State of the Team

[calsnowskier]

If they can't work out a long term deal, gotta wonder if maybe the off-season of '18 would be a more appropriate time to think about it, depending on how the team performs.

That's actually what I have been thinking as well. He is coming off the injury, so he may need the entire season (past the trade deadlines) in order to build back his value.

Again, either way, it ain't happening.

Then again, how many of us expected Matty to get traded? And that it would end up being one of the better trades in franchise history.

 

[lasportzphan]

We are all surprised at how bad this team has played. It was like the entire roster aged 5 years during the ASB last year. The drop was pretty steep.

Your Dodgers look pretty good this year. Can't say I'm rooting for them but I wouldn't be surprised if they go deep in the playoffs this year.

Our starting pitching is fragile.... I suspect a trade is in order for a #2 or #3 starter to bolster the playoff rotation.

 

[1phlapdown]

Our starting pitching is fragile.... I suspect a trade is in order for a #2 or #3 starter to bolster the playoff rotation.

So you remember Maeda's disappearing act at the end of last year don't you?

 

[calsnowskier]

Our starting pitching is fragile.... I suspect a trade is in order for a #2 or #3 starter to bolster the playoff rotation.

How serious is Uriah's arm issue? I noticed he went under the knife (or us about to)...

 

[lasportzphan]

How serious is Uriah's arm issue? I noticed he went under the knife (or us about to)...

It's not good.... it's typically an injury due to "wear and tear." However, the Dodgers are suggesting that this was an acute incident that created the problem (one pitch) and not due to wear and tear. 5 significant major league pitchers have undergone the surgery and 4 achieved respectability. We will see....

 

[Pattersonca65]

Hank says 0% chance Giants trade Bumgarner. I got ripped for bringing up the question, but that's Twitter for you.

I read Bumgarner, Crawford, and Posey are the untouchables and won't be traded

 

[SFGRTB]

How serious is Uriah's arm issue? I noticed he went under the knife (or us about to)...

The list of pitchers who underwent this operation is not a pretty sight.

Chris Young
Johan Santana
Mark Prior
Chien-Ming Wang
Rich Harden
Dallas Braden

Really feel bad for the kid. The Dodgers to sound optimistic though, that this injury wasn't on the level of those guys. Hopefully he has a full recovery.

 

[lasportzphan]

So you remember Maeda's disappearing act at the end of last year don't you?

And it was not a surprise. Maeda signed a deal that was heavy on incentives because there were endurance/arm concerns. Surprised the union let the Dodgers get away with it. If the Dodgers had Grienke, I'd say we are the front runners. But without a dependable arm, we will suffer from the same playoff woes which requires Kershaw to do too much.

 

[calsnowskier]

The list of pitchers who underwent this operation is not a pretty sight.

Chris Young
Johan Santana
Mark Prior
Chien-Ming Wang
Rich Harden
Dallas Braden

Really feel bad for the kid. The Dodgers to sound optimistic though, that this injury wasn't on the level of those guys. Hopefully he has a full recovery.

All those guys are known for coming on strong and having very abbreviated careers.

 

[calsnowskier]

And it was not a surprise. Maeda signed a deal that was heavy on incentives because there were endurance/arm concerns. Surprised the union let the Dodgers get away with it. If the Dodgers had Grienke, I'd say we are the front runners. But without a dependable arm, we will suffer from the same playoff woes which requires Kershaw to do too much.

A real stud pitcher can carry his team through the playoffs....

Just saying...

 

[lasportzphan]

A real stud pitcher can carry his team through the playoffs....

Just saying...

I see what you're driving at and you guys have lived it with Bumgarner. Kershaw has pitched some post season gems and other starts have been incredibly atypical. I tend to subscribe to the theory that the playoffs are a small sample size and do not define Kershaw. He's an all time great regardless. I'm also a believer that the Dodgers ask too much of him. Short rest, pushing pitch counts all the while he has carried the Dodgers to division championships with the same overworked strategy.

He needs help and at 29 it is time to take the load off so he can pitch on rest.

