Stafford, Carr & Cousins

[SoCalWizFan]

First, we will NEVER know how much of a difference the course of some of these player might have been had those in charge simply did the right thing in NOT falling to so called "Pressure."

That to me is the biggest point in all of this.....some call it, as you have, a "luxury" or "pressure" while I call it desperation/ impatience. They even go so far, again as you have, to point out the "uniqueness" of the Brady and Rogers situations (Brady sat too). Given the results, maybe the real pressure must be in employing patience and not rushing towards the "Now" mentality. If Rogers and Brady types are the end result, maybe they all should strive to be "unique."

No - I am not denying that any of that is true, but this is the reality of the situation. The NFL is primarily driven by $$ & that being the case these high picks are almost always going to be rushed (perhaps against better judgment). That also means that the young QBs are going to have to deal w/ it & do the best they can & not use this as an excuse. Someone like Manzell or RG3 can't cry about this when guys like Wilson thrive in the same situation. They just need to deal with it (fair or not). None of this is changing anytime soon (& BTW Brady only made it due to a fluke set of circumstances - not due to great planning by the Pats).

 

[Stymietee]

No - I am not denying that any of that is true, but this is the reality of the situation. The NFL is primarily driven by $$ & that being the case these high picks are almost always going to be rushed (perhaps against better judgment). That also means that the young QBs are going to have to deal w/ it & do the best they can & not use this as an excuse. Someone like Manzell or RG3 can't cry about this when guys like Wilson thrive in the same situation. They just need to deal with it (fair or not). None of this is changing anytime soon (& BTW Brady only made it due to a fluke set of circumstances - not due to great planning by the Pats).

NFL QB's are savings bonds and not ready cash. Cash them in too quickly and there is zero return on investment. Sure you're going to have some money in your pocket, but that's short range planning, the biggest and more guaranteed return on investment REQUIRES patience.

Notice that I have yet to comment on RG3, there's a reason for that too. Egomaniacal people like him and Manzell cannot be given leeway that feeds their already overblown sense of self. If, you're going to invest in them, you must have a system in place that tempers the ego and teaches the tools that are necessary to succeed.

Truthfully, Griffin didn't pay the cost to become a member of this team, Allen and Snyder did. They decided to NOT have a QB coach in place, they hired a HC who was more interested in appeasing them than being what he had worked his entire life to become. Is it REALLY an excuse that young QB's don't know what they don't know? I think NOT!!

The difference between Wilson, Manzell and Griffin beyond character, is Seattle built a team that allowed their QB to play within limits that they placed upon him. Washington and Cleveland both whores, born of desperation, wanted Griffin and Manzell to lead them to something, without a clue as to how to get to that unknown place. It certainly wasn't, consistent playoffs, or SB's, that would require a plan, a system and a willingness to be patient with such a high investment.

 

[Sportster 72]

I agree that most college QBs are best served with a year or two learning how to be an NFL QB. We all know that isn't always going to be the case with highly drafted QBs. Unless they are ready (and most aren't) they should get a chance to learn.

We have heard Cousins say (Gruden too) that he knows so much more now and is more ready to run the offense and can do more things. There is no substitute for experience.

 

[Breed]

It should be obvious that the three deals are connected. I think Carr is the one I'd pick over the other two. But I was thinking about Stafford yesterday. He and Matt Ryan going into last year were kind of considered pretty good but just not quite good enough QBs, kind of where many feel Kirk is. Then last year both of those guys took giant leaps, Ryan finally broke through in the playoffs and should have won a Super Bowl and all year people were including Stafford in the MVP conversation. Why can't Kirk do the same?

He can.......probably, but......though I hope your ultimate goal for Kirk. Is not for him to guide the Skins to a 19 point lead with a quarter left to play in the SB. Than he and every other Redskins player and coach collectively have the biggest brain fart in SB history to choke that 19 point lead and the game away.

