politics thread

[gkekoa]

Except I can argue against this. The current number of "illegal" immigrants crossing the border right now is a net zero (those coming in vs those returning) so what's there to slow down?

Next, is it really your reasoning that the cost of the shutdown has already exceeded what the wall would cost so we should waste 5 billion more taxpayer dollars building a monument to stupidity?

BTW: why stop there, let's do away with all of the make work programs in every state funded by federal dollars. Let's see we can begin with these people,
The top 9 biggest defense contractors in America ...
https://www.businessinsider.com/the-top-9-biggest-defense...

Then there's the whole, "who's going to pay for it?" {"MEXICO!!!"}

Finally, there's this little thing called the existing wall and fencing that doesn't need to be replaced already there.

Net zero...could be negative if we had nobody coming over...correct?

See...this is where Dad has a point. Walls work. I bet you have a fence around your house.

There is a fence and it works. We need more because the southern border is large.

 

[Stymietee]

Net zero...could be negative if we had nobody coming over...correct?

See...this is where Dad has a point. Walls work. I bet you have a fence around your house.

There is a fence and it works. We need more because the southern border is large.

1. WTH man, it's already zero and you're never going to have a negative when most of the so-called "illegals" are people who overstay their visas, or come in through well established ports of entry.

2. Walls don't work, never have, unless the example you want to use is the Great wall of China and how effective it was in keeping Mexicans out. BTW: I don't have a fence around my house, just the back yard, and it certainly doesn't stop a neighborhood kid or two from hopping over it as a shortcut every once in a while. However let's compare the two things.

Fence

Wall

Nope not the same thing, they are even spelled differently!

3. Ever hear of eminent domain, the Rio Grande, or natural barriers to crossing. All will be or are already impediments to building more. (Eminent domain because of lawsuits).However, let's play it your way and let's say that there's this great impenetrable wall built along the entire southern border. What's to stop the very few people who want to come in from doing so by going around the wall via the Gulf of Mexico, along the east or west coast, through tunnels or by using rope and a latter one foot taller than whatever height the wall would be?

 

[Stymietee]

BTW: that is certainly a unique way of defining the word "works."

 

[skinsdad62]

look the dems said they were for a wall until trump said he was . there are tons of clips from obama to HRC tp upchuck schumer and pelosi stating we need a wall and border security

i can post stats like 300 americans die per week from the unsecure border by either murder on the drugs coming through and it wont matter

because bottom line is either of these things are true .

you are a socialist wanting one world govt knowingly or unknowingly because you fall for these incremental steps

you are simply a trump hater and want him gone no matter what and giving him yet another political victory is too hard to swallow

i bet my last dollar if these illegals voted republican we would land mine the border plus have the wall

some questions liberals need to ask they simply wont because they are afraid of the truth and the MSM keeps a lot of stuff from you

if you dont have anything close to 50-50 reporting then you have nothing close to fairness .

i have brought up these issues and yet most are either deflecting it , burying their heads in the sand , or get amnesia when you put the undisputed facts in front of them

it tells me all i need to know and most of it is just hate . and you can hate him , that's fair , but i take what you have to say with a grain of salt

the comments uttered here tell me you have no idea why trump one or why his supporters wont budge

you wont figure it out either because you listen to crap

 

[Stymietee]

look the dems said they were for a wall until trump said he was . there are tons of clips from obama to HRC tp upchuck schumer and pelosi stating we need a wall and border security

i can post stats like 300 americans die per week from the unsecure border by either murder on the drugs coming through and it wont matter

because bottom line is either of these things are true .

you are a socialist wanting one world govt knowingly or unknowingly because you fall for these incremental steps

you are simply a trump hater and want him gone no matter what and giving him yet another political victory is too hard to swallow

i bet my last dollar if these illegals voted republican we would land mine the border plus have the wall

some questions liberals need to ask they simply wont because they are afraid of the truth and the MSM keeps a lot of stuff from you

if you dont have anything close to 50-50 reporting then you have nothing close to fairness .