 

[lasportzphan]

A real stud pitcher can carry his team through the playoffs....

Just saying...

The History of Clayton Kershaw’s Postseason Bullpens | FanGraphs Baseball

This FanGraphs article sums up my sentiments pretty well.... Kershaw has had some bad playoff appearances (small sample size), yet his bullpen has let him down well beyond the average for inherited runners and the management stretches him too far on pitch count and innings in combination with short rest. Bumgarner has never pitched in consecutive post seasons until last year. Between rings, the Giants failed to make the playoffs. Kershaw has been in the playoffs for the majority of his career.

Am I seeking excuses? Probably. Is Kershaw one of the greatest of all time? Yes. Do the playoffs change my opinion of his greatness? No.

 

[lasportzphan]

A real stud pitcher can carry his team through the playoffs....

Just saying...

And do not look at Bumgarner's 2012 playoff numbers or it ruins your narrative. He was fallible. Okay, I will stop now. Thank you for beating the Rockies. Your team was upgraded from dog shit to horse shit.

 

[calsnowskier]

I was just giving you shit. While I do believe that the playoffs are a different beast, I also believe that 'Shaw has gotten a bad rap due to bad managing/kennel help.

But what Bum did in '14 was the most amazing individual performance I have ever seen or will likely ever see. And that was at the end of a long season with the entire sports world looking right at him. He even gave that Chevy guy a stroke (and stuff), it was so incredible.

 

[msgkings322]

I read Bumgarner, Crawford, and Posey are the untouchables and won't be traded

Yep, I would say those 3 are the only ones for sure not going anywhere.

 

[SFGRTB]

Yep, I would say those 3 are the only ones for sure not going anywhere.

Larry Bear, Bobby Evans, the beat writers are all indicating that nothing is going to happen. There may some vets traded (Cueto, Nunez, bullpen guys), but that's about it and they are expecting to compete in 2018. Not going full rebuild.

 

[calsnowskier]

Larry Bear, Bobby Evans, the beat writers are all indicating that nothing is going to happen. There may some vets traded (Cueto, Nunez, bullpen guys), but that's about it and they are expecting to compete in 2018. Not going full rebuild.

This is probably the smart play.

But Doc has a series of writeups analysing the fall and proposing some potential causes. One of his theories is BABIP bad luck (I am not a subscriber of this theory) and another is the juiced ball since mid-'15 (this is a very interesting theory). Basically, the .Giants strategy (strong D and pitching with pesky contact hitters) only works in a fair game. In a jacked game with everything leaving the yard, that strategy just doesn't work.

If thus second theory holds water, the Giants will need to totally rebuild the entire system and change their entire way of thinking (and adjusting the park is on the table).

 

[LHG]

This is probably the smart play.

But Doc has a series of writeups analysing the fall and proposing some potential causes. One of his theories is BABIP bad luck (I am not a subscriber of this theory) and another is the juiced ball since mid-'15 (this is a very interesting theory). Basically, the .Giants strategy (strong D and pitching with pesky contact hitters) only works in a fair game. In a jacked game with everything leaving the yard, that strategy just doesn't work.

If thus second theory holds water, the Giants will need to totally rebuild the entire system and change their entire way of thinking (and adjusting the park is on the table).

If the juiced ball theory holds water, unless the balls are not juiced in 2018, I don't see how the team can become competitive in 2018. Do they plan on signing a bunch of power hitters or clone Jose Canseco a few times in the offseason?

 

[calsnowskier]

If the juiced ball theory holds water, unless the balls are not juiced in 2018, I don't see how the team can become competitive in 2018. Do they plan on signing a bunch of power hitters or clone Jose Canseco a few times in the offseason?

That is the fear. The game at its core has potentially been changed so "small ball", or "money ball" is no longer relevant.

 

[LHG]

That is the fear. The game at its core has potentially been changed so "small ball", or "money ball" is no longer relevant.

It is almost like MLB waited to see how the Yankees would re-build their roster and adjusted accordingly.