politics thread

[j_y19]

Go back and reread my statement really closely and determine what unknowingly is

I have made my case about the wall just go back and look

Where I get my news is a deflection and irrelevant suffice to say I watch and follow all news sources


Here are facts. Straight from the Government. Illegals coming across the border have significantly decreased over the last 5 years. While there is no exact number how many make it, the base their analysis on the number the catch. In 2018, the apprehended right around 300,000 coming illegally into this country across the Southwest border. They also estimate that the catch around 90% trying to come in illegally. Based on those estimates, then we can assume that around 30,000 made it successfully last year. Again, that number is trending down. Now is it prudent to spend $5B to catch 30,000? That is a reasonable question that I hope anyone concerned with Government spending would ask. Could we spend much less on other means of border security and round up those remaining 10%?

 

[skinsdad62]

Yes over time and the stop of human trafficking and drugs . Now let’s do this math . We have 12 - 20 mil illegals In this country . A wall would stop half of that. Now is that worth it ?

 

[j_y19]

Yes over time and the stop of human trafficking and drugs . Now let’s do this math . We have 12 - 20 mil illegals In this country . A wall would stop half of that. Now is that worth it ?

That’s not what the US Border Patrol website says. They already stop 90%. And the latest estimate is we have around 10M illegals. So the $5B we are going to spend is target toward stopping those remaining 10%, or about 30,000 yearly. What if we spent money on hiring more Border Security? That has to be much cheaper than $5B. Would that do it? Wouldn’t you like to know?

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

5b out of what 40000000billion

 

[ehb5]

Airport security has been affected in terms of wait times...oh well. Who cares about national parks?

Military, welfare, Medicaid, science donations, foreign aid, etc.

The shutdown affects big corporate America...oh well. If you are counting on government spending to exist, should you exist?

Right. That's bad. Its part of the lost productivity you mentioned.

National parks are awesome. Now they can survive a shutdown for a bit. But they are something affected by the shutdown that the government should provide which is what you asked.

I think a lot of what you just rattled off is a good list and at the same time...those programs all do good things. Deciding what to cut exactly isnt all that easy and cutting those things may well hurt Americans.

 

[ehb5]

What makes the emergency fake?

What makes it real?

 

[ehb5]

5b out of what 40000000billion

Spoken like a true conservative

 

[ehb5]

look the dems said they were for a wall until trump said he was . there are tons of clips from obama to HRC tp upchuck schumer and pelosi stating we need a wall and border security

i can post stats like 300 americans die per week from the unsecure border by either murder on the drugs coming through and it wont matter

because bottom line is either of these things are true .

you are a socialist wanting one world govt knowingly or unknowingly because you fall for these incremental steps

you are simply a trump hater and want him gone no matter what and giving him yet another political victory is too hard to swallow

i bet my last dollar if these illegals voted republican we would land mine the border plus have the wall

some questions liberals need to ask they simply wont because they are afraid of the truth and the MSM keeps a lot of stuff from you

if you dont have anything close to 50-50 reporting then you have nothing close to fairness .

i have brought up these issues and yet most are either deflecting it , burying their heads in the sand , or get amnesia when you put the undisputed facts in front of them

it tells me all i need to know and most of it is just hate . and you can hate him , that's fair , but i take what you have to say with a grain of salt

the comments uttered here tell me you have no idea why trump one or why his supporters wont budge

you wont figure it out either because you listen to crap

I'd still like an explanation. How is what I propose socialist?

You have not made your case for the wall with accurate data. It can't be that hard for you to come up with a couple points backed by data to support your argument that we need a wall can it?

Wait so you get news from all sources? Yet your news is real and mine is fake? How does that work?

Why can't you just make an argument for the wall?

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

Syria-Turkey border wall completed   

 

[j_y19]

5b out of what 40000000billion

Hey, you gotta start somewhere.

 

[gkekoa]

That’s not what the US Border Patrol website says. They already stop 90%. And the latest estimate is we have around 10M illegals. So the $5B we are going to spend is target toward stopping those remaining 10%, or about 30,000 yearly. What if we spent money on hiring more Border Security? That has to be much cheaper than $5B. Would that do it? Wouldn’t you like to know?

Let me ask you this? How can you get accurate numbers for what goes through. If you actually knew, wouldn’t the number of illegal crossings be 0?

How do they derive their estimate? It is basically the honor system. So you want me to believe the numbers when we simply ask people if they are here legally?

Hiring more border security means annual salaries and healthcare. A wall means fewer people can do the work of more people.

 

[gkekoa]

Right. That's bad. Its part of the lost productivity you mentioned.

National parks are awesome. Now they can survive a shutdown for a bit. But they are something affected by the shutdown that the government should provide which is what you asked.

