More fuel for the fire that is to burn Marleau for the witch hunt

[Cbrower91]

Kawakami: It's time for San Jose Sharks to part ways with Patrick Marleau - San Jose Mercury News

 

[Mr. Teal]

Validation!

 

[Mr. Teal]

We'll be sure to throw him a nice ceremony when he retires so he can bring out his kids and wife before the crowd but let's face it, for the bank we're paying him, the dude's more dud than stud.

 

[Cbrower91]

I honestly hope he gets traded so when this team struggles even worse everyone will finally understand he wasn't the problem

 

[sjrules99]

I honestly hope he gets traded so when this team struggles even worse everyone will finally understand he wasn't the problem

If dougie throws his 7M at 3 more handzuses, then you'll be dead on and his 30 goals will be sorely missed. however, if he uses it to sign suter for the long term, you'll be totally wrong.

if patty, murray, and zues were gone, the should would suddenly have over 20M in cap space and the only needs would be for 1 top 6 forward, a few respectable 3rd liners, and one physical rock on D.

Suter would be a massive upgrade on D and would likely help a ton with the PK issues (along with a new system of course). With a reasonable set of 3rd liners, patty's 30 goals can be replaced by committee. 5-10 more from several players. Guys like kelly, Stempniak and the like can pick up that slack since they will all score more than zues or mitchell. the upgraded 3rd line will more than make up for missing patty. The problem this year is that the sharks lost seto and heater and their one replacement scored 7 goals in an injuyr riddled year. However, equally damaging is that they lost wellwood who had more goals and points in his 35 games than all of galiardi, moore and winnik combined in their 58 games total. Hell, even torrey mitchell looked respectable much more with wellwood and pavs on the third line.

The third line was the biggest difference between this year and last. Even if patty goes, if dougie does a much better job bringing in offensive depth, then it should not be a problem, and if themoney savings goes to suter, then patty would surely not be missed.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

As proved this year, no one will help the PK issues until the system is changed. The Sharks had 5 (Marleau, Pavelski, Moore, Winnik, Handzus) of the top 20 Pk forards in the league from the 10/11 season and still had problems.

 

[filosofy29]

As proved this year, no one will help the PK issues until the system is changed. The Sharks had 5 (Marleau, Pavelski, Moore, Winnik, Handzus) of the top 20 Pk forards in the league from the 10/11 season and still had problems.

Are any of the rest of you worried about the Sharks signing Suter to a long term contract for big money? I'm ok with him at around $6M, but nothing more. He's great defensively and he's good with the transition pass, but he gets a lot of his points on the PP (3 of his 7 goals and 22 of his 39 assists and 54% of his total points). The Sharks PP doesn't have anybody who goes to the net like Patric Hornqvist, Mike Fisher or David Legwand. Also, I'm guessing quite a few of the 22 PP assists were passing the puck over to Shea Weber to blast home. Sure we have Burns, but the same problems still exist.....what players on the Sharks are going to create the screens? On the Preds, he's worth $7.5M per year or whatever it is he'll get on the open market.....on this team, not so much in my humble opinion. I'd rather just go after Weber for that type of money (I know, big surprise). The most non-PP goals he's ever had in a season was 7. Look what happened to Brent Burns goal totals when he didn't have a PP with people who go to the net. He dropped from 17 goals total to 11 goals total and from 8 PP goals down to 5 PP goals.

Don't get me wrong, I think Suter is a hell of a player and that he'll be worth his contract to many other teams.....just not on this team. In order for him to be successful on the Sharks, I think they'd (the Sharks) need a complete roster makeover. On this team, I think he'd be closer to a Vlasic level points wise. This team just isn't built for his talents. Sure he'd help the rush wish his good outlet passes, but the Sharks forwards don't have any speed and when they do enter the zone, they pull up and wait for a trailer.....and like said, the most non-PP goals he's ever had was 7. Sure he'd help overall team defense and the PK (but what if the Sharks keep the same coaching staff???), but do we really want to pay someone like this $7.5M long term? If the Sharks get rid of Marleau to do this, then they lose even more speed and transition up front. I think Suter should (and will) go to Detroit if Lidstrom retires.

