OBP VS BA

[MilkSpiller22]

In 5X5 categories there has been a debate on which is the better use. In fact in the SportsHoopla fantasy leagues we had a vote on it and OBP won. And I was one who voted for OBP.

The reason everyone gave was because OBP is the better stat and it takes into account walks.

After a couple weeks of play in a couple leagues now that all use OBP over BA, I must say I was wrong OBP IS NOT the better fantasy category. In fact it is much worse. What it does is waters down the importance of the category and waters down the bad play of many. Great example so far this season is Brian dozier, he is hitting around .200 but because of his OBP and great okay elsewhere in fantasy his terrible BA is totally forgotten.

With BA as a category Ballance is the key but with OBP, you can almost just forget about it.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

What it tends to do is make power hitters more valuable snide power hitters tend to walk more. With exceptions.

 

[TREFF]

What it tends to do is make power hitters more valuable snide power hitters tend to walk more. With exceptions.

Adam Dunn says thank you. .. And I whole heartedly agree

 

[TKOSpikes]

Good point Milk, hard to argue. I would think all our minds were on the gain of using OBP, without thinking of the loss from AVG... I think the problem is that standard leagues are 5x5. What is stopping all leagues to incorporate both? I don't know why all FBB leagues can't just default to 7x7.

 

[tlance]

Good point Milk, hard to argue. I would think all our minds were on the gain of using OBP, without thinking of the loss from AVG... I think the problem is that standard leagues are 5x5. What is stopping all leagues to incorporate both? I don't know why all FBB leagues can't just default to 7x7.

I totally and whole heartedly disagree.

The whole point of using OBP is that players help their real life teams when they reach base, whether it is via the walk or a hit. Why use a metric that only counts some of the time that players reach base? That makes no sense.

All other stats roughly equal, which player helps his team more?

Player A- BA .250, OBP .375
Player B- BA .300, OBP .325

There is no doubt that player A will help his team more than player B. Why should a single be fantasy relevant and a walk not? Advanced metrics have proven that walks are almost equally valuable.

While it is true that some players like Dunn and Dozier receive a boost in OBP leagues, they deserve it. The flipside is that players like Adam Jones who refuse to take walks get tremendously overvalued in BA leagues. The reality is that Jay Bruce is just as good a baseball player (maybe better).

 

[tlance]

In 5X5 categories there has been a debate on which is the better use. In fact in the SportsHoopla fantasy leagues we had a vote on it and OBP won. And I was one who voted for OBP.

The reason everyone gave was because OBP is the better stat and it takes into account walks.

After a couple weeks of play in a couple leagues now that all use OBP over BA, I must say I was wrong OBP IS NOT the better fantasy category. In fact it is much worse. What it does is waters down the importance of the category and waters down the bad play of many. Great example so far this season is Brian dozier, he is hitting around .200 but because of his OBP and great okay elsewhere in fantasy his terrible BA is totally forgotten.

With BA as a category Ballance is the key but with OBP, you can almost just forget about it.

Why?

Some players get on base more effectively than others. Some are OBP helpers, some are OBP drainers, just like with BA. The difference is that some BA drainers do not hurt OBP and some BA studs hurt OBP. You just need to do a little research to figure out who those guys are.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I totally and whole heartedly disagree.

The whole point of using OBP is that players help their real life teams when they reach base, whether it is via the walk or a hit. Why use a metric that only counts some of the time that players reach base? That makes no sense.

All other stats roughly equal, which player helps his team more?

Player A- BA .250, OBP .375
Player B- BA .300, OBP .325

There is no doubt that player A will help his team more than player B. Why should a single be fantasy relevant and a walk not? Advanced metrics have proven that walks are almost equally valuable.

While it is true that some players like Dunn and Dozier receive a boost in OBP leagues, they deserve it. The flipside is that players like Adam Jones who refuse to take walks get tremendously overvalued in BA leagues. The reality is that Jay Bruce is just as good a baseball player (maybe better).

I would agree with this post if the rest of the categories in fantasy were advanced statistics... RBIs and runs are based on teams played, HRs is affected by stadium played... Fantasy statistics are actually not about talent, it is about actual production... So any talk about advanced statistics proving anything means nothing to me when it comes to fantasy numbers...

The problem with OBP is not comparing power hitters to power hitters but power hitters to non power hitters... in 5 categories power already gives the advantage in HRs,RBIs and Runs, why give another category for power to give an advantage??? shouldnt there be at least one category that a specific type of player does not get an advantage?? Yes, there are many non power hitters that draw walks, but generally speaking power draws walks more than any other player...

The problem with OBP is that you are more willing to use players despite there weakness as a player...

Not sure if i made sense or not, but if i didnt then i can explain better if needed...

 

[TREFF]

Well Milk. . I'll just say this one thing. . I'm with ya one this for one reason and one reason only. .I think a hit is more valuable than a walk. . And in OBP, they're valued equally. . Which I feel is fundamentally wrong. . Regardless who what type of hitter does what in regards to drawing walks.

