Minnesota #1? Why not?!

[fredsdeadfriend]

OMG. You are delusional!
Records aren't comparable.
Overall PJ (2017-2021) 35-23 or 0.6034
Overall Dabo (2009-2013) 47-20 or 0.7015

Schedules and results aren't comparable.
PJ 3-11 vs ranked opponents (#3, #6, #7, #9, #11, #14, #15, #15, #16, #17, #18, #21, #23, and #25)
Dabo-8-12 vs ranked opponents (#1, #1, #4, #6, #8, #9, #10, #12, #13, #13, #14, #17, #17, #19, #21, #21, #22, #23, #23, and #25)
PJ 24-11 vs P5 unranked
Dabo 29-7 vs P5 unranked.

Of course you add UMn's 2020 covid affected season and then exclude Dabo's 1st season in 2008 so you can add his best early season of 2013 when he finally got to 11 wins.

I did not include the 2020 season as Minnesota only played 7 games, all conference games, during a crazy season screwed up totally by all the inconsistency from covid related issues, hardly fair to include that season in an honest comparison of the two coaches beginnings at each school and how they progressed.

 

[DetroitDevil]

Lots of people care, because getting underrated hurts come bowl season.

It's bad enough that now both Wisc and Iowa will be unranked when we beat them, most likely. Only team that might be ranked in the west other than us is Purdue or Illinois maybe, and they might drop out of the rankings as soon as we beat them if they do somehow get ranked before we play them?

So our eos ranking could depend heavily upon how we do against MSU, PSU and if we get there, the East Div rep in the Conf Title game.

Because beating Col, Iowa, Wisc, Purdue, Ill, NW, Rutgers & Nebraska alone probably won't get us ranked. Beating Colorado like we did last year might get us a few more votes, but if we lose to MSU, we'll likely not receive any votes, unless we keep it really close. Then if we lose to PSU, we'll lose any votes we may have gotten before the game, because 5-2 with no quality wins won't impress anyone. Then, even rattling off 3 straight wins going into the Iowa game won't get us ranked, even at 8-2. If Iowa sucks as bad as they looked in weeks 1 and 2, beating them will only be significant to Gopher fans, and then beating Wisc to finish 10-2 might finally get us ranked, just because they won't want to put too many 4 loss teams ahead of us.


So we should care, or we'll get paired with another 6-6 team in some schmuck bowl as not one single non-Gopher fan will respect us if we go 0-3 vs the B1G East heavyweights and 95% of Gopher fans won't either. You may argue it shouldn't matter, because going 0-3 vs those teams will mean we don't deserve a better bowl opponent, but I have to disagree. Mich/OSU are both ranked Top 4 right now, MSU is only Top 15, but could easily move up into the Top 10, by the time we play them and PSU could move up into the Top 15 as well if they beat Auburn and at least keep it close vs Michigan, or if they pull off an upset of Michigan, all 4 teams could end up in the Top 10 by the time we play PSU. So losing to 3 Top Ten teams shouldn't relegate us to irrelevancy just because the rest of the West Div decided to suck this year, so the Gophers need all the help they can get from the pollsters in case the above scenario comes to pass.

Granted, I personally believe we'll beat one, if not both PSU and MSU and I hope at least one other West Div team creeps up into the rankings by the time we play them. But even a win over PSU might not help a ton as Auburn isn't even getting votes I don't think? So PSU might not get ranked unless they beat us? So little things like how we are perceived before playing the MSU could matter a lot?

 

[Gator]

Of course you add UMn's 2020 covid affected season and then exclude Dabo's 1st season in 2008 so you can add his best early season of 2013 when he finally got to 11 wins.

I did not include the 2020 season as Minnesota only played 7 games, all conference games, during a crazy season screwed up totally by all the inconsistency from covid related issues, hardly fair to include that season in an honest comparison of the two coaches beginnings at each school and how they progressed.

You are such a butt-munch. As far as Clemson playing a pasty ACC schedule that's a joke! Dabo has played 12 IN confence AP ranked teams and so has PJ but Dabo played 8 OOC AP ranked teams to PJ's 2.