i have brought up these issues and yet most are either deflecting it , burying their heads in the sand , or get amnesia when you put the undisputed facts in front of them

it tells me all i need to know and most of it is just hate . and you can hate him , that's fair , but i take what you have to say with a grain of salt

the comments uttered here tell me you have no idea why trump one or why his supporters wont budge

you wont figure it out either because you listen to crap

Isn't it true that if you substituted republican/conservative for liberal in any of these the same charges would hold? I keep telling you all that the best thing for this country is not in choosing one side or the other, it's in choosing neither!

 

[j_y19]

Well, of course you are but the limitation is blood/DNA. So, unless this guy says different...

Somewhere down the line we are related......I can feel it

 

[j_y19]

Actually, I wasn’t insulting you. Ignorance is not an insult.

Well, I guess that is a matter of opinion. I call someone ignorant during a debate and you can bet your bottom dollar that an insult was intended.

But that' not the point, GK. What I am trying to understand from you is where your support for Trump reaches its limit. To preface, I voted for the guy. I didn't want to, but felt the alternative was just as bad (in a different way). So I held my nose and pulled the lever. But I can no longer support him. This doesn't mean I can't support policies, but I don't trust Trump at all. He is a proven liar and I am becoming convinced that he doesn't always operate in the best interest of the country.

So the question I have for you is over your support of Trump. Is it because of the party affiliation or is it him personally? Do you believe he is the leader that you want representing you? Can anyone even tell me what his legislative agenda is for the remainder of his term other than claiming victory in building a wall?

Now for those of you on the other side of the aisle, be careful because your leaders are NO BETTER. This is why we have trump as president. Now the the Dems own the House, they will spend the next 2 years focused on nothing but impeaching trump. By any means. Real or not. They are throwing as much shit on the wall as they can to see what sticks. Which means no real governing will be done. This, too, is not in the best interest of the people they supposedly represent.

 

[gkekoa]

Well, I guess that is a matter of opinion. I call someone ignorant during a debate and you can bet your bottom dollar that an insult was intended.

But that' not the point, GK. What I am trying to understand from you is where your support for Trump reaches its limit. To preface, I voted for the guy. I didn't want to, but felt the alternative was just as bad (in a different way). So I held my nose and pulled the lever. But I can no longer support him. This doesn't mean I can't support policies, but I don't trust Trump at all. He is a proven liar and I am becoming convinced that he doesn't always operate in the best interest of the country.

So the question I have for you is over your support of Trump. Is it because of the party affiliation or is it him personally? Do you believe he is the leader that you want representing you? Can anyone even tell me what his legislative agenda is for the remainder of his term other than claiming victory in building a wall?

Now for those of you on the other side of the aisle, be careful because your leaders are NO BETTER. This is why we have trump as president. Now the the Dems own the House, they will spend the next 2 years focused on nothing but impeaching trump. By any means. Real or not. They are throwing as much shit on the wall as they can to see what sticks. Which means no real governing will be done. This, too, is not in the best interest of the people they supposedly represent.

I don’t like Trump and don’t actually support him. I will likely vote for somebody else in the primary. I support many of his policies, cross my fingers on others. He is a proven liar, just like every other politician before him. He has also carried through, or tried to, on more policy ideas than any POTUS I can remember.

 

[gkekoa]

1. WTH man, it's already zero and you're never going to have a negative when most of the so-called "illegals" are people who overstay their visas, or come in through well established ports of entry.

2. Walls don't work, never have, unless the example you want to use is the Great wall of China and how effective it was in keeping Mexicans out. BTW: I don't have a fence around my house, just the back yard, and it certainly doesn't stop a neighborhood kid or two from hopping over it as a shortcut every once in a while. However let's compare the two things.

Fence

Wall

Nope not the same thing, they are even spelled differently!

