politics thread

[gkekoa]

I'm not following how that makes it a real emergency.

If in a single month, 50k people try to cross the border illegally, you do not consider that an emergency? If the resources are diverted to a specific location to thwart that attack on our sovereignty, do you believe other areas are left more vulnerable?

 

[gkekoa]

GK, I have no idea if the numbers are accurate or not, that is why I use numbers directly from the US Government. After all, these are the numbers Trump should be using when he does his analysis, wouldn't you think? But if we question the apprehension rate (and thusly the success rate), then we have to question all the numbers, even the ones that are being used to say we have a national emergency, requiring the funding of a wall immediately? You can't just cherry pick which numbers to use (well, politicians have been doing this for eons which is part of the problem).

Once again, my position isn't that we don't need border security. We absolutely do. We should strive to identify every person coming into this country, where they are heading, what their intentions are and, most importantly, that they leave when they are supposed to. I'm just not convinced that spending $5B on a physical structure that can always be beat is the best use of our (mine and yours) money. I think this is more a political battle of one egomaniac wanting to say he beat another egomaniac. When Mexico was paying for it, fine. When I have to pay for it? Hold on one minute........

So to the original issue, I need Trump to tell me why Mexico isn't paying for this wall, as he GUARANTEED. And please don't use the NAFTA deal as the way he was going to do it, because that dog don't hunt. I want honesty. If he miscalculated, then tell me. But don't blow smoke up my ass......

I agree, Trump should use numbers, tangible numbers put out by his departments. For instance, 50k people were caught trying to cross the border in May. That is tangible. The numbers of people crossing illegally, sorry but hose numbers are not tangible and not fact.

As for Mexico paying for the wall, the only way you can force Mexico to pay for the wall is throu Congress and the POTUS. Did you actually expect the POTUS to have the power to force Mexico to write a check? If you did, then you need to have a better understanding of his power. There are two ways he can make Mexico pay for the wall. One is through trade negotiations. We give 300 million in aid annually to Mexico. If we start withholding that money, then Mexico has fewer options. From there Mexico could not only fund the wall but build it with their cheaper labor.

 

[j_y19]

I agree, Trump should use numbers, tangible numbers put out by his departments. For instance, 50k people were caught trying to cross the border in May. That is tangible. The numbers of people crossing illegally, sorry but hose numbers are not tangible and not fact.

As for Mexico paying for the wall, the only way you can force Mexico to pay for the wall is throu Congress and the POTUS. Did you actually expect the POTUS to have the power to force Mexico to write a check? If you did, then you need to have a better understanding of his power. There are two ways he can make Mexico pay for the wall. One is through trade negotiations. We give 300 million in aid annually to Mexico. If we start withholding that money, then Mexico has fewer options. From there Mexico could not only fund the wall but build it with their cheaper labor.

Actually, there is no way he can get Mexico to pay for the wall, short of war. That's being proven as we debate this topic.

 

[j_y19]

Actually, there is no way he can get Mexico to pay for the wall, short of war. That's being proven as we debate this topic.

I agree, Trump should use numbers, tangible numbers put out by his departments. For instance, 50k people were caught trying to cross the border in May. That is tangible. The numbers of people crossing illegally, sorry but hose numbers are not tangible and not fact.

As for Mexico paying for the wall, the only way you can force Mexico to pay for the wall is throu Congress and the POTUS. Did you actually expect the POTUS to have the power to force Mexico to write a check? If you did, then you need to have a better understanding of his power. There are two ways he can make Mexico pay for the wall. One is through trade negotiations. We give 300 million in aid annually to Mexico. If we start withholding that money, then Mexico has fewer options. From there Mexico could not only fund the wall but build it with their cheaper labor.

Also, per your logic, if there is no way to estimate the number that do get through, all the more reason why the $5B should not be spent. Hell, we might be catching 99% of them. That 50K you refer to for the one month were all caught with existing resources. That may be all we need. Right?

 

[Stymietee]

If you are against the wall Tear Down Your Fence so i can live in your yard and so you can pay for my healthcare storm the border of turkey and see what happen liberals you all be dead

This has to be a top 2, dumbest posts of all time! I hope that you were just kidding.

 

[Stymietee]

Airport security has been affected in terms of wait times...oh well. Who cares about national parks?

Military, welfare, Medicaid, science donations, foreign aid, etc.

The shutdown affects big corporate America...oh well. If you are counting on government spending to exist, should you exist?

????

 

[Stymietee]

NOP

Yes over time and the stop of human trafficking and drugs . Now let’s do this math . We have 12 - 20 mil illegals In this country . A wall would stop half of that. Now is that worth it ?

Nope, because your premise is flawed. "a wall would stop half" There's already a wall and a fence where it can be built and it's not stopping anything. Almost all so-called "Illegals" result form expired visas, or crossing at legal checkpoints. Of those crossing at the walled/fenced border 95% of them have figured out a way to either get over, around or under such barricades.

 

[Stymietee]

Syria-Turkey border wall completed

Well, unless you want to go to war with several South American Countries, then you, once again have no point. To be clear, there's a border war going on between Turkey and Syria, see?

Syria war: Why Turkey's battle for northern Syria matters ...
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42818353

 

[Stymietee]

I'm not following how that makes it a real emergency.

It doesn't, these folks are just frightened by the boogie man and he was made up by an autocrat. Maybe we need a wall for these people.