If the Sharks can trade some of the high priced vets and get the right type of forwards in here, I'd be all for getting Suter.....if not.....

Am I wrong here?

My perfect offseason would be

To MTL: Patrick Marleau and Doug Murray
To SJ: Tomas Kaberle, MTL's 1st overall pick in 2012 and Danny Kristo

To CLB: Joe Thornton
To SJ: Ryan Johansen and the 2nd overall pick.

Then sign a shit load of fast, gritty forwards who crash the net and play responsibly on both ends of the rink.



And yes, my drugs are working perfectly.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

The Sharks desperately need puck moving ability from the left side of their defense and Suter is one of the better puck movers in the league. He's also top tier defensively something the Sharks could also use. I doubt he'd drop to Vlasic type offensive numbers. 35-45 point range depending on the PP set up is more realistic.

This is just my take on the situation but if Suter is signed it's a move to get younger and extend the teams window for success. I would expect Boyle to be moved out while he still has fair value possibly bringing in some help up front.

 

[Ray_Dogg]

Highest I would go for Suter is $7.5 per and that is really pushing it.

 

[sjrules99]

Are any of the rest of you worried about the Sharks signing Suter to a long term contract for big money? I'm ok with him at around $6M, but nothing more. He's great defensively and he's good with the transition pass, but he gets a lot of his points on the PP (3 of his 7 goals and 22 of his 39 assists and 54% of his total points). The Sharks PP doesn't have anybody who goes to the net like Patric Hornqvist, Mike Fisher or David Legwand. Also, I'm guessing quite a few of the 22 PP assists were passing the puck over to Shea Weber to blast home. Sure we have Burns, but the same problems still exist.....what players on the Sharks are going to create the screens? On the Preds, he's worth $7.5M per year or whatever it is he'll get on the open market.....on this team, not so much in my humble opinion. I'd rather just go after Weber for that type of money (I know, big surprise). The most non-PP goals he's ever had in a season was 7. Look what happened to Brent Burns goal totals when he didn't have a PP with people who go to the net. He dropped from 17 goals total to 11 goals total and from 8 PP goals down to 5 PP goals.

Don't get me wrong, I think Suter is a hell of a player and that he'll be worth his contract to many other teams.....just not on this team. In order for him to be successful on the Sharks, I think they'd (the Sharks) need a complete roster makeover. On this team, I think he'd be closer to a Vlasic level points wise. This team just isn't built for his talents. Sure he'd help the rush wish his good outlet passes, but the Sharks forwards don't have any speed and when they do enter the zone, they pull up and wait for a trailer.....and like said, the most non-PP goals he's ever had was 7. Sure he'd help overall team defense and the PK (but what if the Sharks keep the same coaching staff???), but do we really want to pay someone like this $7.5M long term? If the Sharks get rid of Marleau to do this, then they lose even more speed and transition up front. I think Suter should (and will) go to Detroit if Lidstrom retires.

If the Sharks can trade some of the high priced vets and get the right type of forwards in here, I'd be all for getting Suter.....if not.....

Am I wrong here?

My perfect offseason would be

To MTL: Patrick Marleau and Doug Murray
To SJ: Tomas Kaberle, MTL's 1st overall pick in 2012 and Danny Kristo

To CLB: Joe Thornton
To SJ: Ryan Johansen and the 2nd overall pick.

Then sign a shit load of fast, gritty forwards who crash the net and play responsibly on both ends of the rink.



And yes, my drugs are working perfectly.

I would pay suter 8M per for 6 years in a heartbeat. Its not so much the points on the PP, or the like, but the two-way play, age, physicality, and minute eating ability that I love. he has no points thus far, but plays 28 mins/game in shutting down the wings so badly that babcock complained of his team's lack of depth (which is rediculous IMO). During the year, he played nearly 27 mins/game of dominant two-way play. he may only have 21 EV points, but he was a +15 (2nd only to weber), and played in all situations excellently.

he ranks 7th among all players in TOI/gm in the PO's after being 3rd overall in the league during the regular season. Only Campbell and Keith played more.