I think a lot of what you just rattled off is a good list and at the same time...those programs all do good things. Deciding what to cut exactly isnt all that easy and cutting those things may well hurt Americans.

It isn’t bad. It is a nuisance but we shouldn’t have the security we have now.

Why should the government have national parks? Where is that located in the purpose statement?

I don’t care about hurting Americans. I care about their RIGHTS and their LIBERTY. As a proclaimed libertarian, you should too.

 

[gkekoa]

What makes it real?

Well...when 50k people are stopped at the border in a given month, that makes it real.

 

[skinsdad62]

I'd still like an explanation. How is what I propose socialist?

You have not made your case for the wall with accurate data. It can't be that hard for you to come up with a couple points backed by data to support your argument that we need a wall can it?

Wait so you get news from all sources? Yet your news is real and mine is fake? How does that work?

Why can't you just make an argument for the wall?

I have made the cases already . How many times do I have to go over it ? I have backed up points over and over again which you have ignored repeatedly . All of my points come from non news sources which I have shown over and over again and you have ignored . I have played this game with you before . I have
Told you where to go to find the information over and over again yet you want to be spoon fed . Our past discussions have shown me what I need to know .

 

[ehb5]

It isn’t bad. It is a nuisance but we shouldn’t have the security we have now.

Why should the government have national parks? Where is that located in the purpose statement?

I don’t care about hurting Americans. I care about their RIGHTS and their LIBERTY. As a proclaimed libertarian, you should too.

Lost productivity is bad regardless of whether you think we need the security.

The simple answer? They're great. Americans enjoy them. They bring tourists to America to visit them. They protect national treasures that should remain natural. They're educational.

I'm not sure I follow how helping Americans is actually infringing the rights and liberty of Americans?

We should help Americans AND protect their rights and liberty.

 

[ehb5]

Well...when 50k people are stopped at the border in a given month, that makes it real.

I'm not following how that makes it a real emergency.

 

[ehb5]

I have made the cases already . How many times do I have to go over it ? I have backed up points over and over again which you have ignored repeatedly . All of my points come from non news sources which I have shown over and over again and you have ignored . I have played this game with you before . I have
Told you where to go to find the information over and over again yet you want to be spoon fed . Our past discussions have shown me what I need to know .

I havent ignored any of your posts. I think you know that.

Now I may not remember exactly your arguments since we took a break here and frankly I'm not gonna sift through 400 pages to find them.

So I'm asking you to clearly outline and explain your position.

I'm not looking to be spoon fed. I'm trying to understand how you arrived at the conclusions you did.

Still waiting on an answer to what's wrong with my news sources and what yours are that are so great btw.

 

[skinsdad62]

I have already stated my position on the wall and given facts . I want the wall and believe it will cut illegal immigration , drugs and human trafficking . There are facts that back it up . As for what news you watch. Why persue it ? It won’t make any difference now will it ?

 

[j_y19]

GK, I have no idea if the numbers are accurate or not, that is why I use numbers directly from the US Government. After all, these are the numbers Trump should be using when he does his analysis, wouldn't you think? But if we question the apprehension rate (and thusly the success rate), then we have to question all the numbers, even the ones that are being used to say we have a national emergency, requiring the funding of a wall immediately? You can't just cherry pick which numbers to use (well, politicians have been doing this for eons which is part of the problem).

Once again, my position isn't that we don't need border security. We absolutely do. We should strive to identify every person coming into this country, where they are heading, what their intentions are and, most importantly, that they leave when they are supposed to. I'm just not convinced that spending $5B on a physical structure that can always be beat is the best use of our (mine and yours) money. I think this is more a political battle of one egomaniac wanting to say he beat another egomaniac. When Mexico was paying for it, fine. When I have to pay for it? Hold on one minute........

So to the original issue, I need Trump to tell me why Mexico isn't paying for this wall, as he GUARANTEED. And please don't use the NAFTA deal as the way he was going to do it, because that dog don't hunt. I want honesty. If he miscalculated, then tell me. But don't blow smoke up my ass......

 

[gkekoa]

Lost productivity is bad regardless of whether you think we need the security.

The simple answer? They're great. Americans enjoy them. They bring tourists to America to visit them. They protect national treasures that should remain natural. They're educational.

I'm not sure I follow how helping Americans is actually infringing the rights and liberty of Americans?

We should help Americans AND protect their rights and liberty.

Actually it isn’t bad if we are not paying for it.

So as a libertarian, that is a governmental function? You actually believe tourists wouldn’t come to the US if their weren’t a national park and just a natural world? How many kids do you believe go to these parks and actually read what is provided?

A libertarian would believe we are left to our devices. When you take from the labors of one who works and give to those who do not, then you are going directly against what a libertarian would believe.

We as individuals should help those less fortunate...function of humanity.
We as a nation should safeguard the liberties of the people.