Patrick Mahomes: HOFer?

[navamind]

this is ridiculously premature. he's off to a fantastic start, but he's only got two "full" seasons under his belt (31 regular season games).

 

[Battlelyon]

Warner is 2-44 overall.

Warner would have won more games if he played with better defenses. He had a great one when he won the Super Bowl with the 1999 Rams, but Warner also dragged with him two of the worst defenses to ever see the postseason in 2000 and 2008.

Most Points Allowed by a Playoff Team in NFL History
Rk Team Year Primary QB Record PA Result
1 Rams 2000 Kurt Warner 10-6 471 Lost NFC-WC
2 Packers 2013 Aaron Rodgers 8-7-1 428 Lost NFC-WC
3 Cardinals 2008 Kurt Warner 9-7 426 Lost SB
4 Oilers 1989 Warren Moon 9-7 412 Lost AFC-WC
5 Seahawks 2010 Matt Hasselbeck 7-9 407 Lost NFC-DIV
6 Giants 2011 Eli Manning 9-7 400 Won SB

Only six teams have made the playoffs after allowing 400 points, and Warner was the primary quarterback for two of them. He was the first to win a playoff game with one of these defenses, and has the only 10-win season on the list (2000 Rams). Technically, Trent Green started five games (2-3 record) that year with Warner injured, but the Rams actually allowed more points -- 30.2 points per game is a pace of just under 483 points -- in Warner's 11 starts. Warner still went 8-3 as a starter.


Warner could have been 0-3 in his Super Bowls just as easily as he could have been 3-0. He played in the three Super Bowls with the largest deficits erased (16, 14 and 13 points), and he erased the two largest fourth-quarter deficits, but still lost both games. Yes, the pick-sixes were killers, but he was clearly hit in the face by Mike Vrabel on the Ty Law play, yet there was no flag.

The lack of points in those three games is a concern, but Warner had to supply most of the offense with little-to-no help from the running game. Against the 2008 Steelers, Warner had to face the league's best defense with the help of 11 carries for 33 yards. Against the 1999 Titans, Warner handed off 11 times for 28 yards. In fact, out of 48 Super Bowl runs, no quarterback has won a championship with less help from his running game in the postseason than Warner, who only received 45 carries for 108 yards in three games in 1999.

Warner had some red-zone issues against Tennessee, but the Rams also botched two easy field goals. At least he connected with Bruce on the 73-yard game-winning touchdown pass. That's the thing with Warner. People will remember his clutch moments in the postseason. He only had 14 game-winning drives, but three of them were game-winning touchdown passes in championship games. His records listed above are horrific, but people will remember the almost comebacks he had in Super Bowls. He erased New England's 17-3 lead, only to never see the ball again. He had the Cardinals -- come on, the ARIZONA CARDINALS -- one stop away from a 13-point comeback, only for Roethlisberger and Santonio Holmes to snatch it away with 35 seconds left.

You need a lot of bad luck to have records like 1-37 and 0-42. If Gus Frerotte didn't convert a fourth-and-26 against the 1999 Rams, Warner would have had a nine-point comeback that day. He came off the bench against the 2007 Ravens and led a 17-point comeback to tie the game before never seeing the ball again. Overall, it's not that Warner was bad in those moments, but his teams just weren't successful.

 

[rmilia1]

2 more great years and hes in imo regardless of what happens after that. When we debate guys like Eli the common mantra is " he was never the best at his position!". Well Mahomes is and its not particularly close either. If hes a top 2/3 guy the next few years and then regresses ( for whatever crazy reason ) and is just a top 10-12 type guy he will still have a longer stretch of being elite than most QBs in the HoF

 

[broncosmitty]

Nope

 

[Wamu]

That "I gotta be me." spiel Mayfield has is morphing into a Jeff George/Rob Johnson/Jay Schroeder dickhead vibe.

Mayfield's a pain in the ass. And he's clueless thinking he doesn't need to work with a QB coach.

 

[eaglesnut]

If Patrick Mahomes retired tomorrow, do you think he should be inducted into the Hall of Fame?

