politics thread

[j_y19]

I think his motivation comes from a nice blend of stupidity, ignorance, arrogance, and racism. I think Trump is pretty clearly racist. Is he knowingly racist? I doubt it.

I agree in principle, but I guess it depends on your definition of racist. Has he said stupid things about Hispanics? Yeah, but if that’s the measuring stick, then he must also hate middle aged white guys for he has eviscerated quite a few during the primaries. Bottom line is the guy is an egomaniac who believes everyone is below him, irregardless is sex, race, age, or religious beliefs.

 

[skinsdad62]

1. Trump and his administration are working to limit legal immigration.

2. Nobody WANTS illegal immigration. We just recognize it is not destroying the country as Trump claims.


Our emphasis should be on bringing MORE people to the US and processing them as quickly and safely as possible.

it is and i am a victim of it . we arent the worlds welfare state

 

[j_y19]

They all voted for secure fences in places where it was needed and prudent. None were in favor of a 30 foot wall from coast to coast. And until Trump went on his Mexican are rapists rant, I was in favor of a wall/fence in places where it was logical. He made it about race, and pedals in it... so Im fine if not a single inch of new fencing goes up until he and the Steve Kings of the world are voted out of office. Because i dont trust where they would take this.

Shark, the issue isn’t the type of barrier, but the intent of the barrier. Your claim that the wall’s intent is to stop a certain race from entering the country. Well, guess what? That must also be the intent of the fence that Obama and all the others supported. How can you look at it any other way if you are being impartial?

 

[Sharkinva]

Shark, the issue isn’t the type of barrier, but the intent of the barrier. Your claim that the wall’s intent is to stop a certain race from entering the country. Well, guess what? That must also be the intent of the fence that Obama and all the others supported. How can you look at it any other way if you are being impartial?

I freely admit, my take on the wall, fence what have you has changed. But i think the narrative on it has changed as well. I simply dont think in the current plans its about making America better for everyone. Its about soothing the fears of a particular subset of Americans. I realize that the drugs and such are NOT coming across the vast open border, which to me is of much more concern than someone wanting to come here to make a better life for themselves.

YOu are right, the issue isnt the type of barrier, but the intent behind it. I trusted Obama's intentions. I DONT trust Trumps intentions behind it. Or the hopes of his fanbase for what they expect to get out of it.

 

[Sharkinva]

OK guys.. someone PLEASE rationalize this particular shit show for me and tell me THIS is where we should be heading back to as a society???

Inside the GM plant where nooses and 'whites-only' signs intimidated workers - CNN

Can you taste that MAGA Greatness yet??

 

[skinsdad62]

OK guys.. someone PLEASE rationalize this particular shit show for me and tell me THIS is where we should be heading back to as a society???

Inside the GM plant where nooses and 'whites-only' signs intimidated workers - CNN

Can you taste that MAGA Greatness yet??

And trump is to blame for this ? How ? Sounds like it’s straight from the progressive playbook

 

[Sharkinva]

And trump is to blame for this ? How ? Sounds like it’s straight from the progressive playbook

Directly?? No. Indirectly by making it OK to act this way with his tone and rhetoric?? I would say yep.

Or rather, ask yourself this honest question... if something like this had happened say 5 years ago, and it was a bunch of black or Latino workers doing this to a white person.... and Obama had been pushing an open agenda that whites were the root of our problems... would you not at least partially hold him responsible??

Fact is, shit like this HAS increased over the past few years. So while Trump might not be directly responsible.... its a hell of a coincidence dontcha think.

 

[Cyder]

Directly?? No. Indirectly by making it OK to act this way with his tone and rhetoric?? I would say yep.

Or rather, ask yourself this honest question... if something like this had happened say 5 years ago, and it was a bunch of black or Latino workers doing this to a white person.... and Obama had been pushing an open agenda that whites were the root of our problems... would you not at least partially hold him responsible??

Fact is, shit like this HAS increased over the past few years. So while Trump might not be directly responsible.... its a hell of a coincidence dontcha think.

