How Pleased Are You That the Pats Are Out of the Big Game?

[dkmightyhammer]

The difference was that Butler was playing for the ball, not the receiver. Which the video clearly shows.

How many times a game do we hear announcers say that PI is called much less often if the defender just turns his head around to play the ball even when there's mucho contact between the players? And they're right. All the gdam time.

Ya, I have no problem with the call. I think it was the right call and nearly impossible to see exactly what happened at full speed. I can also see the argument the other way too. I think if you are going by the most absolute, strictest definition for PI you could argue that Butler got rubbed out Lockett just before the ball got there. It's one of those calls that would have stuck either way in my opinion, but I personally think they got it right.

 

[cdumler7]

My comment still stands WRT the cap hit. Eventually it becomes due. All you're doing is delaying it.
You say $10 mil like you're sure then go onto say 10-11. Remember other teams haven't started to raise the price yet. Denver needs to lock him up before he hits Free Agency. There are too many teams looking for a potential QB.
IMHO key players are those who contribute, are team guys, know the system and understand their role. Not just those filling the stat sheet. That is not easily replaced. So let all these "key" players walk and see where you are next year.
I've already discussed Vernon Davis. To me he's the best #2 TE in the league. Not sure why Denver hasn't been able to use him to his potential. It's like Graham in Seattle. Davis routinely avereages between 15-20 dropped passes a year. That's why he's a # 2. In the right sytem ie. NE I think he becomes a threat.
Seattle is starting to feel those cap hits. Those of us out here in the NW realized it would take 4-5 years. The Hawks like Denver hit on a lot of picks = rookie contract inexpensive, also some nice pick ups in FA. Last year in particular they started to feel tge effects as they had to pay guys like RW, KJ...They lost some "key" players. This year they have more big decisions on who they want tryand retain. Guys like Irvin and Okung are going to cost. Irvin saying he'll take a home town discount but we'll see as soon as FA opens and the calls start coming in. If the offers are close, I could see him stay but otherwise I predict he leaves. These players got their rings. They've watched theit teammates get paid now they want their $. If Denver wins on Sunday you'll see a lot of the same I'd bet. Rings, no Manning...all play into players decisions. We'll just have to see?

What I am saying is the best teams in the league figure out how to make sure the big cap hits of their star players don't happen in the same year. It is why you can manipulate the cap. So let's say this year Osweiler signs that 3-year/$30 million contract like I had said but his cap hit is only $5 million this year. So then the final 2 years you are looking at $12.5 million as a cap hit. Not a huge increase but saves you $5 million this year to help sign Von Miller to the huge contract he will have. So then if Osweiler say is $5 million cap hit this year and Von is $15 million cap hit then you have just used Peyton Manning's money to sign 2 key players to the success of this team. That leaves you still plenty to sign other guys.

Osweiler contract...I don't just come up with the $10 million money out of nowhere. First it is the number that is being rumored to be where both sides are thinking it will end up. Second this is looking at QB's in similar situations and what they were able to get. It is not as much as you would think. Teams are leery about signing a FA QB as it hasn't ended well for many teams. If the host team isn't willing to spend big on the player then it causes other teams to struggle to want to sign them.

You can keep saying that Vernon Davis is the best #2 TE in the league but that doesn't make it true. There is a reason that San Fran let him go and a reason he is only playing 1 snap a game in the playoffs. If he was such a difference maker then you would think the Broncos would be doing everything possible to get him on the field. Throw in the Broncos already used a draft pick last year on the TE position that has been on IR all year. They have very high hopes for the kid. If he can play 2 snaps a game then the Broncos are already getting better production from a much cheaper option. Why spend on Vernon Davis when they are winning without him?

Also you are acting like the Broncos don't have draft picks this year or draft picks from the last 2 years that won't contribute to the success of this team. Look at the 2012 draft for the Broncos...Many called it Elway's worst draft until this year. That year they drafted Wolfe (hadn't done much until this year), Osweiler (hadn't seen the field until this year), Hillman (was looking like a guy that would be cut in OTA's), Omar Bolden (had barely seen the field), Malik Jackson (was a back up until this year), and Trevathan (until this season was considered the best pick of the draft). Trevathan and Malik were the only 2 before this season that had done anything positive on this team. So you don't think the Broncos could see production from some of their other draft picks? I mean the Broncos for sure have their entire secondary that did so well this year locked up. They have Ware, Wolfe, Williams, Marshall of the front-7 locked up. So that leaves Jackson, Miller, and Trevathan. Like we said good chance they sign 2 of those guys. So good chance the #1 defense from this year returns 10 of the 11 starters. I would say good chance they continue to find success beyond this year.

 

[Breed]

No need to gild the lilly Breed. Great play by Butler. But no way no how OPI.