Respectable forwards are not all that rare. However, #1 Dmen and guys who play that kind of ice are extraordinarily rare. Suter, Boyle, and Burns can easily eat up an average of 26+ mins each, meaning we dont have to rely as much on rookies or pylons. Imagien the difference in the sharks if Murray and White's minutes combined were taken by suter. It would be huge.

In short, give him the money and create a core defensive tandem of suter and burns for years to come.

 

[sjrules99]

Also, Id love to get a super cheap top 6 F and top D prospect for marleau if possible.

My ideal options would be Marleau to:

a. TOR for Bozak, Franson, and mid rounder (3rd or 4th)

b. MTL for Subban and Eller

c. CLB for Johansen and 2nd round pick (the 2nd overall pick would be nice, but I doubt we could get it)

d. DET (gasp) for Nyquist and Smith.

I would even go with to CGY for bouwmeester + 1st rounder. One dump for another.

The trade options are out there. DW has a couple things working in his favor.

1. 30-30 guys dont grow on trees and patty isnt THAT old at 33.

2. The UFA market sucks. The onl 3 UFA's-to-be who had more points than patty are ray whitney, who will be 40, teemu who'll be 42, and Parise who EVERYONE will bid for. After that, its Olli Jokinen, who's notoriously poor defensively and a big ?, Alex Semin (see: jokinen), Jagr (See: Selanne/whitney), Doan (PHO will resign him I gotta think), Hudler (DET will likely resign but even if not, he's no marleau), Sullivan (injury prone and old), Wellwood (hahaha)...

Basically, Parise is the only legit top liner in the UFA pool who isnt 40+ or have major questions about him. That means that marleau will be desired, even at his cap hit, especially since he can play C or W. Teams will be willing to trade for him, so if dougie wants to move him and he waives his NTC, very good deals are out there.

 

[filosofy29]

The Sharks desperately need puck moving ability from the left side of their defense and Suter is one of the better puck movers in the league. He's also top tier defensively something the Sharks could also use. I doubt he'd drop to Vlasic type offensive numbers. 35-45 point range depending on the PP set up is more realistic.

This is just my take on the situation but if Suter is signed it's a move to get younger and extend the teams window for success. I would expect Boyle to be moved out while he still has fair value possibly bringing in some help up front.

I'm all for puck moving ability on the left side. Like I said, I really like Suter a ton. I'd even offer 7 years $42M (and front load it if I had to). I just don't like that $7.5M - $8M cap hit it's likely going to take. I love his defensive ability, I love his PK ability.....I just think 35pts would be the max* we could expect for him here (*as the team is currently constructed). As a defensive partner and PP Partner, Burns is no Weber. The Sharks have a good PP, but nothing that even comes close to resemble the Preds style (i.e. - no net front presence to screen the goalie and no guys who go to the net looking for rebounds). He doesn't have a rocket shot (although his shot isn't bad at all, it's definitely above average) and he doesn't create a lot of his own scoring opportunities from what I've seen.

I'd be ok with that. I really like Boyle (even though he had a down season in my opinion), but he's getting up there in age and minutes played and his tenacity in the defensive end isn't making up for his size like it used to. I'd assume DWil would only send him to a playoff team though out East (as DWil is classy like that). If the Mike Green/Dennis Wideman re-signing thing doesn't work out, It would be awesome to get a package like Troy Brouwer, Jason Chimera and a 2nd Rounder.

Highest I would go for Suter is $7.5 per and that is really pushing it.

I wouldn't even go that high. If my team is Detroit (I agree with you), hell yeah, here's your $7.5M check Mr. Suter. When my team is the Sharks (*again as they are currently constructed) and they don't seem to mesh well (in my humble opinion) with the parts I have.....no way.

 

[caliraftdude]

I think Tim will get some shit for that but Bravo-Zulu for having the stones to state it in clean, logical, and fair terms.

However, that being said - we CANNOT trade him away and get the shit we got for Heatley. Havlat's a fine addition when a crowd of horses and men are frantically re-assembling his broken pieces.. and that happens way too often. We need a pair of Logans (in the making of course) in return. Otherwise we are going to be the same lump of shit that just scores less goals and misses the playoffs. Marleau is *A* problem but he is not *THE* problem in San Jose and trading him away can easily make things worse (see 2011-2012 season) than better.