I'm not a Trump guy, quite frankly I've disliked him for decades but it's strange how often these racists things show up and it turns out they're farces or done by a person of color to gain sympathy, attention or to file a law suit. In NYC there has been an uptick in incidents deemed racist and of course people tried to blame Trump The ones that have been solved involved people not exactly in Trump's demographic. An old cemetery for slaves is defaced and it's a Latino guy who hates Trump. A synagogue defaced? The person caught was a black guy who had worked on the campaign of uber lefty progressive Christine Quinn. Turns out that young man has mental issues and was adopted by Jewish people. Another synagogue defaced and the security camera shows a young black man in dreads.

Let's not forget this one that turned out to be a farce and people tried to blame Trump for creating an atmosphere conducive to racism but the cadet wrote the racist crap himself. Target of Racist Graffiti Wrote It, Air Force Academy Says

Have these things increased or are people just reporting it more?

 

[Sharkinva]

Look guys, I really wish I could say MAGA had ZERO to do with Race. And that the wall was all about protecting ALL Americans.

But every time I want to believe that, I hear about some more specifically targets bullshit. I havent even mentioned that apparently Trump wanted to block any Hurricane relief to Puerto Rico. And I think, what would have been the reaction if a Democrat, much less Obama, had done or said half the racially targeted BS. And i realize, folks would have stormed the white house and strung him up on the south lawn.

 

[j_y19]

OK guys.. someone PLEASE rationalize this particular shit show for me and tell me THIS is where we should be heading back to as a society???

Inside the GM plant where nooses and 'whites-only' signs intimidated workers - CNN

Can you taste that MAGA Greatness yet??

First, I will say that this is terrible and I hope these guys are wildly successful in their suit. But as this article states, this has been happening in this plant for years so not sure you can say this is where we are heading, but where we have come from. Unfortunately there are still vestiges of an ignorant and violent time that we still need to root out. Not sure you can say that Trump and his policies instigated this as it has been going on long before his time. Now can one opine that Trump isn't actively trying to root these issues out......yes, you can.

 

[gkekoa]

Also, per your logic, if there is no way to estimate the number that do get through, all the more reason why the $5B should not be spent. Hell, we might be catching 99% of them. That 50K you refer to for the one month were all caught with existing resources. That may be all we need. Right?

So if we can’t prove something happens, crossing illegally at the border is proven, then we shouldn’t pay to prevent it? Even if there is a mountain of evidence to show it does exist? The 5 billion it would have cost has already been lost by the shutdown. The democrats would have saved us money by negotiating. Instead, they are grand standing to hurt the economy, with the side benefit of slowing the economy democrats didn’t believe could exist.

Apparently not, because it is proven that many people get through.

Look, I am all for e-verify as well. Also, why don’t we have a system in place that actually goes after people who overstay their welcome?

 

[gkekoa]

It doesn't, these folks are just frightened by the boogie man and he was made up by an autocrat. Maybe we need a wall for these people.

Only Six People on Terrorism List Stopped at Mexico Border ...
fortune.com/.../07/4000-suspected-terrorists-stopped-mexico-border...

yeah...all 6 of them. BTW: I would love to know where that 50K number comes from! I'll bet that the vast majority comes from airports and established checkpoints.

Only six people and that isn’t enough? So if we caught six in the database, how many got through and how many weren’t in the database?

 

[gkekoa]

Let me add that trees, create an ecosystem to provide habitat and food for birds and other animals.

And here's a little something that might be useful in sustaining life on this planet.

Trees absorb carbon dioxide and potentially harmful gasses, such as sulfur dioxide, carbon monoxide, from the air and release oxygen.

Teddy Roosevelt (Republican) recognized this and the dangers in destroying them, then helped create our national parks system.

Yes they do. We would still have federal land without national parks, correct?

 

[j_y19]

So if we can’t prove something happens, crossing illegally at the border is proven, then we shouldn’t pay to prevent it? Even if there is a mountain of evidence to show it does exist? The 5 billion it would have cost has already been lost by the shutdown. The democrats would have saved us money by negotiating. Instead, they are grand standing to hurt the economy, with the side benefit of slowing the economy democrats didn’t believe could exist.

Apparently not, because it is proven that many people get through.

Look, I am all for e-verify as well. Also, why don’t we have a system in place that actually goes after people who overstay their welcome?