3. Ever hear of eminent domain, the Rio Grande, or natural barriers to crossing. All will be or are already impediments to building more. (Eminent domain because of lawsuits).However, let's play it your way and let's say that there's this great impenetrable wall built along the entire southern border. What's to stop the very few people who want to come in from doing so by going around the wall via the Gulf of Mexico, along the east or west coast, through tunnels or by using rope and a latter one foot taller than whatever height the wall would be?

We know people cross the border illegally. If we reduce that number, then the number of illegals go down. We know drugs come over the border. If we put up a barrier, it will reduce the amount, or make it more expensive for the shipment at least.

Hell, I am all for ensuring people leave when their VISAs expire. Let’s do it.

So you believe your fence does not prevent a single person or animal from going through your yard?

Impediments to building...absolutely. Impediments to crossing as well. Few? Tens of thousands every year. Border patrol will help stop them.

So your fix is apparently...do nothing.

 

[skinsdad62]

of course walls work ask israel . about 49% (if you trust feinstein ) still leaves 50% coming over the border .

again the same jerks who supported the wall in 2015 are the same group who opposes it now and its all about politics nothing more

 

[ehb5]

Show me 5he issue where we are depriving the US taxpayer of something the government should be providing.

I think the government should cut back everywhere...quite literally.

It doesn’t really go against anything I have said because where does the government do business with the little guy?

In Two Weeks the Costs of the Shutdown Will Exceed the Cost of Trump's Wall

Are you suggesting illegal immigration is not a problem? Reagan made a deal in the early 80s and a lot of illegals got to stay, millions. Now we have millions more illegals in this country. A wall is a physical barrier and everybody with half a brain knows it will at least slow illegal immigration. From there, it funnels where illegal immigration will have to take place, a choke point. So now we have to police a smaller area.

Airport security and national parks are both affected. Not to mention there may be unseen impacts or impacts with lags.

Can you be more specific? What should they cut back on?

What does doing business with the little guy have to do with anything? Either the shutdown is or is not having negative impacts on Americans.

Yes I am saying illegal immigration is not a problem. Or certainly not a national emergency. That's laughable.

 

[ehb5]

Except it isn’t a non-existent problem. Those who work the border have stated it is an issue. The millions of people in this country illegally today proves it is a problem.

It is.

Those who work the border have also stated it's not an issue ( or that it's a completely different issue from what Trump contends). You can pick your argument either way there.

The reality is though that the legitimacy of the emergency is not determined by the opinions of people on the border. It's determined by data. And that pretty clearly shows Trump's emergency to be fake.

 

[ehb5]

Except even VOX admits it is different.

USMCA, Trump’s new NAFTA deal, explained in 500 words

You can’t trust a word out of any politician’s mouth.

Obama...you can keep your insurance and it will cost less....hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaha.

That link further proves my point... It's essentially the same deal.

Agreed you can't trust politicians. But Trump takes that to a never before seen level.

The fact that that like for Obama is repeated so often really proves the point. Obama lied as politicians do. That's bad and deserving of criticism.

Trump lies an alarming level that makes Obama look like the most honest man alive.

 

[ehb5]

Long term...no money lost.

See number one.

No he didn’t.

I mean...there has been money lost. And none gained to date. Saying there wouldn't be long term losses seems...questionable.

The American taxpayer will pay for this wall if it happens. Thats a fact.

 

[ehb5]

look the dems said they were for a wall until trump said he was . there are tons of clips from obama to HRC tp upchuck schumer and pelosi stating we need a wall and border security

i can post stats like 300 americans die per week from the unsecure border by either murder on the drugs coming through and it wont matter

because bottom line is either of these things are true .

you are a socialist wanting one world govt knowingly or unknowingly because you fall for these incremental steps

you are simply a trump hater and want him gone no matter what and giving him yet another political victory is too hard to swallow

i bet my last dollar if these illegals voted republican we would land mine the border plus have the wall

some questions liberals need to ask they simply wont because they are afraid of the truth and the MSM keeps a lot of stuff from you

if you dont have anything close to 50-50 reporting then you have nothing close to fairness .

i have brought up these issues and yet most are either deflecting it , burying their heads in the sand , or get amnesia when you put the undisputed facts in front of them

it tells me all i need to know and most of it is just hate . and you can hate him , that's fair , but i take what you have to say with a grain of salt

the comments uttered here tell me you have no idea why trump one or why his supporters wont budge

you wont figure it out either because you listen to crap

No you cannot post those stats because they don't exist.