I will not remove the games from 2020 just because Minnesota sucked that year. UM's in conference record under PJ is 21-22 (his record in 2020 was 3-4). The only difference was that UM didn't get to pad their record with a patsy OOC schedule that year! In 2020 Minnesota played 7 games and therefore they count. I will start the Dabo record on game-seven of the 2008 season and end them after the 2012 season (even though Dabo was only the interim HC until the bowl game 2008). Here are the NEW numbers and NOT much has changed!

Records aren't comparable.
Overall PJ (2017-2021) 35-23 or 0.6034
Overall Dabo (G7 2008-2012) 40-21 or 0.6557

Schedules and results aren't comparable.
PJ 3-11 vs ranked opponents (#3, #6, #7, #9, #11, #14, #15, #15, #16, #17, #18, #21, #23, and #25)
Dabo-7-12 vs ranked opponents (#1, #6, #8, #9, #10, #13, #13, #14, #17, #17, #19, #21, #21, #21, #22, #22, #23, #23, and #25)
PJ 24-11 vs P5 unranked
Dabo 25-8 vs P5 unranked.

Dabo just signed a 10 year/$110M contract. Where are the people that are offering PJ that kind of money?

 

[PIBuckeye]

Doesn't change the fact that UMn's possibly the most balanced team in the nation, and likely the best in the B1G West.

Lot of teams played 2 crappy teams so far but none of them have done what Minnesota has done. #1 in total offense and #1 or #2 in total defense. Kicker hasn't missed a kick. #2 in rushing the ball, #2 in stopping the rush & #2 in stopping the pass. This week's passing performance would have ranked #12 in the country had it occurred last weekend. That's a very balanced team.


Minnesota barely beat 2 of it's ooc opponents in 2019 and went on to win 11 games, and they lost to Bowling Green last year and still won 9 games. Not only have they outscored their opponents this season so far 100-10, they did that with ease, with starters starting to come out after just one series in the 2nd half in both games. NINE different players ran the ball in this game, all 9 gaining positive yards and 5 averaging over 5 yards per carry, even Georgia can't make that claim against the crappy team they played.


Of course UMn won't be truly tested until they play MSU and later PSU, Purdue, Iowa and UW, but what I saw of UW in last year's game and now this week's loss to WSU, that should be an easy win for UMn, same after seeing how pathetic Iowa's offense has been both games this year, another easy win. Those other 3 will be challenging but I can see the Gophers winning at least one of those if not all 3. Then Michigan or OSU will be a very tough challenge and a game the Gophers probably won't be able to win, but you never know?

#1 in the B1G West?
Sure, why not. I’m on board with that

 

[Wamu]

Minnesota # 1 in the country?




The homerism never stops with Minnesota's # 1 super-fan.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

You are such a butt-munch. As far as Clemson playing a pasty ACC schedule that's a joke! Dabo has played 12 IN confence AP ranked teams and so has PJ but Dabo played 8 OOC AP ranked teams to PJ's 2.

I will not remove the games from 2020 just because Minnesota sucked that year. UM's in conference record under PJ is 21-22 (his record in 2020 was 3-4). The only difference was that UM didn't get to pad their record with a patsy OOC schedule that year! In 2020 Minnesota played 7 games and therefore they count. I will start the Dabo record on game-seven of the 2008 season and end them after the 2012 season (even though Dabo was only the interim HC until the bowl game 2008). Here are the NEW numbers and NOT much has changed!

Records aren't comparable.
Overall PJ (2017-2021) 35-23 or 0.6034
Overall Dabo (G7 2008-2012) 40-21 or 0.6557

Schedules and results aren't comparable.
PJ 3-11 vs ranked opponents (#3, #6, #7, #9, #11, #14, #15, #15, #16, #17, #18, #21, #23, and #25)
Dabo-7-12 vs ranked opponents (#1, #6, #8, #9, #10, #13, #13, #14, #17, #17, #19, #21, #21, #21, #22, #22, #23, #23, and #25)
PJ 24-11 vs P5 unranked
Dabo 25-8 vs P5 unranked.

Dabo just signed a 10 year/$110M contract. Where are the people that are offering PJ that kind of money?