Never said we shouldn't invest in border security. But if you don't know the scope of the problem, how do to determine the scope of the solution? What is our $5B buying us in effectiveness?

Again, I am trying to understand your logic that we can't use US Border Patrol estimates that they catch 90% of those that cross. IF so, then any remaining investment in Border Security has to be targeted at that remaining 10%. Right?

 

[ehb5]

it is and i am a victim of it . we arent the worlds welfare state

How?

 

[gkekoa]

Doctored stats a little. According to some members of our society, any one who tries to enter at any place other than a port of entry is automatically a criminal and illegal entry. Even IF they follow the law and present themselves to a border patrol officer and request asylum.

Aside from six people, most of those suspected terrorists were caught a airport ports of entry and not the southern border.

Fact is... walls have one of two purposes.

1. To keep people or things from getting out
2. To keep people or things from getting in.

Now I dont know about you, but to me a 30 foot wall says you are not welcome and we dont want you here in most instances. The fact that we NEED a wall on the southern border, and to limit immigration from "Shithole" countries, while practically begging for immigrants from places like Norway would tell any logical person that its not about safety, drugs or human trafficking.

Carry on.

Well, by definition, an illegal crossing would constitute a crime.

I agree a 30’ wall says you are not welcome. People crossing illegally are not welcome. Not sure what your point is.

Compare Norway and Venezuela...one is a shithole and the other is not.

Oh...you believe it is about race, rather than one group of people being qualified and capable of supporting themselves.

 

[gkekoa]

Excerpt: "DHS took 51,912 migrants into custody in May, nearly three times the number detained in May 2017, a period when illegal immigration plunged following Trump’s inauguration."

Hmmmm I wonder what's going on that the number has jumped in a year since Trump took office? Did he in his zeal to erase everything Obama create this issue? Did the number of people who fleeing their country increase because there was no further pressure being put on their leaders? Why? Shit just don't happen in a vacuum folks!

Maybe the best strategy is in telling Trump that Obama did it without a wall and better than he has!

Well...if we stopped more, what does that have to do with policing.

Maybe Obama should take notes on economic growth so the US is more desirable. See what I did there.

Truth is, liberals are pouring money into South America to fund caravans.

 

[ehb5]

FISA shocker: DOJ official warned Steele dossier was connected to Clinton, might be biased

Hmmmm

That was disclosed by the FBI at the time.

The FBI and multiple judges determined there was enough for a FISA warrant. That decision was not based solely on the Steele Dossier.

The FBI also investigated Trump as part of a counterintelligence investigation out of fear he may have been compromised.

These things do NOT happen lightly.

Robert Mueller was appointed special counsel and was considered an excellent and fully trustworthy investigator by both sides of the aisle.

Trump and the Trump campaign frequently claimed there was NO contact or connection to Russia at any point.

We have since found that there were MANY connections to Russia from the campaign, the Trump family, and Trump businesses. We have found that Trump's actions were so concerning to the FBI that they launched an investigation into whether he was compromised. We know that Trump has done everything he can to attack that investigation, lie about it, and hide things from it.

We also know that Russia conspired to influence the election in favor of Trump


But...

You're going to believe the known liar Trump instead?

 

[Sharkinva]

Well, by definition, an illegal crossing would constitute a crime.

And yet people only seem to be REALLY worried about illegal crossings from south of the border and the designated shithole countries.

I agree a 30’ wall says you are not welcome. People crossing illegally are not welcome. Not sure what your point is.

My point is, its rather apparent that some folks are only welcoming to people that look like them. Anyone else... isnt really welcome in their book.

Compare Norway and Venezuela...one is a shithole and the other is not.

I dont see many Norwegians lining up to come here.. i wonder why??

Oh...you believe it is about race, rather than one group of people being qualified and capable of supporting themselves.

What makes one group more capable of taking care of themselves than another. Because reality is, I dont see many Americans willing to work two and three jobs, and live with 10 people in a two bedroom apartment in order to take care of themselves unless they have no other choice. Yet these lazy folks from south of the border have been doing it for years.

 

[ehb5]

I mean... What makes Trump remotely trustworthy on this?