I put too much on it?

 

[clemtheslowson]

You deserve them. I give praise when it's deserved.

You deserve worse than a BS rating for your complete nonsense.

Get schooled. Admit it and move on. You've been owned. But tell me how those guys are in front of the fence. I'm still waiting for that one.

Why does this posting style remind me of Thumper?

 

[PatsFan2003]

Why does this posting style remind me of Thumper?

An ex-KFFL refugee.. He think Jeff Fischer is one of the bestest coaches of all time.

 

[Rex Racer]

Why does this posting style remind me of Thumper?

Reminds me of this guy.

 

[chf]

I put too much on it?

It was a bit of a reach, sadly like that latest iteration of Luther.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Is it safe to say the Seahawks final offensive play call should not have been a slight pass? I don't care about NE but that INT Butler made was an excellent read and play. It was a bang bang play and both players have a right to ball. If RW put the ball on the numbers, probably at worst it falls incomplete.

 

[GNG]

Denver was just a better team than New England this season as evidenced by their two wins over the Pats.

 

[GNG]

Is it safe to say the Seahawks final offensive play call should not have been a slight pass? I don't care about NE but that INT Butler made was an excellent read and play. It was a bang bang play and both players have a right to ball. If RW put the ball on the numbers, probably at worst it falls incomplete.

Wilson is a solid QB but even good QB's aren't flawless.

 

[GNG]

Pick a play when the defender hits the defender from behind before the ball gets there.

You still complaining? Sounds like sour grapes.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Wilson is a solid QB but even good QB's aren't flawless.

Indeed! That pass was a bit high and kind of out of reach.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Ronnie Hillman was 25th in the NFL in yards per game, and 14th in total yards. He averaged 4.2 yards per carry. He's just a guy. There's nothing special about him.

You also had CJ taking snaps away from him. Send him NEs way then if he's no threat. Good luck on finding a RB that is 14th in total yards after sharing time. Not saying it can't be done but I saw what happened this year to teams that lost thier RBs. So do you live in dream high or mile high?

 

[NWPATSFAN]

What I am saying is the best teams in the league figure out how to make sure the big cap hits of their star players don't happen in the same year. It is why you can manipulate the cap. So let's say this year Osweiler signs that 3-year/$30 million contract like I had said but his cap hit is only $5 million this year. So then the final 2 years you are looking at $12.5 million as a cap hit. Not a huge increase but saves you $5 million this year to help sign Von Miller to the huge contract he will have. So then if Osweiler say is $5 million cap hit this year and Von is $15 million cap hit then you have just used Peyton Manning's money to sign 2 key players to the success of this team. That leaves you still plenty to sign other guys.

Osweiler contract...I don't just come up with the $10 million money out of nowhere. First it is the number that is being rumored to be where both sides are thinking it will end up. Second this is looking at QB's in similar situations and what they were able to get. It is not as much as you would think. Teams are leery about signing a FA QB as it hasn't ended well for many teams. If the host team isn't willing to spend big on the player then it causes other teams to struggle to want to sign them.

You can keep saying that Vernon Davis is the best #2 TE in the league but that doesn't make it true. There is a reason that San Fran let him go and a reason he is only playing 1 snap a game in the playoffs. If he was such a difference maker then you would think the Broncos would be doing everything possible to get him on the field. Throw in the Broncos already used a draft pick last year on the TE position that has been on IR all year. They have very high hopes for the kid. If he can play 2 snaps a game then the Broncos are already getting better production from a much cheaper option. Why spend on Vernon Davis when they are winning without him?

Also you are acting like the Broncos don't have draft picks this year or draft picks from the last 2 years that won't contribute to the success of this team. Look at the 2012 draft for the Broncos...Many called it Elway's worst draft until this year. That year they drafted Wolfe (hadn't done much until this year), Osweiler (hadn't seen the field until this year), Hillman (was looking like a guy that would be cut in OTA's), Omar Bolden (had barely seen the field), Malik Jackson (was a back up until this year), and Trevathan (until this season was considered the best pick of the draft). Trevathan and Malik were the only 2 before this season that had done anything positive on this team. So you don't think the Broncos could see production from some of their other draft picks? I mean the Broncos for sure have their entire secondary that did so well this year locked up. They have Ware, Wolfe, Williams, Marshall of the front-7 locked up. So that leaves Jackson, Miller, and Trevathan. Like we said good chance they sign 2 of those guys. So good chance the #1 defense from this year returns 10 of the 11 starters. I would say good chance they continue to find success beyond this year.

