POLL Lebron James and his all time ranking

[msgkings322]

Now those opinions I would assume are based on things he has actually said and/or did (there are many instances that can be used as examples). So, I can understand your perspective.

LOL so bad opinions are facts based on actual words/actions but good opinions are unknowable bullshit? You're not arguing in good faith.

 

[Black Adam]

Like almost everything

Those adjectives for LeBron, don't they apply to a lot of players you don't hate?

meh, not all...

but it certainly is a component most average Joe's are repelled by...

 

[trojanfan12]

The Lakers were not a spread offense at all. Not even close.

They had a traditional post up 5, and while skilled, their 4s were not perimeter players. Heck, even Worthy would be a 4 in today's NBA.

Seriously?!? You realize there are more ways to the spread the floor than the way the Warriors do it, right?

The Lakers would spread the floor to set themselves up to attack the defense with the mid-range and in the middle with cuts, dives to the basket and of course, Kareem. It's wasn't the same as the way the Warriors do it because the 3 wasn't a big deal. But they absolutely did spread the floor.

 

[tlance]

Seriously?!? You realize there are more ways to the spread the floor than the way the Warriors do it, right?

The Lakers would spread the floor to set themselves up to attack the defense with the mid-range and in the middle with cuts, dives to the basket and of course, Kareem. It's wasn't the same as the way the Warriors do it because the 3 wasn't a big deal. But they absolutely did spread the floor.

That is the entire point though.

The were one of the greatest offensive teams of all time. So are the Warriors. The way the two teams play half court offense is not even remotely similar aside from the fact that they utilized great ball movement and spacing. It is apples to oranges.

When I am talking about a spread offense, I am talking about teams who space the floor with 4-5 3 point shooters to open driving and cutting lanes. The Lakers did not do that at all. Guarding out to 28 feet feet taxes the defense in ways that teams from that era simply couldn't (or at least didn't).

 

[trojanfan12]

The were one of the greatest offensive teams of all time. So are the Warriors. The way the two teams play half court offense is not even remotely similar aside from the fact that they utilized great ball movement and spacing. It is apples to oranges.

No it isn't apples to oranges. It's using a similar tactic to create space. Both spread the floor, both move the ball well. The Warriors used the 3 point shot to open up the middle, the Lakers used perimeter passing and precise cuts through the middle.

When I am talking about a spread offense, I am talking about teams who space the floor with 4-5 3 point shooters to open driving and cutting lanes. The Lakers did not do that at all. Guarding out to 28 feet feet taxes the defense in ways that teams from that era simply couldn't (or at least didn't).

Again, there is more than one way to spread the floor. And constant ball and player movement, running guys off screens and making them chase you all over the court is every bit as taxing on a defense as what the Warriors do.

That's why teams like the Pistons ratcheted up the physicality so much. They knew they couldn't win chasing teams like the Lakers.

 

[DorianRo]

Top 12-13 is fair for Lebron. I put him in around the same level with Kobe. Just a tad below. If he can win a 'ship and overcome GS this year I'll put him top 10-11 at the 10 or 11 spot

Top 5 all time? GFTO. 3-5 in NBA finals? and 7 of those on stacked teams. Thats not even CLOSE To being worthy of top 5

 

[tlance]

No it isn't apples to oranges. It's using a similar tactic to create space. Both spread the floor, both move the ball well. The Warriors used the 3 point shot to open up the middle, the Lakers used perimeter passing and precise cuts through the middle.



Again, there is more than one way to spread the floor. And constant ball and player movement, running guys off screens and making them chase you all over the court is every bit as taxing on a defense as what the Warriors do.

That's why teams like the Pistons ratcheted up the physicality so much. They knew they couldn't win chasing teams like the Lakers.

No.

There are many ways to space the floor. That is not what I am talking about at all. I am talking about a pace and space offense that relies on the 3 point line. Totally and completely different.

The Pistons physicality would not have anywhere near the same impact on team like GS because their defenders would not have been able to clog the paint like they did against 80s teams.

Frankly, I am shocked you can't see the difference that defending significantly more real estate would have on a team that tires to thug it up in the paint.

 

[DorianRo]

Lets not forget, Lebron is a Ray Allen Miracle shot, a Popovich brainfart and Bogut injury away from being an all time PATHETIC 1-7 in NBA finals.

And even deep down the most hardened LeTot knows its true.


If Lebron was a legit top 5-7 all time player he would at the very LEAST have a winning record in NBA finals wouldn't he being that hes been on SEVEN stacked teams in 8 finals appearances.

I don't expect the LeTitties to admit this though. Since they live on LeFantasyIsland.


You think MJ, Bird, Magic, Russell, Shaq, Duncan, Hakeem, Kareem etc. Playing on a. stacked team every year in a shit ass EC is gonna have a LOSING Finals records???

 

[tlance]

Lets not forget, Lebron is a Ray Allen Miracle shot, a Popovich brainfart and Bogut injury away from being an all time PATHETIC 1-7 in NBA finals.

And even deep down the most hardened LeTot knows its true.


If Lebron was a legit top 5-7 all time player he would at the very LEAST have a winning record in NBA finals wouldn't he being that hes been on SEVEN stacked teams in 8 finals appearances.

I don't expect the LeTitties to admit this though. Since they live on LeFantasyIsland

LOL.

Yet, you want LeBron to carry your boy to a title. Good luck with that.

 

[DorianRo]

LOL.

