POLL Lebron James and his all time ranking

[RobToxin]

Sprite in Potato salad?

The fuck is writing with you?

 

[trojanfan12]

I look good in short shorts and go go boots.

Pics or gtfo.

 

[LAD]

How was that making it personal?

Yes rules have changed. It doesn't matter. LeBron is a freak of nature. You are assuming that hand checking and Bad Boy clotheslines would somehow stop him when his greatest singular asset is his athleticism (size, speed, strength combo). If you want to make the case that Steph Curry wouldn't fare as well in the 90s, okay. I think there are counterpoints to that argument, but it is logical. Same for KD as great as he is. LeBron though? No chance. He was literally built for that style. He is Magic Johnson in Karl Malone's body with Jordan's explosiveness.

Athletes in prior eras were less equipped to deal with that problem, not more.

What you're failing to consider in your comparison is the individual's will. LBJ, unlike MJ & Kobe, doesn't have that ice in his veins. We already see him defer most times in clutch moments instead of using his athleticism asset to his advantage when it's arguably needed the most.
What I'm trying to say is even though his body is built for that contact his mind isn't. There's nothing you can say to make me believe different because he doesn't impose his will now in the era where it's a less physical game. It's only common sense IMO.

 

[tlance]

What you're failing to consider in your comparison is the individual's will. LBJ, unlike MJ & Kobe, doesn't have that ice in his veins. We already see him defer most times in clutch moments instead of using his athleticism asset to his advantage when it's arguably needed the most.
What I'm trying to say is even though his body is built for that contact his mind isn't. There's nothing you can say to make me believe different because he doesn't impose his will now in the era where it's a less physical game. It's only common sense IMO.

That is one place where I do agree with you. It is common sense.

No, he isn't MJ or Kobe in terms of willpower. But, you are making him out to some kind of shrinking violet. Passing the ball to open teammates instead of taking end of game shots has NOTHING to do with response to physical play. LeBron is a competitor and there is nothing about him that is soft. You don't get to his status if you are. Besides, we are talking about a man who was a high major football prospect before he hung up his cleats.

 

[trojanfan12]

What you're failing to consider in your comparison is the individual's will. LBJ, unlike MJ & Kobe, doesn't have that ice in his veins. We already see him defer most times in clutch moments instead of using his athleticism asset to his advantage when it's arguably needed the most.
What I'm trying to say is even though his body is built for that contact his mind isn't. There's nothing you can say to make me believe different because he doesn't impose his will now in the era where it's a less physical game. It's only common sense IMO.

That is one place where I do agree with you. It is common sense.

No, he isn't MJ or Kobe in terms of willpower. But, you are making him out to some kind of shrinking violet. Passing the ball to open teammates instead of taking end of game shots has NOTHING to do with response to physical play. LeBron is a competitor and there is nothing about him that is soft. You don't get to his status if you are. Besides, we are talking about a man who was a high major football prospect before he hung up his cleats.

I think you're both right and both wrong. Not even sure "both wrong" applies. Maybe just both right.

Lebron isn't the "killer" that MJ and Kobe were. I'm not sure that it was because he was "afraid of the moment" as some (myself included) have suggested at times. I think he was always so concerned with "making the right play/not looking like a ballhog" that he didn't take into consideration that sometimes, the best play is the best player on the court taking the shot, even if it means bypassing someone else being open.

We all seem to agree that Lebron plays more like Magic. That was something Magic inherently knew and Lebron had to learn.

He has since learned that lesson and, imo, has done a much better job stepping up late in games over last few seasons. MJ and Kobe did not take the big shot every single time either. They just did a better job of picking when to let someone else take it.

Physically, Lebron is definitely built for success in any era. He has the size and strength to be successful in the more physical late 80's and 90's and the athleticism to succeed in today's less physical game.

However, because of his mindset, which imo, shows in his flopping (he keeps doing it even though he's embarrassingly bad at it) and constant complaints to the refs, it would take him some time to adjust to a more physical game. But I think he would adjust and end up being close to, if not as dominant as he is today.

 

[tlance]

I think you're both right and both wrong. Not even sure "both wrong" applies. Maybe just both right.

Lebron isn't the "killer" that MJ and Kobe were. I'm not sure that it was because he was "afraid of the moment" as some (myself included) have suggested at times. I think he was always so concerned with "making the right play/not looking like a ballhog" that he didn't take into consideration that sometimes, the best play is the best player on the court taking the shot, even if it means bypassing someone else being open.

We all seem to agree that Lebron plays more like Magic. That was something Magic inherently knew and Lebron had to learn.

He has since learned that lesson and, imo, has done a much better job stepping up late in games over last few seasons. MJ and Kobe did not take the big shot every single time either. They just did a better job of picking when to let someone else take it.

Physically, Lebron is definitely built for success in any era. He has the size and strength to be successful in the more physical late 80's and 90's and the athleticism to succeed in today's less physical game.

However, because of his mindset, which imo, shows in his flopping (he keeps doing it even though he's embarrassingly bad at it) and constant complaints to the refs, it would take him some time to adjust to a more physical game. But I think he would adjust and end up being close to, if not as dominant as he is today.