 

[sjrules99]

I think Tim will get some shit for that but Bravo-Zulu for having the stones to state it in clean, logical, and fair terms.

However, that being said - we CANNOT trade him away and get the shit we got for Heatley. Havlat's a fine addition when a crowd of horses and men are frantically re-assembling his broken pieces.. and that happens way too often. We need a pair of Logans (in the making of course) in return. Otherwise we are going to be the same lump of shit that just scores less goals and misses the playoffs. Marleau is *A* problem but he is not *THE* problem in San Jose and trading him away can easily make things worse (see 2011-2012 season) than better.

havlat+2.5M free cap space was a great return, until that space went all to a 35 year old total bum quite unaptly named after a god. Havlat+zues is not a great return. The good news is that dougie likely wont fuck up again by signing some over the hump, oldie for that kind of money. The 1 yr deals for 1M each to vandy and white are very low risk deals, but 5M to zues was totally idiotic. You live, you learn...

Trading marleau oculd be good or bad depending 100% on the return. trading him for another old, overpaid POS would accomplish nothing. Trading him for some picks mgiht be nice in 4 years, but would likely hurt next year, even with the replacement cap space. However, trading him for some good young talent who can step in next year with low cap hits AND using the cap savings to bring in solid younger players in the 20's would help retool rather than rebuild.

This summer is the biggest test of doug wilson's tenure as GM. He came in after a disaster 2002-3 season and quite low expectations. He has raised those expectations to a level that is hard to sustain and with his team having a relatively poor year by sharks standards, pretty much all year, dougie has to figure out how to keep the ball rolling and keep the team competitive while still building for the future.

Trying to compete for the cup while remaking your roster and inserting a lot of youth with no farm system is a seriously difficult task. Philly kinda did it last summer with the carter and richards moves to bring in voracek, simmonds, schenn, and picks, but that took serious balls. So, will dougie have the balls and the skill to pave his vets and maintain a strong roster???

Gunna be one interesting summer.

 

[Ray_Dogg]

This is a better place for it:

Marleau was also asked if he would consider waiving his NTC. He said: "We'll cross that bridge if it ever comes up."

 

[naes666]

If the Sharks can trade some of the high priced vets and get the right type of forwards in here, I'd be all for getting Suter.....if not.....

Am I wrong here?

My perfect offseason would be

To MTL: Patrick Marleau and Doug Murray
To SJ: Tomas Kaberle, MTL's 1st overall pick in 2012 and Danny Kristo

To CLB: Joe Thornton
To SJ: Ryan Johansen and the 2nd overall pick.

Then sign a shit load of fast, gritty forwards who crash the net and play responsibly on both ends of the rink.



And yes, my drugs are working perfectly.

the drugs seemed to kick in right before that 2nd trade idea...

i don't think the Sharks will sign any of the guys people want...Doug will always get the wrong people which is why he should be fired even though he probably won't be.

:ss:

 

[Cbrower91]

Marleau for Jordan Staal lol

 

[23sharks]

Marleau for Jordan Staal lol

Nah, I'd want Malkin in that deal too. LOL.

 

[sjrules99]

OK... I officially lost all respect for doug wilson.

The general manager said the two February deals that brought Dominic Moore, Daniel Winnik and TJ Galiardi were a result of the team’s poor play on the nine-game road trip in which they went 2-6-1.

“We had to change something because we’re not about to surrender. If we don’t change something, we’re not about to make the playoffs,” Wilson said. “I think those players helped us at a time we needed to do something.”

When he made the moore deal, the sharks were 1-1-1 on the road trip. They were comfortably in first with a 31-17-7 record. Then he dealt mcginn, the only forward on the bottom six who was anything resembling an offensive threat for galiardi who was a humongous bust and winnik, who is a reasonable 4th liner.

Now he says that those deals helped? So I guess their 12-12-3 record since the moore deals helped avoid missing the playoffs..What a fucking idiot. Just be a man, admit that you fucked up, that your deals were ill-advised and you will not do those kind of dumbass moves again.

 

[Cbrower91]

Marleau on whether being criticized for not showing enough emotion:

“If it wasn’t that, they’d find something else.”

amen to that lol