Is Nick Saban a coward ?

[Chewbaccer]

Bill Simmons makes my skin crawl. He's an embarrassment to sports journalism, and his opinion matters not.

 

[DeafOranguntan]

gpm, Saban only went to the NFL once, unless you mean assistant coaching, which doesn't count in this really. I've never heard of Bill Simmons. However, he's way off base on Saban being a coward. It's true Saban was a pretty bad NFL coach. He just didn't have the skillset needed to succeed at that level. But since he's the best recruiter ever, he went back to college where he could shine. That's not cowardice, that's going where your talents dictate you'll succeed.

I would agree that the NFL has better coaches though. I am very impressed in coaches who can succeed at both levels since they require different skillsets, like Jimmy Johnson and Pete Carrol. Because of the draft, you can't just stockpile the best talent until no one can touch you the way Saban does in college. There, it comes much more down to your ability as a game manager and your ability to spot potential in diamonds in the rough. I think Vince Lombardi and Tom Landry were fantastic (and Lombardi has the best quotes of anyone). However, the NFL had not reached the level of parity and competitiveness it has today. The college team used to occasionally beat the super bowl champs, which would never happen today. So I do think Bill Belichick might be the best ever. He's brilliant at finding untapped potential, which is why he always traded his first round picks for several lower round. Because of him, the Pats have been dominant for almost 20 years.

 

[fishinabarrel]

Yeah! You tell him Bill! Whoever you are

 

[fishinabarrel]

gpm, Saban only went to the NFL once, unless you mean assistant coaching, which doesn't count in this really. I've never heard of Bill Simmons. However, he's way off base on Saban being a coward. It's true Saban was a pretty bad NFL coach. He just didn't have the skillset needed to succeed at that level. But since he's the best recruiter ever, he went back to college where he could shine. That's not cowardice, that's going where your talents dictate you'll succeed.

I would agree that the NFL has better coaches though. I am very impressed in coaches who can succeed at both levels since they require different skillsets, like Jimmy Johnson and Pete Carrol. Because of the draft, you can't just stockpile the best talent until no one can touch you the way Saban does in college. There, it comes much more down to your ability as a game manager and your ability to spot potential in diamonds in the rough. I think Vince Lombardi and Tom Landry were fantastic (and Lombardi has the best quotes of anyone). However, the NFL had not reached the level of parity and competitiveness it has today. The college all star team used to occasionally beat the super bowl champs, which would never happen today. So I do think Bill Belichick might be the best ever. He's brilliant at finding untapped potential, which is why he always traded his first round picks for several lower round. Because of him, the Pats have been dominant for almost 20 years.

I'm not sure we can completely dismiss Saban "not having the skillset" to succeed in the NFL. Pete Carroll didn't fare too well his first go. Had Carroll stayed in college we might still be saying he is just a "college coach" hindsight tells a much different story, however. If Saban were to be given control over a team the way Pete has in Seahawks, I think he could be successful.

 

[DeafOranguntan]

I'm not sure we can completely dismiss Saban "not having the skillset" to succeed in the NFL. Pete Carroll didn't fare too well his first go. Had Carroll stayed in college we might still be saying he is just a "college coach" hindsight tells a much different story, however. If Saban were to be given control over a team the way Pete has in Seahawks, I think he could be successful.

I don't know. You make a good point about Pete's first foray into the big leagues. But if you look, Saban has some problems that do not mesh well with the NFL. One is his hiring of vanilla or worse offensive coordinators. You are heavily dependent on your assistants in the NFL and he hasn't shown he finds the best guys in that regard. He also strikes me as a bit of a control freak. That is perfectly fine when it's kids (my high school coach whom I heavily respect would be arrested in quite a few states for the things he did to us). However, you can't really do that with men in the NFL. That's why the best NFL coaches (like Lombardi and Landry) are always cool on the field. You need more of a Mark Richt personality than a Saban, Dabo, or Meyer one. In addition, in college, Saban has not had to make do with players who aren't incredibly talented. His team consists of 5 star players 3 deep. He might be able to switch over were he younger, but he's too old to build the experience base to develop the eye and find that untapped potential. Chris Peterson could be interesting in the NFL.

