Reasons Why. Not Excuses.

[BigKen]

Great roundtable discussion on the 'Reasons" why the Patriots have fallen so far with no excuses.

1. Continual 'Lack of Urgency to rebuild the offense.
As often as the media, fans and experts have called out weaknesses over the pst five years Bill Belichick has never responded with the conviction needed to fix obvious problems.

2. Brain Drain on the staff.
At one point, the Patriots had four present day NFL GMs working behind the scenes to scout and constantly build the Patriots. There wer also multiple NFL coaches and assistant coaches on the field. Today they are all elsewhere. Those people challenged BB on draft picks and FA signings. Today everyone tries to do "What Bill Wants."

3. Poor drafting and free agent signings.
A. Never signing the 'best' available free agents on the first day. Constantly picking up leftovers on Thursday, Friday or Saturday.
B. Hoping for a Draft Day Miracle. Mac Jones falling to #15 was not luck. Nobody else saw what they needed for a staring QB. He was the worst of the five 'Best'.
C. Spending badly for overvalued talent. Nelson Agholor and Jonnu Smith. Neither were fits for the Patriots' offensive system.

4. Poor restaffing of the coaching staff. Bill has three of his sons and two of their friends on his staff. BOB was a safe hire because he was familiar with BB and his wants and was someone that BB was comfortable with and could control.

5. Lack of Ownership involvement. Kraft has always believed that Belichick knew what he was doing, no matter what he did. He's never gotten openly involved in any of the on field decisions. That we are aware of. He's always seemed to trust that BB had all of the right answers.

This table has open chairs. Please take one and express your "reasons" for what the Patriots have become.

 

[YankeeRebel]

Great roundtable discussion on the 'Reasons" why the Patriots have fallen so far with no excuses.

1. Continual 'Lack of Urgency to rebuild the offense.
As often as the media, fans and experts have called out weaknesses over the pst five years Bill Belichick has never responded with the conviction needed to fix obvious problems.

2. Brain Drain on the staff.
At one point, the Patriots had four present day NFL GMs working behind the scenes to scout and constantly build the Patriots. There wer also multiple NFL coaches and assistant coaches on the field. Today they are all elsewhere. Those people challenged BB on draft picks and FA signings. Today everyone tries to do "What Bill Wants."

3. Poor drafting and free agent signings.
A. Never signing the 'best' available free agents on the first day. Constantly picking up leftovers on Thursday, Friday or Saturday.
B. Hoping for a Draft Day Miracle. Mac Jones falling to #15 was not luck. Nobody else saw what they needed for a staring QB. He was the worst of the five 'Best'.
C. Spending badly for overvalued talent. Nelson Agholor and Jonnu Smith. Neither were fits for the Patriots' offensive system.

4. Poor restaffing of the coaching staff. Bill has three of his sons and two of their friends on his staff. BOB was a safe hire because he was familiar with BB and his wants and was someone that BB was comfortable with and could control.

5. Lack of Ownership involvement. Kraft has always believed that Belichick knew what he was doing, no matter what he did. He's never gotten openly involved in any of the on field decisions. That we are aware of. He's always seemed to trust that BB had all of the right answers.

This table has open chairs. Please take one and express your "reasons" for what the Patriots have become.

So in a nutshell, we have a shitty GM?

 

[sonnyblack65]

Great roundtable discussion on the 'Reasons" why the Patriots have fallen so far with no excuses.

1. Continual 'Lack of Urgency to rebuild the offense.
As often as the media, fans and experts have called out weaknesses over the pst five years Bill Belichick has never responded with the conviction needed to fix obvious problems.

2. Brain Drain on the staff.
At one point, the Patriots had four present day NFL GMs working behind the scenes to scout and constantly build the Patriots. There wer also multiple NFL coaches and assistant coaches on the field. Today they are all elsewhere. Those people challenged BB on draft picks and FA signings. Today everyone tries to do "What Bill Wants."