1 MVP award
1 Super Bowl win
1 Super Bowl MVP award

That’s already equal to or greater than the vast majority of NFL quarterbacks, some of whom are already in the Hall.

No.

Longevity is the most important factor.

Most dopes never grasp that.

 

[YankeeRebel]

Mayfield's a pain in the ass. And he's clueless thinking he doesn't need to work with a QB coach.

I agree, IMO Mayfield is way over rated as QB. With all the talent on that team he should be putting up crazy numbers and a lot more wins.

 

[Jiddy]

He has to be at this point for Eagles fans...or they will lose their mind that Andy Reid could win a Super Bowl without extreme help.

 

[Wamu]

I agree, IMO Mayfield is way over rated as QB. With all the talent on that team he should be putting up crazy numbers and a lot more wins.

He set rookie records in Todd Haley's offense. This past year he looked bad in Freddie's offense. I don't want to sound like a homer because I can't stand Mayfield's arrogant personality. But I'm not ready just yet to call him overrated.

 

[Wamu]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

My bad. Meant to say set a rookie record, TD passes. Not records.

 

[Gatorchip]

Stupid question.




He was a shoe in after his rookie year

He played in one game as a rookie.

 

[YankeeRebel]

He set rookie records in Todd Haley's offense. This past year he looked bad in Freddie's offense. I don't want to sound like a homer because I can't stand Mayfield's arrogant personality. But I'm not ready just yet to call him overrated.

I mean over rated in the sense some see him as a top tier QB, and IMO he's not.

 

[Wamu]

I mean over rated in the sense some see him as a top tier QB, and IMO he's not.

There's no way in hell he's a top tier QB. Not after being last in TD to int. ratio & next to last in passer rating. My guess is the only knuckleheads saying he's a top tier QB are overly homeristic & delusional Browns fans.

 

[knowyourenemy]

There's no way in hell he's a top tier QB. Not after being last in TD to int. ratio & next to last in passer rating. My guess is the only knuckleheads saying he's a top tier QB are overly homeristic & delusional Browns fans.

I think Baker bought into the hype about him this offseason. Hopefully this season humbled him a bit and he puts extra work in.

I didn’t watch too many Browns games but I though the OL didn’t do him many favors in the games that I did see.

 

[Wamu]

I think Baker bought into the hype about him this offseason. Hopefully this season humbled him a bit and he puts extra work in.

I didn’t watch too many Browns games but I though the OL didn’t do him many favors in the games that I did see.

No doubt about Mayfield buying into the hype. As far as the OL goes. When he didn't hold onto the ball too long he looked okay. This is the same OL that paved the way for Chubb getting 1,494 yards. But that being said I wouldn't mind seeing some off season OL upgrades.

But I think the biggest problem was Freddie. He wasn't ready to be a HC. And I don't think the vets in the lookerroom had any respect for him. The team played undisciplined all season long. No wonder they either led the league or were close to the top in penalities & yards.

 

[YankeeRebel]

So they just added Moonpies to the snack machine at work, I ran out of Kind Bars so I said to myself You haven't had a moonpie in 30 years go for it". Slid my dollar in, that shit was horrid.

 

[Tortilla Launcher]

He played in one game as a rookie.

Exactly. I know what I said sir!!

 

[Robotech]

Would it be a good comparison to say that Mahomes is like a track athlete who sets a world record early in his career and wins an Olympic gold medal in the same year or the following year of his world record. He has the best performance level of anyone who has ever competed at his sport, is already a champion, but he needs to win another gold medal or two before he can be considered the greatest of his sport.

No one wants to entertain my track and field analogy?? Damn, you guys! LOL. I love track and field. Maybe Mahomes is like Usain Bolt. Bolt came along and shattered the records, but he had to go on and win more Olympic gold medals to really be the greatest of all time.

 

[sonnyblack65]

No one wants to entertain my track and field analogy?? Damn, you guys! LOL. I love track and field. Maybe Mahomes is like Usain Bolt. Bolt came along and shattered the records, but he had to go on and win more Olympic gold medals to really be the greatest of all time.

All right man I'll go with your track and field analogy. Mahomes is Bruce Jenner with the Kaitlyn voice