We can go back and forth on this. I'll just say Oz can bend Denver over the Barrell as soon as Peyton says he's retiring. Denver has no back-up so they'll have to replace two QBs if Oz signs elsewhere. Of the potential FA QBs Oz has the most upside. One could argue Cousins. But I think the bidding war could get a little uglier thay you anticipate.

 

[cdumler7]

We can go back and forth on this. I'll just say Oz can bend Denver over the Barrell as soon as Peyton says he's retiring. Denver has no back-up so they'll have to replace two QBs if Oz signs elsewhere. Of the potential FA QBs Oz has the most upside. One could argue Cousins. But I think the bidding war could get a little uglier thay you anticipate.

Yup just have to see who is right in the next couple of months. I have read quite a bit on this so feel like good chance I have a clue what I am talking about but I have been wrong plenty. I will say though your posts have acted like many of the players you have listed are completely unreplaceable. While yes you could be right that some of these guys we won't find an equal or better player. I think it is possible though that they can find an upgrade at some of them. You seem to love Ronnie Hillman. Honestly if you go to the Bronco board there are not many of us that like him. He has done decent this year but he is a boom or bust guy. Either he finds a big hole and picks up big yards or he just keeps running sideways because he believes too much in his speed and just doesn't have the vision to always see the cut back lane. He has put our offense in terrible position with -4 yard runs on quite a few occasions when instead of at least trying to get back to the LOS he just ran backward hoping to get the edge. It has angered us greatly as fans. Also with the running game I guess this is more a In Kubiak we trust kind of thing. He has made a career out of taking no name RB's and turning them into thousand yard rushers. For the Kubiak system it is more about the OL than it is about the RB. Thankfully for the Broncos they get their starting OT's back from IR that are both very good ZBS Tackles.

See to me the Broncos are a team that drafts for 1-2 years down the road. Rookies are usually more depth that work to become starters than asked to be instant starters.

Vernon Davis--Broncos drafted Jeff Heuerman who is said to have been one of the favorite picks of the coaches this past year
Clady--Sambrailo They are hoping for Sambrailo to develop into a great starting LT
Ware--Shane Ray He has played spot duty and looked good

Those were our first 3 picks this past year who were not being asked to start at the positions we drafted them for but to become a starter. In the past this has worked out well

Ramirez--Paradis This has been a very nice upgrade at the Center position
Woodyard--Trevathan Again another nice upgrade
Potroast--Sly Williams Probably about even
Irving--Marshall Huge upgrade
Vickerson--Malik Jackson again huge upgrade

Now it hasn't always worked out like with Montee Ball and a few others but the Broncos have shown more times than not that they can find guys who in year 2 or 3 can take over for a starter and be that cheap option that produces way above the salary cap hit. It is why they can afford having Ware, DT, Manning, Talib, Ward, Harris, and others at high salaries and still put together a very deep and productive roster.

 

[Dude]

What a disgrace, let it go, there is Major Game coming up, the f-fing SB.
Fuck the Pats and merge this thread into one about sexual preferences.
Wink wink.

 

[Dude]

A song you all deserve:

 

[PatsFan2003]

Is it safe to say the Seahawks final offensive play call should not have been a slight pass? I don't care about NE but that INT Butler made was an excellent read and play. It was a bang bang play and both players have a right to ball. If RW put the ball on the numbers, probably at worst it falls incomplete.

And it still took a great a play by Butler to make the INT. With a slightly slower reaction the play could have ended up with a walk-in for the winning TD by Lockette.

A game of inches indeed.

 

[Broncos6482]

You also had CJ taking snaps away from him. Send him NEs way then if he's no threat. Good luck on finding a RB that is 14th in total yards after sharing time. Not saying it can't be done but I saw what happened this year to teams that lost thier RBs. So do you live in dream high or mile high?

Yes, he split time with Anderson, who put up better numbers. That's why I'm saying Hillman is replaceable.

What happened to the Patriots is different, they lost two running backs to injury during the season. That's harder to replace than one middle of the road running back in free agency. And it's not like he can't re-sign with Denver anyway; he's not going to break the bank in free agency. Like I said, he's just a guy. You can find guys like him every offseason.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Yes, he split time with Anderson, who put up better numbers. That's why I'm saying Hillman is replaceable.

What happened to the Patriots is different, they lost two running backs to injury during the season. That's harder to replace than one middle of the road running back in free agency. And it's not like he can't re-sign with Denver anyway; he's not going to break the bank in free agency. Like I said, he's just a guy. You can find guys like him every offseason.

CJ and Hillman complemented each other. By not having to carry a full load of snaps they both became more effective.Both are two of the youngest RBs available this year. Both have less wear and tear then many of the FAs available. Both will have plenty of suitors. Both are making less than 1M. I know evrything in Denver is rosey. But, can you at least agree both will get more than they made this year? Let's just start there shall we?