3. Poor drafting and free agent signings.
A. Never signing the 'best' available free agents on the first day. Constantly picking up leftovers on Thursday, Friday or Saturday.
B. Hoping for a Draft Day Miracle. Mac Jones falling to #15 was not luck. Nobody else saw what they needed for a staring QB. He was the worst of the five 'Best'.
C. Spending badly for overvalued talent. Nelson Agholor and Jonnu Smith. Neither were fits for the Patriots' offensive system.

4. Poor restaffing of the coaching staff. Bill has three of his sons and two of their friends on his staff. BOB was a safe hire because he was familiar with BB and his wants and was someone that BB was comfortable with and could control.

5. Lack of Ownership involvement. Kraft has always believed that Belichick knew what he was doing, no matter what he did. He's never gotten openly involved in any of the on field decisions. That we are aware of. He's always seemed to trust that BB had all of the right answers.

This table has open chairs. Please take one and express your "reasons" for what the Patriots have become.

I agree with all except 3B, who were the five "best? Think Jets picked the worst Wilson at #2 and not sure about Fields at #11? Mac had a decent rookie season, but with 3 OC's, 0 real weapons and a shiity O line, tough for anybody to succeed. The other 3 Qb's ( Inc Malik) are bums. All cut and nobody wanted BB's trash. I have never seen a starting QB be pulled so many times ,esp at the 2 min warning in a close game, his confidence is shot. My issues with Mac is he is a baby, does the jig when they score and pouts after making a mistake. Also his dirty play on defensive players is lame and childish, guy needs to grow the fuck up, and his going to College coaches and getting their ideas on what's going with the team.

 

[BigKen]

I agree with all except 3B,

Here's the 2021 Quarterback list. Shanahan wanted Mac but Lynch wanted Lance. Think Mac would have had more success with the 49ers??

Trevor Lawrence (1st, Jaguars), Zach Wilson (2nd, Jets) and Trey Lance (3rd, 49ers), Justin Fields (11th, Bears), Mac Jones (15th, Patriots), Kyle Trask (64th, Buccaneers), Kellen Mond (66th, Vikings) and Davis Mills (67th, Texans).

 

[sonnyblack65]

Here's the 2021 Quarterback list. Shanahan wanted Mac but Lynch wanted Lance. Think Mac would have had more success with the 49ers??

Trevor Lawrence (1st, Jaguars), Zach Wilson (2nd, Jets) and Trey Lance (3rd, 49ers), Justin Fields (11th, Bears), Mac Jones (15th, Patriots), Kyle Trask (64th, Buccaneers), Kellen Mond (66th, Vikings) and Davis Mills (67th, Texans).

IMO Mac was the 2nd best QB in the draft and yes he would have succeeded in SF with all those weapons as Shanahan ( offensive minded) as a coach. Mr Irrelevant Brock Purdy is having success there, along with that great D who just added Chase Young , long with Bosa and Warner. Sad to say but Mac had better weapons and coaching at Bama then he has on a NFL team. Like your #4 stated, the nepotism and friend BS is just out of control. We have bottom ranked O, D and ST's., sad from a 2 decade dynasty team

 

[cheerupcharlie]

IMO Mac was the 2nd best QB in the draft and yes he would have succeeded in SF with all those weapons as Shanahan ( offensive minded) as a coach. Mr Irrelevant Brock Purdy is having success there, along with that great D who just added Chase Young , long with Bosa and Warner. Sad to say but Mac had better weapons and coaching at Bama then he has on a NFL team. Like your #4 stated, the nepotism and friend BS is just out of control. We have bottom ranked O, D and ST's., sad from a 2 decade dynasty team

That’s just it. I don’t think any young upcoming coach… offense or defensive would want to work under Belichick. I’m sure he’s very difficult. So he hires his kids… friends… ex Patriots players. What offensive minded coach would want to work here if the Headcoach won’t get you any talent.

 

[Yankee Traveler]

Great roundtable discussion on the 'Reasons" why the Patriots have fallen so far with no excuses.

1. Continual 'Lack of Urgency to rebuild the offense.
As often as the media, fans and experts have called out weaknesses over the pst five years Bill Belichick has never responded with the conviction needed to fix obvious problems.