Basically though, I think we can dismiss his ability as an NFL coach right now. A skillset to succeed in any profession at the highest level takes talent and experience. Even if he has the talent to succeed in the NFL, he has never had to develop the skills required there, and so he wouldn't have the second part.

 

[Deep Creek]

But since he's the best recruiter ever, he went back to college where he could shine.

This. If you are at a place where it is easier to recruit, and you are a top recruiter and can stockpile talent, why would you want to go to a system where you have an predetermined order you have to follow when selecting players? Doesn't make sense to give up a situation where you can conceivably select your 25 first choices for one where you get to select one every 30th or so time....and most of your top choices won't be available by the time you select.

 

[Deep Creek]

If Saban were to be given control over a team the way Pete has in Seahawks, I think he could be successful.

He might be. But, he wouldn't get to make the first 30 selections every draft even if given that control by the owner. The draft doesn't work that way. It is open warfare in college recruiting. You have to stay in your place in the pro draft unless you are willing to give something up in order to move up.

On second thought, I guess it would be possible to get the first 30 draft selections if you traded everything away to obtain every single first round selection. That's a little asanine but still possible I guess.

 

[AfrikaBlack]

I love how the pro NFL media tries to bait high profile college coaches to come to the NFL. If the NFL has the best coaches why not just keep hiring within?

 

[B_dub]

Saw this on Twitter yesterday, still wondering who the fuck Bill Simmons is.

Pretty sure it's Richard Simmons husband.

 

[Justin Tyme]

Was that the polite golf clap from a few seasons ago?

 

[Justin Tyme]

What am I missing?

Ego?

 

[DeafOranguntan]

I love how the pro NFL media tries to bait high profile college coaches to come to the NFL. If the NFL has the best coaches why not just keep hiring within?

That argument is inherently flawed. An analogous situation would be saying "if the NFL has the best players, why not just hire free agents instead of drafting." We know the players in the NFL are overall better than college players. However, the fact that generally the coaches or players are better than their college counterparts doesn't mean there isn't an up and coming talent they can add to their ranks.

 

[OregonDucks]

Oh look Simmons needed some clicks.

 

[Wild Turkey]

Bill Simmons is a 100% correct.

 

[fishinabarrel]

He might be. But, he wouldn't get to make the first 30 selections every draft even if given that control by the owner. The draft doesn't work that way. It is open warfare in college recruiting. You have to stay in your place in the pro draft unless you are willing to give something up in order to move up.

On second thought, I guess it would be possible to get the first 30 draft selections if you traded everything away to obtain every single first round selection. That's a little asanine but still possible I guess.

I'm not of the opinion Saban can only win with superior talent. Right now he is dominating on a historical level with superior talent in college.

 

[4down20]

He might be. But, he wouldn't get to make the first 30 selections every draft even if given that control by the owner. The draft doesn't work that way. It is open warfare in college recruiting. You have to stay in your place in the pro draft unless you are willing to give something up in order to move up.

On second thought, I guess it would be possible to get the first 30 draft selections if you traded everything away to obtain every single first round selection. That's a little asanine but still possible I guess.

I think the bigger problem he would have with it is he doesn't actually have the authority to draft who he wants. That's all on the GM really, with coaches having only "requests" etc.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Ha, knew the first second I saw Bill Simmons' name it'd be really about the Patriots since it was a football take. Can't win by yourself as a HC in the NFL. People tend to forget Hoody's tenure in Cleveland.

 

[Deep Creek]

I'm not of the opinion Saban can only win with superior talent. Right now he is dominating on a historical level with superior talent in college.

Agree. He won some at Michigan State with lesser talent than he has at Bama (or had at LSU). He also didn't win at Sparty to the degree of the other two. His early wins at Bama weren't with far superior talent like it has been lately. When he has talent like he's had lately, he definitely dominates not just wins.

 

[theboardref]

This is Bill's wife ...

View attachment 153432

 

[Goldbug]

I have always considered Nick Saban's and Barry Switzer's careers as being roughly even.

Nick Saban: 5 National Championships
Barry Switzer: 3 National Championships + 1 Super Bowl Championship

Are either of them cowards? Not hardly.