 

[Microwahevo]

Why should a hit be more valuable? Both are allowing a man to get on base. Sure, with a hit you can drive in runs more frequently if men are on base, but the object is to get on base, however you can.

I've never played in a roto league before, but I am liking the OBP category. My $.02

 

[broncosmitty]

In 5X5 categories there has been a debate on which is the better use. In fact in the SportsHoopla fantasy leagues we had a vote on it and OBP won. And I was one who voted for OBP.

The reason everyone gave was because OBP is the better stat and it takes into account walks.

After a couple weeks of play in a couple leagues now that all use OBP over BA, I must say I was wrong OBP IS NOT the better fantasy category. In fact it is much worse. What it does is waters down the importance of the category and waters down the bad play of many. Great example so far this season is Brian dozier, he is hitting around .200 but because of his OBP and great okay elsewhere in fantasy his terrible BA is totally forgotten.

With BA as a category Ballance is the key but with OBP, you can almost just forget about it.

I'll trade ya Dozier... but keep in mind, he's my boy. Joey Votto annoys with OBP more. Fugger'd rather take a walk than drive in a run.

 

[TREFF]

Why should a hit be more valuable? Both are allowing a man to get on base. Sure, with a hit you can drive in runs more frequently if men are on base, but the object is to get on base, however you can.

I've never played in a roto league before, but I am liking the OBP category. My $.02

That's pretty much why.

I guess I'd put it this way. . If we're assigning point values. .A hit, imho, would be worth 1..A Walk, 0.75. (Btw, reaching base by way of error should be 0.50 but that's counted as a negative in both formats for some reason).
So it's not like I'm saying a hit is leaps and bounds better. . But it is better

 

[Microwahevo]

That's pretty much why.

Ok. And I understand. I just think walks matter as well. It shouldn't be disregarded.

 

[TREFF]

Yeah. . This is similar to my dislike of the QS.. It's not the validity of the stat itself that bothers me, but the parameters in which it's calculated that I don't agree with.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

my problem, is that we are blinded with our dislike of a stat... Because OBP is a "better" stat in real life does not mean it is a better stat in fantasy!!!

Maybe it is the way i have always defined fantasy baseball, but i just think BA is better because it is more unforgiving(it is easier to hide bad OBP than bad BA)... BA is also an unbiased statistic towards the type of player- doesnt matter if you are a power or speed player...

 

[tlance]

my problem, is that we are blinded with our dislike of a stat... Because OBP is a "better" stat in real life does not mean it is a better stat in fantasy!!!

Maybe it is the way i have always defined fantasy baseball, but i just think BA is better because it is more unforgiving(it is easier to hide bad OBP than bad BA)... BA is also an unbiased statistic towards the type of player- doesnt matter if you are a power or speed player...

Not true. OBP is not an advanced stat by any stretch of the imagination. It is just more realistic than BA. I agree that hits are slightly more valuable than walks because of the RBI possibility, but that is already taken into consideration since RBI is a separate cat.

You a pigeon holing certain players. There are plenty of power hitters that do not walk and also plenty of speed guys who do. OBP favors superior hitters, just as it should. BA is every bit as biased (maybe more so), but the difference is that is what you are used to. Walking is a skill.

 

[broncosmitty]

I see your point MS. But when were confined to 5x5 on account of it being free, I think OBP wins, as it "tells" more. (The real life values arent even close imo. I got after a kid I coach last night when he started talking about his batting averge. Which Im witholding from the group until atleast one of them is over .300) Not having doubles and triples count for anything other than an uptick in OBP kinda gets to me too. As I value guys with extra base potential more, even when Im trying not to. If it helps any Dozier is still my worst OBP guy in both leagues were in.

 

[obxyankeefan]

I like OBP better. Nothing drives me up the wall in a weekly roto and BA comes down to that last AB on sunday night and the batter walks. With BA it is like your guy never even got to bat. EX tonight Yusiel Puig is 0 for 1 with 3 walks. in a BA league you are charged an AB and that is it even though he got on base three times.




While typing this Puig just struckout.

 

[tlance]

I like OBP better. Nothing drives me up the wall in a weekly roto and BA comes down to that last AB on sunday night and the batter walks. With BA it is like your guy never even got to bat. EX tonight Yusiel Puig is 0 for 1 with 3 walks. in a BA league you are charged an AB and that is it even though he got on base three times.




While typing this Puig just struckout.

Well said! I hate that too. Why should Puig's performance hurt your fantasy team when a guy who goes 1 for 4 with a single does not?

 

[MilkSpiller22]

did a little research: took the top 358 offensive players. using 2014 Projected stats

253 of the 358 had there BA .25=<X<.3

259 of the 358 had there OBP .3<=x<.35

90 are less than 2.5 BA

52 are less than .3 OBP

of the 47 players with OBP .35 or better only 8 players would not have been drafted in the first 12 rounds anyway... 3 of those 8 are catchers, so in a 1 catcher league those 3 would not be drafted...


What this shows to me, is that there are much less players that can hurt your OBP than there are that can hurt your BA... The problem with that is that there is less of a deterent to draft someone... and if there is minimum deterent then there will be limited reasons to

 

[broncosmitty]

What?