I disagree. TB left and Bill immediately went out and signed a former MVP. Sure, it didn't work because we got the non MVP Scam. Bill brought in many WR's though the draft and FA. Smith, Henry, Agholor, Bourne, Newton. They were the best TE's available that year, and decent WR's. While trying to manage the cap. They just haven't all panned out. See "3".

2. Brain Drain on the staff.
At one point, the Patriots had four present day NFL GMs working behind the scenes to scout and constantly build the Patriots. There wer also multiple NFL coaches and assistant coaches on the field. Today they are all elsewhere. Those people challenged BB on draft picks and FA signings. Today everyone tries to do "What Bill Wants."

I agree. Brain Drain is real. death by 1000 paper cuts has finally caught up?

3. Poor drafting and free agent signings.
A. Never signing the 'best' available free agents on the first day. Constantly picking up leftovers on Thursday, Friday or Saturday.
B. Hoping for a Draft Day Miracle. Mac Jones falling to #15 was not luck. Nobody else saw what they needed for a staring QB. He was the worst of the five 'Best'.
C. Spending badly for overvalued talent. Nelson Agholor and Jonnu Smith. Neither were fits for the Patriots' offensive system.

I agree...ish.
A. Yes. 100% Picking leftovers on a Thursday, Friday, Saturday...after Memorial day. Best "Value" has long been his mantra.
B. See "1" He picked the best available because he needed to. Any QB worth a fuck was in a contract. Any QB worth half a fuck was in a contract. We already had Scam who wasn't worth a fuck. In hindsight he should have traded that 2021 first round pick for a 2022 first rounder and just carried on with Scam another year.
C. Talent scouts. Maybe position coaching too. They had a number of years late 2000's early 2010's where they couldn't field a decent CB to save their life. They seem to have gotten over that hump, but WR is now the weakest position. Agholor is doing OK in Baltimore, Smith is averaging 5 catches per game at 12 yards per catch. Not bad. So these guys are not bottom feeders.

4. Poor restaffing of the coaching staff. Bill has three of his sons and two of their friends on his staff. BOB was a safe hire because he was familiar with BB and his wants and was someone that BB was comfortable with and could control.

He only has two sons. Did he hire the friends because of his sons? Or as they are all in the business of sports, did he hire two people that were qualified and also had prior relationships with one or both of his sons? They had previous success with BOB and he was available. I seem to remember you being on board with the hire last year. Was it comfortable he could control, previous success under him or the fact that BOB also brought a lot of head coaching and OC experience with him. Those HC's usually don't care to be controlled. At all. Kind of a Type A thing.

5. Lack of Ownership involvement. Kraft has always believed that Belichick knew what he was doing, no matter what he did. He's never gotten openly involved in any of the on field decisions. That we are aware of. He's always seemed to trust that BB had all of the right answers.

Which has led to many years of success. It's a good plan and Kraft should stick with it.

This table has open chairs. Please take one and express your "reasons" for what the Patriots have become.

I do believe the brain drain is a huge part of it. Also the drafting positions.
As I have said before, just a few more throws with accuracy in the Red Zone and they have a completely different record.

 

[Yankee Traveler]

IMO Mac was the 2nd best QB in the draft and yes he would have succeeded in SF with all those weapons as Shanahan ( offensive minded) as a coach. Mr Irrelevant Brock Purdy is having success there, along with that great D who just added Chase Young , long with Bosa and Warner. Sad to say but Mac had better weapons and coaching at Bama then he has on a NFL team. Like your #4 stated, the nepotism and friend BS is just out of control. We have bottom ranked O, D and ST's., sad from a 2 decade dynasty team

Brock Purdy is just a better QB.

The Pats are just a few plays from 1st place in their division. A few plays that Mac threw into the dirt, over the receivers ability to catch or straight into the defenders hands.

 

[sonnyblack65]

Brock Purdy is just a better QB.

The Pats are just a few plays from 1st place in their division. A few plays that Mac threw into the dirt, over the receivers ability to catch or straight into the defenders hands.