Yet, you want LeBron to carry your boy to a title. Good luck with that.

Rose/Lebron/Wade/Love and solid role players should be enough.. No guarantee Warriors get to the finals anyways. I think the Spurs are in the finals or Thunder. The West is gonna be super competitive this year. East will be a little more competitive but still ass overall

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Rose/Lebron/Wade/Love and solid role players should be enough.. No guarantee Warriors get to the finals anyways. I think the Spurs are in the finals or Thunder. The West is gonna be super competitive this year. East will be a little more competitive but still ass overall

You make it sound as if Love, Wade and Rose are still good players

 

[msgkings322]

Rose/Lebron/Wade/Love and solid role players should be enough.. No guarantee Warriors get to the finals anyways. I think the Spurs are in the finals or Thunder. The West is gonna be super competitive this year. East will be a little more competitive but still ass overall

Again, your bullshit trolling collapses here. The only true superstar talent you mention is LeBron, and according to you he sucks anyway. He's especially terrible in the Finals, with a 3-5 record and 2 of those wins pure luck.

How does that loser, plus no D Love, plus old ass Wade and broken ass Rose beat the Warriors (or Thunder or Spurs or heck even Houston)? Please try to explain, I need some entertainment. I know you are trolling but it can be fun to mess with dumb trolls.

 

[trojanfan12]

No.

There are many ways to space the floor. That is not what I am talking about at all. I am talking about a pace and space offense that relies on the 3 point line. Totally and completely different.

The Pistons physicality would not have anywhere near the same impact on team like GS because their defenders would not have been able to clog the paint like they did against 80s teams.

Frankly, I am shocked you can't see the difference that defending significantly more real estate would have on a team that tires to thug it up in the paint.

I'm shocked that you can't see that there are many ways to space the floor and that the Warriors aren't the be all, end all.

You think they are so awesome that no team in history could possibly defend them. I say they don't have the size to handle the physical pounding that teams in the late 80's and 90's would have put on them.

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[tlance]

I'm shocked that you can't see that there are many ways to space the floor and that the Warriors aren't the be all, end all.

You think they are so awesome that no team in history could possibly defend them. I say they don't have the size to handle the physical pounding that teams in the late 80's and 90's would have put on them.

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

I agree that we will have to disagree.

But, teams like the Bulls might have had a shot with as many elite perimeter defenders as they had. Size and strength ain't getting it done. Not defensively anyway.

 

[larryjohn]

Seriously?!? You realize there are more ways to the spread the floor than the way the Warriors do it, right?

The Lakers would spread the floor to set themselves up to attack the defense with the mid-range and in the middle with cuts, dives to the basket and of course, Kareem. It's wasn't the same as the way the Warriors do it because the 3 wasn't a big deal. But they absolutely did spread the floor.

From your description, then the triangle is a spread offense.

 

[trojanfan12]

From your description, then the triangle is a spread offense.

It can be. Definitely. Just a different way of spreading the floor. Most offenses have some aspect to spread the floor. Really, the only thing that's "unique" about the Warriors is they work spread the floor to attack from the perimeter rather than spreading the floor to attack the middle.

Even then, they still attack the middle, they just work to establish the perimeter first.

 

[LAD]

LOL so bad opinions are facts based on actual words/actions but good opinions are unknowable bullshit? You're not arguing in good faith.

Well even if they are that's not what I said. Not even close. What I said was I can understand one's opinion of him if they're based on the things that LBJ has ACTUALLY said.

 

[LAD]

The Pistons physicality would not have anywhere near the same impact on team like GS because their defenders would not have been able to clog the paint like they did against 80s teams.

Disagree. I think many are so enamored with their jump shooting abilities that they forget how much they play in the paint too. In 2016 we saw a Finals series where LBJ & his Cavs were way more physical with GS & as a result it took them out of their rhythm -and they lost.

If Steph isn't free to run around screens like he does so well that really changes his game because then he's forced to live off of pull up jumpers. Don't get me wrong - he's a great shooter - but there are many other facets to his game that makes him so dangerous for defenders.

 

[tlance]

Disagree. I think many are so enamored with their jump shooting abilities that they forget how much they play in the paint too. In 2016 we saw a Finals series where LBJ & his Cavs were way more physical with GS & as a result it took them out of their rhythm -and they lost.

If Steph isn't free to run around screens like he does so well that really changes his game because then he's forced to live off of pull up jumpers. Don't get me wrong - he's a great shooter - but there are many other facets to his game that makes him so dangerous for defenders.

They do a lot in the paint.

The reason those opportunities are so open is because the defense is stretched so far guarding shooters and they have limited opportunity to help because of those shooters.

What you guys are failing to grasp is that the driving lanes would still be there unless the Pistons abondoned the shooters. The Warriors make them pay either way. Yes, they would take a few cheap shots along the way, but I will say it again. The 80s and 90s teams never had to defend an offense like this one.

 

[tlance]

Disagree. I think many are so enamored with their jump shooting abilities that they forget how much they play in the paint too. In 2016 we saw a Finals series where LBJ & his Cavs were way more physical with GS & as a result it took them out of their rhythm -and they lost.

If Steph isn't free to run around screens like he does so well that really changes his game because then he's forced to live off of pull up jumpers. Don't get me wrong - he's a great shooter - but there are many other facets to his game that makes him so dangerous for defenders.

They were able to take Steph away because he was playing injured and at maybe 75%.