The NBA rookies Thread

[knowyourenemy]

Time for Lauri Markkanen to join ROY discussion.

He's having a very good year so far. Mostly points and rebounds, but that's more than a lot of guys are doing.

 

[knowyourenemy]

So, Wall going for 40?

Stfu....Lavar!!

I think this narrative of the team "rallying around" Lonzo is kind of ridiculous. They act like he suffered some sort of catastrophic loss or was physically attacked. But whatever they've got to do to get themselves up for the game.

 

[knowyourenemy]

If I had to rank the rookies so far, which admittedly is way too early, I think it'd be:

1. Ben Simmons -- 4 double doubles & 1 triple double, he leads all rookies in PPG, RPG, is second in APG and FTA, and has the highest FG% of any rookie with more than 10 FGA per game. He's got a sizable advantage over the other rookies so far . . . but we're only 4 games in.

2. De'Aaron Fox -- 3rd in PPG and 4th in APG, Fox is scoring better than anyone probably expected him to do so out of the gate, including 45.6% from the field, 40% from 3, and 85.7% from the line.

3. Lauri Markkanen -- Markkanen might be built for the modern NBA. 2nd in PPG and 3rd in RPG among rookies, the 7-foot sharpshooter is hitting 45.5% of his 3PA on an impressive volume of 7.3 attempts per game. So far, he is making virtually twice as many 3-pointers as any other rookie.

4. Jayson Tatum -- 4th in PPG and 4th in RPG, Tatum so far has lived up to the hype of his polished offensive skillset. Shooting 47.6% from the field and 45.5% from 3, he's helped fill the void left by Gordon Hayward's injury and some of the other players who departed Boston in the offseason. He probably will not lead the rookies in any statistical category, but he's likely to quietly put up good numbers all season and his team has the best chance of making any noise during the season and postseason, which means he will get chances to showcase his abilities.

5. Lonzo Ball -- 1st in APG, 2nd in RPG, and 6th in PPG, Ball is putting up very good total numbers so far -- but his points totals are bolstered by 1 big game and his shooting percentages have been bad. If he improves his shooting percentages, he has the best chance of unseating Simmons.

Honorable mentions: Dennis Smith, Kyle Kuzma, Mike James, John Collins

 

[Mecca]

If I had to rank the rookies so far, which admittedly is way too early, I think it'd be:

1. Ben Simmons -- 4 double doubles & 1 triple double, he leads all rookies in PPG, RPG, is second in APG and FTA, and has the highest FG% of any rookie with more than 10 FGA per game. He's got a sizable advantage over the other rookies so far . . . but we're only 4 games in.

2. De'Aaron Fox -- 3rd in PPG and 4th in APG, Fox is scoring better than anyone probably expected him to do so out of the gate, including 45.6% from the field, 40% from 3, and 85.7% from the line.

3. Lauri Markkanen -- Markkanen might be built for the modern NBA. 2nd in PPG and 3rd in RPG among rookies, the 7-foot sharpshooter is hitting 45.5% of his 3PA on an impressive volume of 7.3 attempts per game. So far, he is making virtually twice as many 3-pointers as any other rookie.

4. Jayson Tatum -- 4th in PPG and 4th in RPG, Tatum so far has lived up to the hype of his polished offensive skillset. Shooting 47.6% from the field and 45.5% from 3, he's helped fill the void left by Gordon Hayward's injury and some of the other players who departed Boston in the offseason. He probably will not lead the rookies in any statistical category, but he's likely to quietly put up good numbers all season and his team has the best chance of making any noise during the season and postseason, which means he will get chances to showcase his abilities.

5. Lonzo Ball -- 1st in APG, 2nd in RPG, and 6th in PPG, Ball is putting up very good total numbers so far -- but his points totals are bolstered by 1 big game and his shooting percentages have been bad. If he improves his shooting percentages, he has the best chance of unseating Simmons.

