the next few weeks

[scotsman1948]

i'm done. i will not respond any more to your posts

 

[jta4437]

Wieland was 21 in AA last year and he threw a no-hitter. He hits about 90 on the gun as far as I can tell. Sometimes can get a bit more. In reality he is going to be an upper 80's offspeed pitcher.

Erlin doesn't appear to have quite the upside as Wieland based on the stuff I've read. He is a tad younger than Wieland and his fastball velocity is upper 80's. Depending upon whose scouting report you read he has a great curveball and good control to great control.

Neither player has elite level tools and I seriously doubt that either have any where close to the ceiling that Tom Glavine had and neither will have close to the career either. Glavine was low to mid 90's when he started out and had great control of all of his pitches. These guys are starting out with upper 80's to very low 90's. Not the same thing at all especially when guys usually lose 2 or 3 mph after they've been in the majors a couple of seasons. Especially these "pitchability" guys.

Now if they have success. It is great. I see their upside being more Ted Lillyish rather than Glavine. And lets be real about it, Lilly is one of the very, very few who has succeeded with basically just a curve ball. I personally think the Rangers traded away a couple of guys who have no margin for error.

Incorrect just a bit on their velocities: Wieland was low 90s topping out at 93

Erlin was usually low 90s, and sometimes high 80s, topping out around 91

Pitchability edge to Erlin, given his youth

and Wieland based on his superior fastball at this point

 

[Ginger]

JTA its an opinion; however, but from what I've learned about these scouting reports throughout the years is that you just throw out the top number instantly. He touches 93 but most likely sits at 90 or 91 though the reports I read said 88-93.

Erlin was the higher rated prospect going into last season but I don't give any credence to that #5 that Sickels gave him. I have not ever read that he can actually get 91. One report said that they believed he could get it. That is a huge difference. I seriously doubt he can get it if they've never actually clocked it.

I do not believe there is any real difference in ages between the two. One is 22 and the other is 21. We aren't talking about a 25 year old in AA. Both are young enough to be quality prospects. However, from what I've learned watching MLB over the years is that Wieland is the superior prospect because he has an edge in fastball velocity.

I throw all of that other crap out the window though. Zito was great when he could hit 91-93 on a consistent basis and was still pretty good when he could hit 88 or 89. Once that fastball velocity fell to 85 or less then he was toast. Neither of these kids have a better curve and Zito and without a quality fastball they'll struggle at the MLB level even if they had an 80 curve.

Honestly, I don't care if either succeed or not in MLB. They don't play in Texas any more and I feel that neither are the kind of pitcher that the Rangers want even if they do succeed. Rangers philosophy seems to be all about power arms which I am quite alright with. Power arms can make mistakes and do alright while finesse guys get their mistakes crushed at a greater frequency. They just have no margin for error. Maybe in San Diego they'll be alright but in this park I don't know.

 

[Al Falfa]

JTA its an opinion; however, but from what I've learned about these scouting reports throughout the years is that you just throw out the top number instantly. He touches 93 but most likely sits at 90 or 91 though the reports I read said 88-93.

Erlin was the higher rated prospect going into last season but I don't give any credence to that #5 that Sickels gave him. I have not ever read that he can actually get 91. One report said that they believed he could get it. That is a huge difference. I seriously doubt he can get it if they've never actually clocked it.

I do not believe there is any real difference in ages between the two. One is 22 and the other is 21. We aren't talking about a 25 year old in AA. Both are young enough to be quality prospects. However, from what I've learned watching MLB over the years is that Wieland is the superior prospect because he has an edge in fastball velocity.

I throw all of that other crap out the window though. Zito was great when he could hit 91-93 on a consistent basis and was still pretty good when he could hit 88 or 89. Once that fastball velocity fell to 85 or less then he was toast. Neither of these kids have a better curve and Zito and without a quality fastball they'll struggle at the MLB level even if they had an 80 curve.

Honestly, I don't care if either succeed or not in MLB. They don't play in Texas any more and I feel that neither are the kind of pitcher that the Rangers want even if they do succeed. Rangers philosophy seems to be all about power arms which I am quite alright with. Power arms can make mistakes and do alright while finesse guys get their mistakes crushed at a greater frequency. They just have no margin for error. Maybe in San Diego they'll be alright but in this park I don't know.

I realize that I'm in the minority on this, but whatever these guys may have or do in the future is debatable. Right now they are considered above average talents for obvious reasons. Both have done well. I have no problem in dealing talent for talent, but trading this type of talent for an 8th inning set up guy..a relief pitcher..doesn't and never has made sense to me. And after seeing Adams pitch for two months I still think there were better ways to use that talent. JMO

 

[romeo212000]

You're entitled to your opinion of course. I disagree though. I really don't see either of these guys being a huge success in the bigs and Texas desperately needed a solid set up pitcher for Feliz. Without Adams I do not believe Texas would have gone to the WS. You say relief pitcher in a condescending manner. Well relief pitching was Texas big chink in the armor and relief pitching got them to the WS.

 

[scotsman1948]

A 6-3, 175 pound 21-year-old right-hander, Wieland works comfortably at 89-92 MPH and has been clocked as high as 94 MPH this year. He already has a very good, plus curveball, and his changeup has above-average moments. His command and control are exceptional, and his statistical performance this year is outstanding: a combined 1.80 ERA with a 132/15 K/BB in 130 innings, with 113 hits allowed. He tends to be a fly ball type, but would fit well in the San Diego environment.

Wieland projects as a sound number three starter. Robbie Erlin is a fine prospect as well, and I think the Padres did well with this trade.

Wieland would have had problems in Texas being a flyball pitcher. would he have done good here is anyone's call and i personally think that he would have had trouble here.