Only Six People on Terrorism List Stopped at Mexico Border ...
fortune.com/.../07/4000-suspected-terrorists-stopped-mexico-border...

yeah...all 6 of them. BTW: I would love to know where that 50K number comes from! I'll bet that the vast majority comes from airports and established checkpoints.

 

[Stymietee]

Lost productivity is bad regardless of whether you think we need the security.

The simple answer? They're great. Americans enjoy them. They bring tourists to America to visit them. They protect national treasures that should remain natural. They're educational.

I'm not sure I follow how helping Americans is actually infringing the rights and liberty of Americans?

We should help Americans AND protect their rights and liberty.

Let me add that trees, create an ecosystem to provide habitat and food for birds and other animals.

And here's a little something that might be useful in sustaining life on this planet.

Trees absorb carbon dioxide and potentially harmful gasses, such as sulfur dioxide, carbon monoxide, from the air and release oxygen.

Teddy Roosevelt (Republican) recognized this and the dangers in destroying them, then helped create our national parks system.

 

[Stymietee]

If in a single month, 50k people try to cross the border illegally, you do not consider that an emergency? If the resources are diverted to a specific location to thwart that attack on our sovereignty, do you believe other areas are left more vulnerable?

Excerpt: "DHS took 51,912 migrants into custody in May, nearly three times the number detained in May 2017, a period when illegal immigration plunged following Trump’s inauguration."

Hmmmm I wonder what's going on that the number has jumped in a year since Trump took office? Did he in his zeal to erase everything Obama create this issue? Did the number of people who fleeing their country increase because there was no further pressure being put on their leaders? Why? Shit just don't happen in a vacuum folks!

Maybe the best strategy is in telling Trump that Obama did it without a wall and better than he has!

 

[ehb5]

Actually it isn’t bad if we are not paying for it.

So as a libertarian, that is a governmental function? You actually believe tourists wouldn’t come to the US if their weren’t a national park and just a natural world? How many kids do you believe go to these parks and actually read what is provided?

A libertarian would believe we are left to our devices. When you take from the labors of one who works and give to those who do not, then you are going directly against what a libertarian would believe.

We as individuals should help those less fortunate...function of humanity.
We as a nation should safeguard the liberties of the people.

Huh? Lost productivity is bad no matter what. Whether we pay for security is a separate issue.

I Believe its something the government should do yes. Where did I say tourists wouldn't come otherwise? Enough kids to make it worth it.

No sorry that's not how libertarianism works. It's not "my personal philosophy and nothing else counts as libertarian".

Also you described more of an anarchist than a libertarian.

 

[ehb5]

If in a single month, 50k people try to cross the border illegally, you do not consider that an emergency? If the resources are diverted to a specific location to thwart that attack on our sovereignty, do you believe other areas are left more vulnerable?

No. Why would I? For one they didn't cross. Secondly we know illegal immigration isn't an emergency even when they do cross. The closest thing to an emergency is that we can't process these cases quickly enough but I certainly wouldn't call for a national emergency for that and a wall doesn't solve that.

 

[ehb5]

I have already stated my position on the wall and given facts . I want the wall and believe it will cut illegal immigration , drugs and human trafficking . There are facts that back it up . As for what news you watch. Why persue it ? It won’t make any difference now will it ?

And your "facts" were pointed out to be inaccurate.

I find it so odd that you...

1. Don't know where I get my news from.
2. Criticize where I get my news from despite not knowing where it is actually from
3. Won't share where you find your all knowing "truth" from
4. Won't share what news can't be trusted

That's weird as hell man aside from it not making any sense.

 

[ehb5]

Let me ask you this? How can you get accurate numbers for what goes through. If you actually knew, wouldn’t the number of illegal crossings be 0?

How do they derive their estimate? It is basically the honor system. So you want me to believe the numbers when we simply ask people if they are here legally?

Hiring more border security means annual salaries and healthcare. A wall means fewer people can do the work of more people.

Dude. I've already shown where the numbers come from.

Ignoring that data is just picking and choosing information you want to hear plain and simple.

Do you also never use GDP as a statistic?
Or crime rates?

Or any other statistic pretty much?

I mean at that point you can just live in whatever reality you want.

 

[skinsdad62]

FISA shocker: DOJ official warned Steele dossier was connected to Clinton, might be biased

Hmmmm

 

[skinsdad62]

And your "facts" were pointed out to be inaccurate.

I find it so odd that you...

1. Don't know where I get my news from.
2. Criticize where I get my news from despite not knowing where it is actually from
3. Won't share where you find your all knowing "truth" from
4. Won't share what news can't be trusted

That's weird as hell man aside from it not making any sense.

No they weren’t

 

[skinsdad62]

Dems pre-Trump:

-Hillary: Supported border wall
-Obama: More border security, illegals must speak English, go to back of line
-Schumer: Border walls work
-Reid: Offering benefits to illegals = insane
-Feinstein: US can't be Mexico's welfare
-Clinton: Illegal immigration is wrong

 

[skinsdad62]

In Memoriam: 12 Americans Allegedly Killed by Illegal Aliens in 2018

 

[skinsdad62]

From DHS: There are nearly 2,100 illegal entries a day at our southern border. Last year alone, 17,000 criminals were apprehended at the border, and DHS prevented 3,755 known or suspected terrorists from traveling to or entering the United States.