Just reg'lr trivia?

[JohnU]

I did see a 3P last year where the ball was hit so hard to the first baseman, who was holding the runner that the guy on base was out before he could breathe. The throw back to third base got the guy leading off. He didn't really have a chance.

 

[Redsfan1507]

You can crush outs and a bleeder falls in sometimes. There is little justice in this life. That fact may be a benefactor or religion...most people gotta die to get justice.

 

[Redsfan1507]

Hey, if a guy hit a liner (1) got another guy picked off(2) and another baserunners standing safely on he bag gets hit trying to deflect the throw for out 3, would that be considered a triple play ?

 

[Hit-n-Run]

My understanding of the rule, any runner deemed to have interfered intentionally with a thrown ball in the judgment of the umpire is out regardless of whether he's on the bag or not.

I believe it's a triple play

 

[JohnU]

Well you can be called out for getting hit by the batted ball. At the same time another runner could be called out for interference. I suppose there are any series of weird possibilities so you could get a bunch of outs without anybody ever fielding the damned thing when you add in the infield fly rule and the 45-foot lane.

 

[JohnU]

Here's a trip down memory lane.
The entire 1961 Reds yearbook, complete with the most annoying overlay of TMOTTBG ever!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMKBcsB9jUQ]The Complete 1961 Cincinnati Reds Yearbook - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Redsfan1507]

Who would you vote for to be the LF if you were picking the modern day ALL-BEST 8 REDS position players ? They have to have actually played there full time at some point with the Reds...

I assume most would say Bench(C), Votto or Perez (1b), Morgan ( he was NL MVP twice for all you BP voters) at 2b, Larkin as SS, Rose at 3b, maybe Eric Davis or Vada Pinson in CF, and Frank Robinson in RF... But Reds LF ? George Foster ? I'm stumped. Guess there haven't been that many great ones, or I'm missing someone.

 

[JohnU]

As far as "left" fielders go, in those days at Crosley, it was hard to tell.

Frank Robinson came up as a left fielder and wasn't considered a great fielder.
Wally Post had a cannon for an arm in right field and Gus Bell was excellent in center. Post was a right-handed version of Jay Bruce. Struck out a lot, and hit some balls that are still in orbit.

When Pinson arrived, Bell moved to left and platooned with Post in '61. They also had Jerry Lynch, so the multi-platoon wasn't new to the Reds.

Gus Bell was insulted when the Reds let him go in the '62 draft to the Mets. Can't say I blamed him, but a lot of guys got the same shaft, which was one reason the Mets sucked so bad. Most of those guys were bitter.

I'd go with Eric Davis for sure as the all-time team. Pinson? Maybe because he played during an era that I find warm, owing to my youth. Vada was very fast in an era when fast wasn't considered a value. Frank Robinson would be in that outfield. I don't think I'd pick Foster over any of those guys. Geronimo was the best defensive CF I ever saw and he had a gun for an arm.

All-time 1B ... you need to go back to Frank McCormick (1939-40) to maybe challenge Votto as a hitter. Big Klu and Perez ... tough call.

2B, I suppose Morgan but I can't say he was a better fielder than Johnny Temple. Temple could hit and he was a great guy in Cincy. Reds infield defense in the late 50s was record-setting. They were that good.

SS, Larkin would seem to be automatic. Cardenas was a smooth glove. Davey C was amazing. All facets, it's gotta be Larkin.

3B ... I suppose it's Pete, if you nail him down to any position. Reds used a lot of guys at 3B over the years.

What amazes me about Bench is that he wasn't unanimous for the Hall of Fame. Tells you a little about that bunch of pompous asshats. Would have loved to see Lombardi hit. They claim he used to hit rockets off the scoreboard, and he was just too slow to benefit from it.

Ed Bailey was a very good catcher. Not many people remember that.

 

[chico ruiz]

push come to shove 1507; i put perez at third, and rose in left. can't leave a rbi machine like perez out of that all-time-star reds line-up.

 

[JohnU]

If you want the best all-time Reds, irrespective of defensive position, you have a different sets of values to include.

 

[Redsfan1507]

I though about Perez at 3b- played there until Lee May went to Houston. What a team, huh?

 

[JohnU]

Perez was an early version of Nick Esasky at third base. I think the Reds *could* have won with Doggie at 3B, with that offense.

 

[Redsfan1507]

Reds have had some great position players over the years at most other spots, but LF has been kinda thin there.

Starting pitchers ? All Time Best...Blackwell ? Merritt ? Gullett ? Rijo ? Seaver ? Soto ? Billingham ? Vandermeer ? Not so many obvious choices there.