Well, I'm not going to argue with you endlessly about this as it's like politics, you are just trying to win the argument and couldn't care less about the truth. Your last line is plenty of evidence of that. Dabo's been the head coach at Clemson for 14 full seasons & half of 2008 and you think it's fair to compare what he's being offered salary wise to what Fleck is making after only 4 full seasons and that bs covid half season? That proves you don't care about the truth and only about winning a stupid online debate.


Because I can manipulate things, too. Only full seasons counted, and no 1st seasons leaves us with,

dabo's 2nd, 3rd and 4th seasons producing only 25 wins and only a 7-7 record vs teams getting votes in the AP poll with no wins vs anyone ranked better than 19th in the country and with a 1-2 bowl record despite only one of their opponents being ranked.
vs
Fleck's 2nd, 3rd and 5th seasons producing 27 wins and a 6-6 record vs teams getting votes in the AP poll with THREE wins vs teams ranked better than 19th in the country. 9th ranked Penn St and 18th ranked Fresno St. in the regular season and 3-0 in bowls including a win over 14th ranked Auburn.

I'd say Fleck EASILY matched Dabo's early head coaching career accomplishments and even exceeded them.





The only reason Clemson played more ranked teams is because it's division was so weak, there was almost no competition so Clemson was able to get into the Conf title game 2 of those 3 seasons with only an 8-4 record in 2009, then they proceeded to lose to an unranked team in their bowl game in 2010, who was it? USF??? lol Wow, so NOT impressed. And then a 9-3 record in 2011, and another bowl game loss, to a ranked WV at least this time. Clemson DID improve under Dabo from his 2nd full season going forward, but not anymore than Fleck has at Minnesota if you are being honest about it and not taking advantage of the bs covid season.

Fleck actually had to BEAT 3 Top 18 ranked teams just to get into the bowl games he got them into, along with 3 other teams getting votes, all 3 bowl games they won, btw, while their 10-2 & 8-4 seasons didn't get them into conf championship games like they would of in Clemson's weak ass division.


And you want to make comments about the Gopher's not being able to pad their record in 2020 with lowly ooc games? LMAO, Let's take a look at how Dabo and Clemson padded it's schedule over those 3 years.



Middle Tennessee State, Coastal Carolina, unranked Kentucky & an unranked S Carolina unfortunately only garnered Clemson 3 ooc wins in 2009.
North Texas, PRESBYTERIAN, unranked USF & a #22 S Carolina this time, unfortunately only garnered Clemson 2 ooc wins in 2010.
Troy, fcs Wofford, not Top 25 Auburn finally rendered Clemson 3 ooc wins in 2011, but that didn't help them beat #17 ranked WV, in Dabo's best season up to this point.



5-6 fcs Coastal Carolina in 2009
10-3 Middle Tennessee in 2009
7-6 Kentucky in 2009, only 7-5 before the bowl game, Dabo's ONLY bowl win in this 3 yr period, his ONLY thru 2011, he lost to Neb in 08, too.
3-9 North Texas in 2010
2-9 fcs PRESBYTERIAN in 2010
8-5 USF, in 2010, only 7-5 going into the bowl game, a loss
3-9 Troy in 2011
8-4 fcs Wofford in 2011, that's THREE fcs chumps in those 3 seasons, in case you didn't know Dabo likes his creampuffs, too.

2-10 Maryland in 2009, a loss
3-9 Virginia in 2009
5-7 Wake Forest in 2009
5-7 NCSU in 2009
7-6 FSU in 2009, who somehow got votes in the AP poll? Who is one of those 7 wins in that 7-7 record I mentioned, just for some perspective.
3-9 Wake Forest in 2010
6-7 Georgia Tech in 2010,
7-6 Boston College in 2010, a loss
7-6 Miami in 2010, a loss3-0
2-10 Maryland in 2011
4-8 Boston College in 2011
6-7 Wake Forest in 2011
7-6 UNC in 2011

that's 17-4 vs that bunch of losers from 2009-2011. That's 64% of his wins!!!


And only 6 wins over teams getting votes in the AP poll NOT on this list, and NONE vs anyone ranked better than 19th.