As for Stafford taking a giant leap last year. I dunno, I recall that MVP talk as well for a bit last year. In the end though. Neither Stafford's stats or his w/l record look all that giant leapy to me compared to other years.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

He can.......probably, but......though I hope your ultimate goal for Kirk. Is not for him to guide the Skins to a 19 point lead with a quarter left to play in the SB. Than he and every other Redskins player and coach collectively have the biggest brain fart in SB history to choke that 19 point lead and the game away.

As for Stafford taking a giant leap last year. I dunno, I recall that MVP talk as well for a bit last year. In the end though. Neither Stafford's stats or his w/l record look all that giant leapy to me compared to other years.

To be fair on this one Stafford inherited a team that didn't win a single game, guided them to their first playoff appearance in ages (& has been there several times), has never had a decent running attack & more recently has not had defensive support. This is a case where - sure - Stafford can get better, but you have to look at the entire team.

I also believe - just like the Redskins - his salary will not prevent the team from making other moves. A decent organization can plan for having talent both at QB & other positions even if the QB is make top $$. Poor organizations do poorly regardless.

 

[skinsdad62]

but the issue is no one looks at the entire team when it comes to KC . he has to ride in on his white horse and save the day everytime or he is a bust

KC is a teir 2 qb right around the 10-12 range as far as talent . he is entering year 3 . the assumption by quite a few ABC'rs is he will fail , he will take a step back and not once do they say he could put up the same numbers and do well .

the talent on this team is 7-9 wins . we need more talent especially on defense and in the run game

the cost is foolish because the market dictates high cost and the skins set the market with these goofball tags

the same group whining about cost now are the same bunch who whined about proving it first 2 years ago . and when they were told the cost would go up they were ok with it . now the front running deceivers want to back track because their assessment of him was flat out wrong

i dont want to hear about cost because this could have been solved twice before at a much much cheaper cost but you didnt have the balls or foresight to see what was going to happen ( the FO )

 

[skinsdad62]

i was rewatching the lions /pats game and i just saw brady make a bone heaeded decision to throw deep into double coverage and he got picked

seems the best is prone to bad decveisions eh dean or is KC the only one that gets beat up on that

 

[Krusheasy]

First, we will NEVER know how much of a difference the course of some of these player might have been had those in charge simply did the right thing in NOT falling to so called "Pressure."

its all a by product of the instant gratification culture we live in ... i call it the "drive through window" culture.

 

[Krusheasy]

i was rewatching the lions /pats game

thinking about purchasing this nfl game pass ... thats a flat $100 or is that only if you already have another service ?

 

[skinsdad62]

thinking about purchasing this nfl game pass ... thats a flat $100 or is that only if you already have another service ?

yeah its a flat 100 but its worth it if you are a film nut like me

 

[countryroads316]

yeah its a flat 100 but its worth it if you are a film nut like me

do you have madden 18 a 15 percent off promo code is in the ps4 game

 

[Sharkinva]

yeah its a flat 100 but its worth it if you are a film nut like me

Also, you dont have to delete your wifes recordings of Dance Moms or Short chicks in LA to record a divisional game to watch later.

"Baby did you delete my show so you could record a Giants game? " Never goes over well.

 

[Manster7588]

Detroit decided not to take the Redskins approach and let Stafford be in the cat bird seat next year as far as demands go. Is stafford any more elite than KC? No. But he was next in line and the price will continually just go up. KC's price just went up because of this. And Rogers has to be just giddy over this. This contract value (and KC's next year) has very little to do with how elite they are and more to do with the fact that there is just a huge scarcity of capable (even if just average) QBs. Its all about supply and demand, folks. if you have a QB that can get you to the playoffs, even if they need a supporting cast around them (which stafford and Cousins both need), you keep him and pay him what the market bears. Because if you can get into the playoffs, anything can happen. Everyone needs to keep in mind what the ultimate goal is. Its not the be the most frugal franchise in the league, but to win a SB. If you don't have a QB, you have no chance to get into the playoffs. And that is step 1 toward putting yourself in a position to win a SB. Stafford and KC have both proven that they can be a QB on a playoff caliber team.