Not sure I can agree with you on that, Brock has had some rough outings. Swap out Agholar and Jonnu Smith for Kittles, Aiyuk, and also have the best all round back in the NFL in MCCaffrey. Chef BB has bought the worst groceries , added nothing in the deadline. So his meals taste like shit with all the leftover produce and meat he has bought. Seems like colleges either put out winner or losers. USC, ND , PSU , Texas, etc usually don't put out good NFL QB's , But Bama with Hurts and Tua have been sucessfull. Hurts picked up AJ Brown which we could have had instead of NKeal Harry and drafted Smith. Tua they picked up Hill from KC to add with Waddle and they have 2 very good RB's in Mosert and Achane, BB has handcuffed the kid with his "friends and family" only hire and lets Jakobi walk and brings in JuJu for same money? Forget the GM part, if BB was such a great coach, why does his whole coaching tree suck ass, because he didn't teach them properly or they didn't have a Tom Brady. Great DC , avg coach, Matt Millen type GM

 

[sonnyblack65]

That’s just it. I don’t think any young upcoming coach… offense or defensive would want to work under Belichick. I’m sure he’s very difficult. So he hires his kids… friends… ex Patriots players. What offensive minded coach would want to work here if the Headcoach won’t get you any talent.

Charlie you hit the nail on the head, nobody wants to work for him. Luckily Jerod Mayo played for him, so knows his bs and what he has to put up with. I mean seriously just the fact that he has Joe fucking clueless Judge as the team's assistant HC speaks volumes about his character. 1900's D won games, different rules, etc but in this Millenium offense wins games. He wants to be a defensive genius wasting all the good picks on D and hasn't drafted a good offensive weapon in a long time and wasted 200 mill of Krafts money in FA. When veterans would come here like a Revis or Moss, they wouldn't believe how belittling BB could be towards a TB but he kept the locker room in check. They thought if he takes it and they keep winning, then they will too. You start up with the BS at 2-8 with Pros making millions, he's losing them

 

[Yankee Traveler]

Not sure I can agree with you on that, Brock has had some rough outings. Swap out Agholar and Jonnu Smith for Kittles, Aiyuk, and also have the best all round back in the NFL in MCCaffrey. Chef BB has bought the worst groceries , added nothing in the deadline. So his meals taste like shit with all the leftover produce and meat he has bought. Seems like colleges either put out winner or losers. USC, ND , PSU , Texas, etc usually don't put out good NFL QB's , But Bama with Hurts and Tua have been sucessfull. Hurts picked up AJ Brown which we could have had instead of NKeal Harry and drafted Smith. Tua they picked up Hill from KC to add with Waddle and they have 2 very good RB's in Mosert and Achane, BB has handcuffed the kid with his "friends and family" only hire and lets Jakobi walk and brings in JuJu for same money? Forget the GM part, if BB was such a great coach, why does his whole coaching tree suck ass, because he didn't teach them properly or they didn't have a Tom Brady. Great DC , avg coach, Matt Millen type GM

Oh shit, was Kittles available in Free Agency???
Aiyuk was too?!?!

Or is SonnyB spinning it again?

Worst groceries? C'mon Sonny. You were not singing this tune in '15 '17 or '19 when Bill was bringing in "washed up" vets to have one last go at a SB.
You seem to forget how many 1st round picks Miami has had to build a young talented roster that is getting rookie deal money so they can afford Waddle and Hill.
Before you say Bill coulda had DHop...have you watched a Titans game? That motherfucker is a non participant. Every time he runs down the sideline with a defender right in his pocket between him and the ball and he almost never comes down with the ball. Money well spent by Bill.

 

[Yankee Traveler]

1900's D won games, different rules, etc but in this Millenium offense wins games.

Super Bowl LIII - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

All you need is just a little more offense than the other guy.

Unless of course you have no defense. In which case, you need A LOT more offense.

 

[Dude]

Brock Purdy is just a better QB.

The Pats are just a few plays from 1st place in their division. A few plays that Mac threw into the dirt, over the receivers ability to catch or straight into the defenders hands.

Problem is that they didn’t make those plays, and several of those misses were really bad, the pick 6s I lost count how many. The misses were not highly contested catches, just really bad throws. Defense has not been great, but has given the offense many chances to stay in or win games. The amount of mistakes and penalties … no way you can win like that.