They also lost to an 8-5 UNC in 2010, a UNC who got their wins vs in division rivals with 3-9 & 4-8 records, the other 6 came from 6-7 Clemson, 4-8 Rutgers, 6-7 ECU, fcs Will & Mary, a fluke win over 10-4 FSU & 6-7 Tennessee. I say fluke because they lost to 6-7 GT and 7-6 Miami. I bring this game up as it's just another example of how weak the frigging ACC is/has been. I mean two of Clemson's losses in 2011, it's best year under Dabo to that point, were to 8-5 NCSU and 8-5 GT.


Only game not listed or mentioned in 2009 was a win over 8-5 unranked BC.
Only game not listed or mentioned in 2011 was the win over non-Top 25 8-5 Auburn.

These 2, plus the 6 wins over teams ranked 19, 21, 21, 23, 23 & 25 equals 8, plus the 17 listed above equal the 25 glorious wins of the building up to greatness era of Dabo at Clemson.

NOTHING of note really.


How you feel his first 3 full non-covid hampered seasons were so much more glorious than Flecks 2nd, 3rd and 5th seasons is beyond me.

Fleck had 2 more wins in total and FOUR fewer losses, and Fleck went 3-0 in bowl games while Dabo went 1-2. Fleck had 1 Top 10, 2 Top 15 and 3 Top 20 wins vs just one win over a #19 ranked team for Dabo.



Now if you don't like that I've counted Dabo's 2008 season as his first season, on par with Fleck's 2017 season being disregarded, well, fine, take out Dabo's first FULL year as well, do the same analysis for the years 2010-2012 and STILL Fleck had one less loss, a 3-0 bowl record vs 1-2, and 3 Top 20 wins vs 2 for Dabo(a 9, 14 & 18 vs a 14 and a 19). But sure, Dabo gained two more Top Ten losses, so still 0fer against Top Ten teams, something Fleck can't claim.


Don't like that analysis? Want to add UMn's 2020 season to my first 3 year comparison, then I add Dabo's equally unfair situation in 2008. WHY?? Because both seasons involved the coaches coaching 7 games under less than favorable circumstances, and Dabo'd gain a win and UMn would gain a loss, so now it's 30-16 for Fleck over those 3.5 seasons vs 29-19 for Dabo, still THREE fewer losses, an additional bowl LOSS for Dabo, with 3-0 STILL being much better than 1-3, and only gain a win over a team getting the 31st most votes, losses to #21 ranked FSU, #22 ranked GT & that only getting votes Nebraska in the bowl game & 3 more non-quality wins over 7-6 S Carolina, 5-7 Virg & 4-8 Duke. Those 3 would make that non-quality games record move to 20-4, so now OVER 2/3rds of his wins are of a very non impressive in nature type. He moves to 8-10 vs teams getting votes. I didn't want to include 2008 as Dabo was as responsible for losing with another coaches players as Fleck was for losing with a team riddled with players who couldn't play because of an outside force that hit some colleges much worse than others for whatever various reasons.



Face it chump, my comparing Fleck's developing era at UMn to Dabo's developing era at Clemson was totally legit.


And so all Fleck has to do here in 2022 to keep pace with Dabo at Clemson back in 2008-2012 era, is to go 10-3/11-2 or better, with this season and 3 more after that to get to the cfp to keep my comparison remaining valid.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

Minnesota # 1 in the country?

View attachment 308053


The homerism never stops with Minnesota's # 1 super-fan.

If you actually read ANY of what I wrote, all I said was #1 in the B1G West, and deserving of being ranked Top 25. But sure, Isaid it in a way that chumps like you would assume I was trying to make an argument for Minnesota deserving the #1 spot in the polls, which I knew would lead to idiots like you making dumb responses like you made.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

How can a team be #1 in total offense and #1 in total defense and not even be ranked in the Top 25?


Minnesota could be the most balanced team in the nation? lol

Giving you the cliff notes WAMU.

 

[Wamu]

If you actually read ANY of what I wrote, all I said was #1 in the B1G West, and deserving of being ranked Top 25. But sure, Isaid it in a way that chumps like you would assume I was trying to make an argument for Minnesota deserving the #1 spot in the polls, which I knew would lead to idiots like you making dumb responses like you made.

Hey crazy fella as soon as you can finally admit to yourself you're one of, if not the worst, over the top homer about all things Minnesota the better you'll feel.

You're in the SportsHoopla homer HOF.