Honorable mentions: Dennis Smith, Kyle Kuzma, Mike James, John Collins

Don't sleep on Dillon Brooks, Grizzly.

I don't know if I agree with the order. But, definitely with the top five names.

In fairness, I have only seen the Kid from Chicago once and that was yesterday.

Tatum could clearly put up bigger numbers. But, he is playing Team ball, like he should.

I understand that Lonzo takes a hit due efficiency.

But, 5th?

I don't even know who I'd drop to raise him up.

But, I had a visceral response when I saw him 5th.

Could be homeritis.

Go Bruins!!!

 

[knowyourenemy]

Don't sleep on Dillon Brooks, Grizzly.

I don't know if I agree with the order. But, definitely with the top five names.

In fairness, I have only seen the Kid from Chicago once and that was yesterday.

Tatum could clearly put up bigger numbers. But, he is playing Team ball, like he should.

I understand that Lonzo takes a hit due efficiency.

But, 5th?

All of the guys above him are more efficient, scoring more points per game, and have another statistical category that they're pretty good in (Markkanen at rebounds, Fox at assists, and Tatum at rebounds). A few games where Lonzo is more efficient and he'd jump to either #2 or #1. But we haven't seen that yet. He's had two brutally bad shooting nights and one good night where he scored a lot on high volume. The biggest shortcoming in my analysis is that I didn't factor defense in at all, which I'm assuming would hurt Markkanen but maybe not the other guys so much and I'm not sure that would really help Lonzo much.

 

[flyerhawk]

I understand that Lonzo takes a hit due efficiency.

But, 5th?

I don't even know who I'd drop to raise him up.

But, I had a visceral response when I saw him 5th.

Could be homeritis.

Go Bruins!!!

He's shooting 35% from the field. He's shooting 21% in non-Suns related basketball. It's only 3 games so no reason to be that worried about it right now but if you are giving a leaderboard, I don't think Ball really should be in the top 5. Smith should there before him.

 

[knowyourenemy]

He's shooting 35% from the field. He's shooting 21% in non-Suns related basketball. It's only 3 games so no reason to be that worried about it right now but if you are giving a leaderboard, I don't think Ball really should be in the top 5. Smith should there before him.

Smith's percentage are bad too. I'd love to but I can't put him above Ball right now, plus he's been hurt.

 

[Mecca]

He's shooting 35% from the field. He's shooting 21% in non-Suns related basketball. It's only 3 games so no reason to be that worried about it right now but if you are giving a leaderboard, I don't think Ball really should be in the top 5. Smith should there before him.

Agree.

 

[Mecca]

Smith's percentage are bad too. I'd love to but I can't put him above Ball right now, plus he's been hurt.

I hope we don't see the Westbrook version of Wall tonight.

If he plays within himself and D's up, Lonzo's percentages may plummet further or he will go back to being a reluctant shooter.

 

[knowyourenemy]

If anyone, I'd probably put John Collins in the top 5 over Lonzo, but Collins is only playing 19 minutes per game and I've already got a reputation, deservedly so, of being a Lakers hater.

 

[knowyourenemy]

I hope we don't see the Westbrook version of Wall tonight.

If he plays within himself and D's up, Lonzo's percentages may plummet further or he will go back to being a reluctant shooter.

He's a better defender than what he's exhibited so far this year.

The Wizards need to take a step forward in 17-18. With Hayward going down, they should be one of the top 2 seeds in the East. It all depends on Wall so we'll see if he can put it together.

 

[Mecca]

He's a better defender than what he's exhibited so far this year.

The Wizards need to take a step forward in 17-18. With Hayward going down, they should be one of the top 2 seeds in the East. It all depends on Wall so we'll see if he can put it together.

He is one of the most jealous hearted Dude's I have ever seen.

Jealous of what other Dude's sign for * Reggie Jackson *

Jealous of what teammates sign for * Bradley Beal *

Great pg if he plays within himself.