 

[Yankee Traveler]

Problem is that they didn’t make those plays, and several of those misses were really bad, the pick 6s I lost count how many. The misses were not highly contested catches, just really bad throws. Defense has not been great, but has given the offense many chances to stay in or win games. The amount of mistakes and penalties … no way you can win like that.

Yes, the defense, while missing a few core guys, has still kept them in a winable situation. The offense has not done their part, especially when in the red zone because Bill is stubborn and refuses to let Mac throw a catchable ball.

I mean because the game has passed Bill by so Mac throws an INT.

I mean Bill is old and washed up so Mac can't look past his first read.

 

[BigKen]

IMO, as much as we all were excited about Mac dropping to #15 in the 2021 NFL Draft, we failed to consider that 14 teams, four that desperately needed a QB did not pick him. Not that their selections before him were any better. Trevor Lawrence has similar stats but seems to have a higher ceiling, Mac blew him away in 2021 and has fallen like a rock below him.

 

[sonnyblack65]

Oh shit, was Kittles available in Free Agency??? Aiyuk was too?!?! Or is SonnyB spinning it again? Worst groceries? C'mon Sonny. You were not singing this tune in '15 '17 or '19 when Bill was bringing in "washed up" vets to have one last go at a SB. You seem to forget how many 1st round picks Miami has had to build a young talented roster that is getting rookie deal money so they can afford Waddle and Hill. Before you say Bill coulda had DHop...have you watched a Titans game? That motherfucker is a non participant. Every time he runs down the sideline with a defender right in his pocket between him and the ball and he almost never comes down with the ball. Money well spent by Bill.

Are you just dense or still sucking Bill's dick , who the fuck said anything about Kittle Or Ayiuk in FA? Yes BB groceries are the worst and the only reason Pats won the last 3 SB's is because Kraft put his foot down and kept Brady instead of Jimmy G, who lasted a whole 6 Q here, before he got injured and has a brittle bitch his whole career, kudos Magoo eyed BB . So if Bill got his way, Pats would only have 3 Lombardi's and be no different than say a Giants or GB team. Guy makes shit moves during the draft and ever worse in FA. listen to his pressers, imagine a player having to listen to his mumbling and dribble smh.

 

[Yankee Traveler]

Are you just dense or still sucking Bill's dick , who the fuck said anything about Kittle Or Ayiuk in FA?

You said "Swap out Agholar and Jonnu Smith for Kittles, Aiyuk, and also have the best all round back in the NFL in MCCaffrey. Chef BB has bought the worst groceries..." Bill bought best available.

Yes BB groceries are the worst and the only reason Pats won the last 3 SB's is because Kraft put his foot down and kept Brady instead of Jimmy G,

I have read that theory many times. Never any proof though. Brady said himself in Man in the Arena that Jimmy G lit a fire under him to prove that he was still the best. Man in the Arena. A show with Tom about Tom and get this...BY Tom. I believe him.

who lasted a whole 6 Q here, before he got injured and has a brittle bitch his whole career, kudos Magoo eyed BB .

Is Jimmy G the first player to get bitten by the injury bug? He was good enough when fresh to spook Tom. He got injured. And traded...Coincidence?

So if Bill got his way, Pats would only have 3 Lombardi's and be no different than say a Giants or GB team. Guy makes shit moves during the draft and ever worse in FA. listen to his pressers, imagine a player having to listen to his mumbling and dribble smh.

All a hypothesis. Unless you care to provide proof that is not talking head conjecture.

 

[Southieinnc]

The Pats are just a few plays from 1st place in their division. A few plays that Mac threw into the dirt, over the receivers ability to catch or straight into the defenders hands.

Correct! This clearly shows that if we played better and won games we would be higher in the standings!

 

[Southieinnc]

So in a nutshell, we have a shitty GM?

 

[BigKen]

Correct! This clearly shows that if we played better and won games we would be higher in the standings!

So would the Jets, Bills, Packers, etc., etc., and so on.

If, if, if, could, might, might, might if, if, if.

If that bullet hadn't struck him between the eyes, he might have lived.