I think you hit it on the head with the flopping thing. He is pretty terrible at it. And because he is such a large man, it looks ridiculous.

Make no mistake though, every good player embellishes contact to get calls. It is the bigger guys who get ridiculed for doing it because it looks weak. That does not mean they are soft players though. Quite the contrary in LeBron's case.

 

[CodeBreaker]

A bit top 3-ish. Absolute top 5.

The only thing he lacks is rings to get that top 2.

 

[LAD]

A bit top 3-ish. Absolute top 5.

The only thing he lacks is rings to get that top 2.

Some don't think ring count should be part of the equation.

 

[larryjohn]

Some don't think ring count should be part of the equation.

Elgin Baylor & Jerry West endorse this comment. (along with Sir Charles, Ewing, ...)

 

[CodeBreaker]

Some don't think ring count should be part of the equation.

But you can't just overlook Kareem's 6 rings to LeBron's 3 imo.
Let alone the longevity.

 

[tlance]

But you can't just overlook Kareem's 6 rings to LeBron's 3 imo.
Let alone the longevity.

Ring count is part of the equation for sure, but only part.

LeBron's longevity has been extremely impressive also. We don't know what he will look like or even if he will be in the league in his late 30s, but his run as the game's best player is rivaled by only Jordan.

 

[trojanfan12]

Ring count is part of the equation for sure, but only part.

LeBron's longevity has been extremely impressive also. We don't know what he will look like or even if he will be in the league in his late 30s, but his run as the game's best player is rivaled by only Jordan.

Agree 100%

As I said before, this is why I think Lebron leaving to the Lakers (or somewhere else) is a real possibility. Aside from the fact that he hates the owner...Rings (and thus, finals MVP's) is the tiebreaker that Lebron just can't match when compared to MJ.

So, to have a legit shot at GOAT status, he needs a tiebreaker that MJ can't match. Leading 3 different teams to a title, something no one has done in league history, would be the tiebreaker that MJ can't match. To do it leading a storied franchise back to championship form, would be icing on the cake.

 

[LAD]

But you can't just overlook Kareem's 6 rings to LeBron's 3 imo.
Let alone the longevity.

I agree

 

[LAD]

Agree 100%

As I said before, this is why I think Lebron leaving to the Lakers (or somewhere else) is a real possibility. Aside from the fact that he hates the owner...Rings (and thus, finals MVP's) is the tiebreaker that Lebron just can't match when compared to MJ.

So, to have a legit shot at GOAT status, he needs a tiebreaker that MJ can't match. Leading 3 different teams to a title, something no one has done in league history, would be the tiebreaker that MJ can't match. To do it leading a storied franchise back to championship form, would be icing on the cake.

Well I hope he doesn't go to the Lakers. I would just hate to see such a storied franchise - and a team I've liked for so long - be in that kind of choke hold.

 

[Black Adam]

Some don't think ring count should be part of the equation.

i'm not one of those...

why should LeClown be judged any different from anyone else...?

 

[tlance]

Some don't think ring count should be part of the equation.

Nobody thinks that.

But, many cite ring count as the only reason for ranking certain players over others. It is lazy and fails to properly contextualize circumstance outside the players' control. There is a lot that goes into a championship season. As great as MJ and LeBron are, they would have zero rings without their teammates.

Ring count is definitely an important part of the equation. But it isn't the end all be all some try to make it.

 

[LAD]

Nobody thinks that.

QUOTE]
Actually, I have had conversations with a couple who actually do think that way. But, I agree with your other points.

 

[trojanfan12]

Well I hope he doesn't go to the Lakers. I would just hate to see such a storied franchise - and a team I've liked for so long - be in that kind of choke hold.

I get it. For me, I just want the Lakers back to winning titles. He wouldn't be the first guy I didn't like that played for the Lakers and helped them win titles.

 

[CodeBreaker]

Ring count is part of the equation for sure, but only part.

LeBron's longevity has been extremely impressive also. We don't know what he will look like or even if he will be in the league in his late 30s, but his run as the game's best player is rivaled by only Jordan.

*important part

I still have Kareem ahead of LeBron because of that important part of the equation.

It's a very different story if LeBron won in 2011 and didn't have that choke job in the Finals. Could have gone 3peat or 4 rings by now. But the window has not closed yet imo, he still have a huge chance to be definite top 2 before his career ends.

 

[Hornsstampede2.0]

Lottery team
Lottery team + Lebron = Finals Appearances

Winning team
Winning team - Lebron = #1 Pick in the lottery

I am sick and tired of hearing about his lack of winning rings (despite having 3!!).
No player in history has ever affect a teams WIN/LOSS like Lebron James.

Other all time greats cannot measure up in this one key component of Lebron.
Jordan left the Bulls in 1993, and they were a foul call from the Finals.
Kareem left the Lakers in 1989, and they still went to the Finals.
The bucks had the exact same record they year after he left as his final year in Milwaukee.
Wilt left the 1968 team as 62 win team. The 69 group still had 57 wins.

The Lebron affect on WIN-LOSS has never been seen before in our history.