The Rangers have a lot of young arms in the majors and on the farm. Erlin and Wieland were two of the better ones, but they weren't high-ceiling, game-changing type arms. They are guys who look like they should have nice, solid major league careers, and who will benefit from being in San Diego, but are mid-rotation starters. The Rangers gave up guys who will probably out-WAR Adams over the course of their careers, but given the stable of arms in the system, they are pitchers the Rangers can afford to part with in order to shore up their chances of winning this year and next.

 

[Al Falfa]

You're entitled to your opinion of course. I disagree though. I really don't see either of these guys being a huge success in the bigs and Texas desperately needed a solid set up pitcher for Feliz. Without Adams I do not believe Texas would have gone to the WS. You say relief pitcher in a condescending manner. Well relief pitching was Texas big chink in the armor and relief pitching got them to the WS.

If I recall correctly you said both Uehara and Adams would put Texas in the WS before ever seeing either pitch here. So I'm not surprised by your comments. Trying to read something such as condesending into comments left on a message board is at best guess work. I have no idea where you came up with that notion.

 

[Al Falfa]

A 6-3, 175 pound 21-year-old right-hander, Wieland works comfortably at 89-92 MPH and has been clocked as high as 94 MPH this year. He already has a very good, plus curveball, and his changeup has above-average moments. His command and control are exceptional, and his statistical performance this year is outstanding: a combined 1.80 ERA with a 132/15 K/BB in 130 innings, with 113 hits allowed. He tends to be a fly ball type, but would fit well in the San Diego environment.

Wieland projects as a sound number three starter. Robbie Erlin is a fine prospect as well, and I think the Padres did well with this trade.

Wieland would have had problems in Texas being a flyball pitcher. would he have done good here is anyone's call and i personally think that he would have had trouble here.


The Rangers have a lot of young arms in the majors and on the farm. Erlin and Wieland were two of the better ones, but they weren't high-ceiling, game-changing type arms. They are guys who look like they should have nice, solid major league careers, and who will benefit from being in San Diego, but are mid-rotation starters. The Rangers gave up guys who will probably out-WAR Adams over the course of their careers, but given the stable of arms in the system, they are pitchers the Rangers can afford to part with in order to shore up their chances of winning this year and next.

Shoot, I can do that....
I project both Erlin and Wieland will probably be top of the rotation starters, perennial 20 game winners in the future and make it to the HOF in their first year of eligibility.
The reality is that nobody knows what the future holds for either of these guys. I sure don't and all I'm saying is that I wouldn't have given up what the Rangers did to get Adams and the notion that they wouldn't have made the WS without him is wishful thinking.

 

[scotsman1948]

getting 2 quality relievers like Adams & Uehara, giving up Wieland & Erlin, and still having a prospect list of pitchers like Ramirez, D. Perez, M. Perez, Buckel, Ross, Mendez, Grimm, Lamb, Matthews, Luke Jackson, J. Miller, West, De Los Santos And Loux in our top 20 prospects seems like a no-brainer to me.

and having Holland, Feliz, Ogando & Harrison makes the future look pretty damn good

 

[scotsman1948]

oh i forgot one in Scheppers

 

[scotsman1948]

getting 2 quality relievers like Adams & Uehara, giving up Wieland & Erlin, and still having a prospect list of pitchers like Ramirez, D. Perez, M. Perez, Buckel, Ross, Mendez, Grimm, Lamb, Matthews, Luke Jackson, J. Miller, West, De Los Santos And Loux in our top 20 prospects seems like a no-brainer to me.

and having Holland, Feliz, Ogando & Harrison makes the future look pretty damn good

meant to say top 25

 

[jta4437]

oh i forgot one in Scheppers

I'm pretty much done with Scheppers, he's a reliever at best, he won't be a ML starting pitcher

 

[scotsman1948]

I'm pretty much done with Scheppers, he's a reliever at best, he won't be a ML starting pitcher

several others on that list will be relievers in my book

 

[jta4437]

I see Lamb, Matthews, J. Miller, and West ending up relievers

 

[scotsman1948]

I see Lamb, Matthews, J. Miller, and West ending up relievers

i had West & Miller on my list too and i could include Lamb & Matthews

 

[Al Falfa]

meant to say top 25

Do a top 25 of all time and you can count on one hand the number of Rangers pitching prospects that had the ability and pitch command to post the K/BB ratios that either Erlin or Wieland did for a like number of innings.

 

[guitarmy21b]

Question out of curiosity, how do you all know so much about the guys on the farm? How are you able to watch them? I'd like to follow the prospects more closely but don't really know how. I plan on going to a lot of Express games next spring because I only live about 45 minutes away.

 

[jta4437]

Question out of curiosity, how do you all know so much about the guys on the farm? How are you able to watch them? I'd like to follow the prospects more closely but don't really know how. I plan on going to a lot of Express games next spring because I only live about 45 minutes away.

Just reading what people write mostly, BBTIA, Newberg, etc...

 

[guitarmy21b]

I'm curious to know what makes Profar so great to these scouts. At 5'11 165, I doubt he'll have any power in the bigs. He has 38 errors in 177 games, and his numbers show he's a good but not phenomenal base stealer. The most intriguing stat about him is his 65 walks last season and .390 OBP. That's amazing for an 18 year old. Great plate discipline is something you generally either have or you don't.

 

[jta4437]

I'm curious to know what makes Profar so great to these scouts. At 5'11 165, I doubt he'll have any power in the bigs. He has 38 errors in 177 games, and his numbers show he's a good but not phenomenal base stealer. The most intriguing stat about him is his 65 walks last season and .390 OBP. That's amazing for an 18 year old. Great plate discipline is something you generally either have or you don't.

Kid has gap power now, and given time to grow into his body could generate a decent HR swing, errors are common for a kid this young

His good eye at the plate will only benefot him in the long run