But, that shit he did against Philly?

Stop it.

He saw all the shine Westbrook got for heroballing, all the hype Simmons, Embiid receive and decided the perfect thing to do in game 1 was to shoot the ball 28 fricking times.

.....and he only made 10.

He has weapons. He should use them instead of getting caught up in individual battles.

I am a huge Wall fan and pray that game was an anomaly.

 

[Mecca]

Fultz out 3 games after cortisone shot.

Good.

 

[shopson67]

Fultz out 3 games after cortisone shot.

Good.

Let's make it 3 months and let the kid get healthy.

 

[knowyourenemy]

Let's make it 3 months and let the kid get healthy.

Can't imagine it's only 3 games. 3 games puts us at a week from now, so I'm guessing they've decided he'll miss at least a week and then they'll re-evaluate in a week.

 

[shopson67]

I've already got a reputation, deservedly so, of being a Lakers hater.

Well you did rank this: 15 pts (.456), 5 ast, 5 reb
above this: 13.3 pts (.348), 8.7 ast, 9.3 reb, starting

 

[Mecca]

Let's make it 3 months and let the kid get healthy.

MENTALLY and Physically.

They should target Bledsoe.

 

[Mecca]

Can't imagine it's only 3 games. 3 games puts us at a week from now, so I'm guessing they've decided he'll miss at least a week and then they'll re-evaluate in a week.

How many picks do you have next year?

Give the Suns Okafor and a late 1st for Bledsoe.....

Maybe try to steal Len too?

 

[knowyourenemy]

MENTALLY and Physically.

They should target Bledsoe.

How many picks do you have next year?

Give the Suns Okafor and a late 1st for Bledsoe.....

Maybe try to steal Len too?

Call me crazy but I don't want Bledsoe. I'm fine with Redick, TLC, Stauskas, and Bayless filling the void until Fultz is healthy. We won't trade our rights to the Lakers pick (it goes to Boston if it lands 2-5) and I'm not sure we'd be willing to trade our own pick (thought that will hopefully end up being a mid-to-late first). I don't want to lock up $15 million next year.

Seeing as he's made it clear that he wants to be traded, I don't think anyone should offer Phoenix a first rounder unless it's heavily protected.

 

[knowyourenemy]

Well you did rank this: 15 pts (.456), 5 ast, 5 reb
above this: 13.3 pts (.348), 8.7 ast, 9.3 reb, starting

Player Comparison Finder: Lonzo Ball (through 2017-18) vs. De'Aaron Fox (through 2017-18) | Basketball-Reference.com

I don't know how you can look at Ball's performances and say he's been better than Fox. Maybe if you're a Lakers fan. Fox have been way better scoring than Ball in every possible category (FG%, 3P%, FTM, FT%, TS%, EFG%) and has been able to contribute on the boards. He's also got a better A/TO ratio, which coupled with the dispariteis in FG% indicates to me that he may have fewer assists but he's also hurting his team less than Lonzo is. He's also rated better than Lonzo in Box Plus-Minus, Player Efficiency Rating, and has a higher offensive rating and the same defensive rating.

Fox is playing 7 fewer minutes per game, which indicates that the rebound and assist category would tighten up and his PPG lead would only lengthen if he were to play more minutes (per 36, the numbers would look like 19.8, 6.6, and 6.6 against Ball's 14.0, 9.8, and 9.1). The flipside is that perhaps that contributes to Ball's poor efficiency numbers and Fox's superior efficiency numbers. And that may well be the case, but we have no way of knowing that. (For an example, take a look at Andrew Wiggins who is averaging a career low in MPG but whose offensive efficiency has improved so far this year. Though sadly, Wiggins is still a net-negative player.)

Bottom line: Ball has been good in some areas but so far has not been good enough overall to warrant ranking him ahead of the 4 guys I listed above him.

That being said, it's only a few games in. It will be interesting to see how the rest of the season plays out.