 

[JohnU]

I tend to separate baseball eras into several categories -- Before Ruth, Ruth through the WWII, WWII up to expansion, expansion into the free agency era ... and maybe everything since then is connected to that, PEDs, new philosophies, season openers in Tokyo and Melbourne.

That established, the best Reds pitchers I ever saw were
Gullett, Nolan, Browning, Purkey, Maloney and lately, Cueto.
Soto is close, Rijo is close ... Seaver would be if he'd been a Red instead of a traded Met.
If I wanted to build a franchise, I'd start with Maloney, Purkey, Browning and Gullett.


Those guys from bygone eras, Derringer, Vandy, Walters ... who knows?

 

[bengaldoug]

For about six years from 63 through 68 Maloney was awesome. It's a shame his career was over at only 29. He pitched the first game I ever saw at Crosley Field in 1963 (age 7). He threw a three hit shutout, struck out 12, and hit a three run homer. From that moment on he became my hero.

 

[Redsfan1507]

I think that separation of pitchers( and hitters) by the era they played is valid. PEDs will forever muddy that water. The Reds also had several pitchers that flamed out early due to injuries that would have still had effective years with today's medical technology, but IMO, we'll have to see how effective those "miracle" surgeries fare going forward, without using the healing properties of PEDs as part of the "miracle". Ryan Madson has already whined for medical exception, saying he should be allowed to use PEDs to expedite his recovery. It's become part of the process, IMO.

The 60's were a pitching dominant decade due to several factors compared with later-they still had lots of big parks, the mound was higher, and there were fewer teams-making the "cut" to 10 man pitching staffs with less than 24 teams, made ALL the pitchers better by eliminating about 120 lesser pitchers from even being IN MLB.... and of course, the pre-PED hitters were 30 lbs. less steroidal muscle mass, too, and there were no DH's. Yaztrzemski won a triple crown with a BA barely over .300. 50 HR seasons were crowning achievements, not routine occurances.

In not convinced we will ever truly see a PED-less MLB again, but even the reduction in them will see a return to the days of fewer "miracle" injury recoveries, fewer 35 plus age great seasons and high impact position players ( middle infielders and catchers) declining at earlier ages. The parks are getting smaller all the time, and the DH and 12 man pitching staffs on 30 team MLB all favor hitters, but pitching is going to become more relevant as the juicers decline (literally and figuratively).

Mario Soto was awesome on a terrible Reds team. Maloney, Gullett, Nolan, Wayne Simpson, and a lot of others might have been more Clemens-esc if they had his "conditioning". For 5 years, Jose Rijo was dominant. Jack Billingham would probably be a .500 pitcher with Dusty's lineup behind him. Fred Norman, Tom Browning ,Danny Jackson etc. are examples of what a lefty SP with a little offense can do for a team.

I think Johnny Cueto has the tools to blow them all away...and Aroldis Chapman would be better than Cueto over a healthy SP career, but won't ever be given the chance with the Reds. They're taking the next Randy Johnson, and making him into the next Billy Wagner. What a waste.

 

[BigDDude]

Reds have had some great position players over the years at most other spots, but LF has been kinda thin there.

Starting pitchers ? All Time Best...Blackwell ? Merritt ? Gullett ? Rijo ? Seaver ? Soto ? Billingham ? Vandermeer ? Not so many obvious choices there.

For what it is worth, I think you have to name Foster your all time L.F. Like many have said, there are not a lot of big name choices, with him being the best of the bunch ( post Ruth era ).

 

[JohnU]

If you pick the top "outfielders," Foster might not make the list.
If you confine him to left field, he's a fit. Just three outfielders -- Robinson, Pinson, Eric Davis make my list. For bizarre numbers, Adam Dunn is part of the conversation.

 

[Redsfan1507]

I think Dunn is or is close to the all time Reds Lefty hitter HR record. More than Klu. I think Votto and Bruce have a shot at bettering it, if they play their entire careers in Red. Foster only had about 3 killer years, and was a minus OF. I think I'd list Rose, Davis and Robinson, call Tony Perez the 3b, and already concede Votto as the best all time at 1b.

I think Concepcion was the best SS of his era, but don't think he stands up to Larkin in any single category. Phillips is a fine 2b, but Little Joe Morgan was a 2 time back to back NL MVP and perennial stolen base and gold glove contender.

I've never seen anyone that had it on both sides if the game behind the plate like Johhny Bench.

 

[BigDDude]

If you pick the top "outfielders," Foster might not make the list.
If you confine him to left field, he's a fit. Just three outfielders -- Robinson, Pinson, Eric Davis make my list. For bizarre numbers, Adam Dunn is part of the conversation.

I wonder if the decendants of the Reds owner who moved Robinson for being "an old 30" are still dealing with the fallout of this?

An EPIC FAIL trade if there ever was one.