Please explain how I, as a moderate conservative/libertarian am actually a socialist? You realize that not everybody who disagrees with you is a socialist? Are you a white supremacist because you disagree with me and want a border wall? I didnt think so.

Uhh no. My immigration views are driven by facts. I've shown that several times. Trump lies and is an awful person but I would never change my personal view just to spite him. In fact I agree with Trump on several things (assuming we can pin down what he actually believes). How do you explain that?

So you keep saying that I get my news from bad places and that you have found the truth yet you keep refusing to explain where you think I am getting my info from and where you are getting yours?

So I will ask again...

Where should I not be getting my news and data from? What is the "crap" I am listening to?

And where are you getting your news and data that you trust so much?

Im not deflecting anything. Please can you make your best case for why we need a wall? Preferably point by point for clarity and with sources and data to justify your arguments?

 

[gkekoa]

Airport security and national parks are both affected. Not to mention there may be unseen impacts or impacts with lags.

Can you be more specific? What should they cut back on?

What does doing business with the little guy have to do with anything? Either the shutdown is or is not having negative impacts on Americans.

Yes I am saying illegal immigration is not a problem. Or certainly not a national emergency. That's laughable.

Airport security has been affected in terms of wait times...oh well. Who cares about national parks?

Military, welfare, Medicaid, science donations, foreign aid, etc.

The shutdown affects big corporate America...oh well. If you are counting on government spending to exist, should you exist?

 

[gkekoa]

It is.

Those who work the border have also stated it's not an issue ( or that it's a completely different issue from what Trump contends). You can pick your argument either way there.

The reality is though that the legitimacy of the emergency is not determined by the opinions of people on the border. It's determined by data. And that pretty clearly shows Trump's emergency to be fake.

What makes the emergency fake?

 

[skinsdad62]

No you cannot post those stats because they don't exist.

Please explain how I, as a moderate conservative/libertarian am actually a socialist? You realize that not everybody who disagrees with you is a socialist? Are you a white supremacist because you disagree with me and want a border wall? I didnt think so.

Uhh no. My immigration views are driven by facts. I've shown that several times. Trump lies and is an awful person but I would never change my personal view just to spite him. In fact I agree with Trump on several things (assuming we can pin down what he actually believes). How do you explain that?

So you keep saying that I get my news from bad places and that you have found the truth yet you keep refusing to explain where you think I am getting my info from and where you are getting yours?

So I will ask again...

Where should I not be getting my news and data from? What is the "crap" I am listening to?

And where are you getting your news and data that you trust so much?

Im not deflecting anything. Please can you make your best case for why we need a wall? Preferably point by point for clarity and with sources and data to justify your arguments?

Go back and reread my statement really closely and determine what unknowingly is

I have made my case about the wall just go back and look

Where I get my news is a deflection and irrelevant suffice to say I watch and follow all news sources

I have mentioned before about my sources and where the information has come from .

And yes those stats do in fact exist and all it takes are web searches and some deeper looking

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

If you are against the wall Tear Down Your Fence so i can live in your yard and so you can pay for my healthcare storm the border of turkey and see what happen liberals you all be dead

 

[j_y19]

If you are against the wall Tear Down Your Fence so i can live in your yard and so you can pay for my healthcare storm the border of turkey and see what happen liberals you all be dead

I don’t think that most of us questioning spending $5B+ on a wall aren’t saying we don’t need border security. The question in my mind is this the best use of the money or is this a guy just wanting to say he kept a campaign promise.