At this rate QB's will soon eat up 50% of the cap, one top QB will have to break this streak saying a QB needs players around him and one player eating large portions of the cap isnt good for anybody. Not sure who that QB will be, but I know who I'd like it to be.

 

[j_y19]

At this rate QB's will soon eat up 50% of the cap, one top QB will have to break this streak saying a QB needs players around him and one player eating large portions of the cap isnt good for anybody. Not sure who that QB will be, but I know who I'd like it to be.

I dont see that happening. There is only one Tom Brady. Every one of these guys is going to take what ever they can get. The owners will just keep raising the cap. Then in the next contract negotiations, the owners will try to implement some sort of governor on QB salaries.

 

[Stymietee]

At this rate QB's will soon eat up 50% of the cap, one top QB will have to break this streak saying a QB needs players around him and one player eating large portions of the cap isnt good for anybody. Not sure who that QB will be, but I know who I'd like it to be.

If it's going to happen it must take effect before the 2020 season ends. There's a 100% guarantee that a strike/lock-out happens after that. Then the question becomes who blinks first. The players who want NFL type player power.....or....the owners who'll insist on reminding them to know their place as property.

 

[Sharkinva]

At this rate QB's will soon eat up 50% of the cap, one top QB will have to break this streak saying a QB needs players around him and one player eating large portions of the cap isnt good for anybody. Not sure who that QB will be, but I know who I'd like it to be.

Actually if you look at the numbers for 2018 and gonig forward, Staffords deal takes up

14.9% to 15.8% of the cap in years 2018-2020. I tossed out 2017 because he is only taking up 9.9%

Carr takes 9.4% to a high of 14% Luck tops out at 14.5% of the cap in his highest respective year.

Hell Cousins ON the franchise tag is taking up 14.3% of the cap this year.

In other words to hit 50% of the cap, a QB would have to be making way upwards of $50M a year, and with the cap set to be $200M in 2020 before any carry over.. I dont see any owner paying a QB $100M per year.

 

[Manster7588]

Actually if you look at the numbers for 2018 and gonig forward, Staffords deal takes up

14.9% to 15.8% of the cap in years 2018-2020. I tossed out 2017 because he is only taking up 9.9%

Carr takes 9.4% to a high of 14% Luck tops out at 14.5% of the cap in his highest respective year.

Hell Cousins ON the franchise tag is taking up 14.3% of the cap this year.

In other words to hit 50% of the cap, a QB would have to be making way upwards of $50M a year, and with the cap set to be $200M in 2020 before any carry over.. I dont see any owner paying a QB $100M per year.

I'm not talking about Stafford making 50% I'm saying unless things change thats the route were traveling.
I don't understand why every new contract must beat the last.

 

[gkekoa]

At this rate QB's will soon eat up 50% of the cap, one top QB will have to break this streak saying a QB needs players around him and one player eating large portions of the cap isnt good for anybody. Not sure who that QB will be, but I know who I'd like it to be.

See Sharks post. It blows your theory out of the water.

 

[gkekoa]

If it's going to happen it must take effect before the 2020 season ends. There's a 100% guarantee that a strike/lock-out happens after that. Then the question becomes who blinks first. The players who want NFL type player power.....or....the owners who'll insist on reminding them to know their place as property.

Really?

Trying to make the players out to be slaves? I never knew a slave could be so rich. Feel free to move Sty and my posts.

 

[Sharkinva]

I'm not talking about Stafford making 50% I'm saying unless things change thats the route were traveling.
I don't understand why every new contract must beat the last.

OH I know where you were headed with this. But logic dictates it will never happen. If you look back, even when Romo got his big payday, he was never more than 14% of the cap.. and that was last year.

And every new contract must be bigger than the last because the cap continues to go up. Part of the CBA says the owners have to spend a certain part of the cap. Better to put those dollars into a player you expect to e around and a major part of your team, than burn it up on one year free agent rentals that bust more often than not.