Seriously fucking with you because of you nonstop homerism is always fun entertainment. Minnesota isn't as elite as you pretend they are.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

Doesn't change the fact that UMn's possibly the most balanced team in the nation, and likely the best in the B1G West.

And my 2nd post in the thread. NEVER trust a headline dude, haven't you learned anything from the internet? Headlines are meant to grab your attention, an intelligent person, which you are probably not WAMU, reads the actual article to see what's really being said.

 

[Wamu]

Giving you the cliff notes WAMU.

Well to answer you question how can Minnesota not be ranked right now?


I'll answer your question with a question. Who have they played?

 

[Wamu]

And my 2nd post in the thread. NEVER trust a headline dude, haven't you learned anything from the internet? Headlines are meant to grab your attention, an intelligent person, which you are probably not WAMU, reads the actual article to see what's really being said.

Oh holy shit you're having a conversation with yourself.

 

[Wamu]

@Black Adam

You got any popcorn?

Freddy's talking to himself.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

Hey crazy fella as soon as you can finally admit to yourself you're one of, if not the worst, over the top homer about all things Minnesota the better you'll feel.

You're in the SportsHoopla homer HOF.

Seriously fucking with you because of you nonstop homerism is always fun entertainment. Minnesota isn't as elite as you pretend they are.

Minnesota is not well balanced?

Minnesota is not RIGHT NOW, the favorite to win the B1G West?

Watch some BTN maybe you will see that you are in the minority thinking Minnesota isn't the favorite right now to win the West.


as for that balance, wrs, tes, rbs all catching passes from all 3 qbs who all can run the ball as well. 5 rbs with over 5 yards per carry averages, 6 receivers with over 18 yards per reception averages. A kicker who hasn't missed yet. All 3 qbs rating highly in completion percentage, zero interceptions and yardage gained. Offensive line that's produced over 600 yards in rushing so far and I don't think they've allowed a sack, either?

And the defense is stopping both the run and the pass, making interceptions despite the opponents rarely having the ball.

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

Well to answer you question how can Minnesota not be ranked right now?


I'll answer your question with a question. Who have they played?

Who did any team play when the first Top 25 ranking came out?

Who did 2/3rds of the Top 25 beat in games 1 or games 1 & 2 to remain ranked in the Top 25?

Who have half the Top 25 beaten in their first 2-3 games to remain ranked in the Top 25?

 

[fredsdeadfriend]

Oh holy shit you're having a conversation with yourself.

No, just quoting my OP and my first response to the thread to highlight what claims I've actually made, before liars like you could lie about what I've claimed. lol

 

[Wamu]

Minnesota is not well balanced?

Minnesota is not RIGHT NOW, the favorite to win the B1G West?

Watch some BTN maybe you will see that you are in the minority thinking Minnesota isn't the favorite right now to win the West.


as for that balance, wrs, tes, rbs all catching passes from all 3 qbs who all can run the ball as well. 5 rbs with over 5 yards per carry averages, 6 receivers with over 18 yards per reception averages. A kicker who hasn't missed yet. All 3 qbs rating highly in completion percentage, zero interceptions and yardage gained. Offensive line that's produced over 600 yards in rushing so far and I don't think they've allowed a sack, either?

And the defense is stopping both the run and the pass, making interceptions despite the opponents rarely having the ball.

Again who have they played? New Mexico State & W. Illinois. Next they play CO. And Buffs football has been a dumpster fire pretty much then entire 12 years I've lived in this state.

Let's see what they do in road games against MSU & PSU.

They've played two nobodies. They haven't done anything yet. That's why they aren't ranked.

 

[Black Adam]

@Black Adam

You got any popcorn?

Freddy's talking to himself.

Gotcha covered...

 

[Wamu]

Gotcha covered...

 

[PnkPanther]

Well to answer you question how can Minnesota not be ranked right now?


I'll answer your question with a question. Who have they played?

I'm not sure why he's so upset

I think MN should be around 23-25 but I'm a homer, and I do think they'll finish in the top 20 and that is all that matters to me. I don't care where they are now

Once they do it consistently, htey'll get benefit of the doubt and get ranked for beating nobodies, but they don't currently have that equity and any non idiot knows that, or if they had a name like Nebraska