Heres a statistic for you

[msgkings322]

I agree.

This whole conversation started because some people were saying that he IS the best player because of his statistical production. I think the MVP argument is moot now. Westbrook will get that. It still does not make him the best player, just like Steph was not the best player last year or Steve Nash when he won his awards.

Curry's last MVP was more legit than his first IMO. He was scary good on a level never seen last year.

 

[Shanemansj13]

I won't argue with that.

Still, if you were a star player, would you want to play with this guy? I wouldn't. I would much rather team up with guys like Curry or LeBron because they do not have the need to control every facet of the game.

Time will tell, but my bet is that Westbrook continues to post monster numbers and changes teams next year, probably for somewhere like LA. If he wins a championship at any point while still the main guy, I will admit I am wrong. But, I am willing to bet that he never does. Selfish ball does not beat good teams in the NBA, and this tiger ain't changing his stripes.

Like A.I....

 

[tlance]

Curry's last MVP was more legit than his first IMO. He was scary good on a level never seen last year.

I agree.

 

[trojanfan12]

The thing about the MVP award is that it really isn't a "best player" award. It's a "the guy having the best year" award.

A player can have the best year, but not be the best player. I don't think there are very many, if any, people who would say that Westbrook or Harden are better players than Lebron, but they are both having better years than Lebron.

 

[Inimical]

Westbrook’s greatest asset when it comes to MVP voting is the Thunder’s record when he records a triple-double: 31-9.

 

[Inimical]

 

[msgkings322]

Even if they go 0-6, he'll get there.

 

[Inimical]

Honestly if he beats the record you can pretty much book the mvp.

 

[tlance]

Westbrook’s greatest asset when it comes to MVP voting is the Thunder’s record when he records a triple-double: 31-9.

Their is one aspect of the Thunder's record that is a tad misleading, IMO.

Westbrook is literally out there trying to get a triple double every night, even when sometimes it leads him to make the wrong basketball play.

Could it be that the Thunder's record is so crappy when he doesn't get the triple dub because hat basically means Westbrook played poorly?

Something to think about at least. He is clearly playing for triple doubles at this point.

 

[thunderc]

Never seen the guy quit in a game, ever. Of course he wants the record, guess that makes him a jerk. Most athletic player I've ever seen in a sport that has the most athletes out there. By your criteria he can't win, and he doesn't care.

 

[tlance]

Never seen the guy quit in a game, ever. Of course he wants the record, guess that makes him a jerk. Most athletic player I've ever seen in a sport that has the most athletes out there. By your criteria he can't win, and he doesn't care.

It is just so damn ironic to me how much OKC fans love Russ and hate KD. If Russ didn't care about his stats KD would still be there.

And you are right. It will be nearly impossible for him to win in my book. There are only 2 outs that I can see:

1) Stay in OKC and build a legit championship contender (I think this is unlikely)
2) move to a contender and play unselfish basketball

His statistical accomplishments will be remembered forever, and that is great. But, I am more impressed by guys who sacrifice their own stats to win. Russ has never been willing to do that.

 

[trojanfan12]

It is just so damn ironic to me how much OKC fans love Russ and hate KD. If Russ didn't care about his stats KD would still be there.

Nothing ironic at all, imo. Westbrook stayed, KD left. They are fans and will side with the guy who stayed.

And you are right. It will be nearly impossible for him to win in my book. There are only 2 outs that I can see:

1) Stay in OKC and build a legit championship contender (I think this is unlikely)
2) move to a contender and play unselfish basketball

His statistical accomplishments will be remembered forever, and that is great. But, I am more impressed by guys who sacrifice their own stats to win. Russ has never been willing to do that.

To be fair, unless KD has said something that I have missed, we all assume that KD left because Westbrook didn't pass the ball. It's not as if KD was hurting for shots per game, but Westbrook did seem to have a habit of forgetting that he had another pretty good player to help him late in close games.

Having said that, KD has to take some responsibility to step up and demand the ball. I don't remember that happening.

Additionally, Westbrook may be going after triple doubles because of the Thunder's record when he gets one. 31-9 vs. 12-24 is a pretty good indicator that he's doing what he has to for them to win. It's certainly possible that they may have a few more wins if he didn't go after the triple double, but I think the overall record speaks for itself and says that they would ultimately be worse off. It's hard to criticize a guy for going after triple doubles when he knows that's what it takes to win. Should he let them lose games just so people won't call him selfish?

We don't know how he would play on a contender because he's not on one. If he were, maybe he's on a team with a star player who will demand the ball?

In the end, if he really was thinking he could do it by himself. Maybe this will be a good lesson for him like it was for Kobe and for MJ before him?

 

[tlance]

Nothing ironic at all, imo. Westbrook stayed, KD left. They are fans and will side with the guy who stayed.



To be fair, unless KD has said something that I have missed, we all assume that KD left because Westbrook didn't pass the ball. It's not as if KD was hurting for shots per game, but Westbrook did seem to have a habit of forgetting that he had another pretty good player to help him late in close games.

Having said that, KD has to take some responsibility to step up and demand the ball. I don't remember that happening.

Additionally, Westbrook may be going after triple doubles because of the Thunder's record when he gets one. 31-9 vs. 12-24 is a pretty good indicator that he's doing what he has to for them to win. It's certainly possible that they may have a few more wins if he didn't go after the triple double, but I think the overall record speaks for itself and says that they would ultimately be worse off. It's hard to criticize a guy for going after triple doubles when he knows that's what it takes to win. Should he let them lose games just so people won't call him selfish?

We don't know how he would play on a contender because he's not on one. If he were, maybe he's on a team with a star player who will demand the ball?

In the end, if he really was thinking he could do it by himself. Maybe this will be a good lesson for him like it was for Kobe and for MJ before him?

This may sound blasphemous, but a star should not have to demand the ball. Just because MJ and Kobe did does not mean that everyone should. It is sometimes not in the best interest of the team. Russ should have intrinsically known that their shot chart should not have been anywhere near equal in volume. KD should have had 10 more attempts a game than Russ.

Now, IMO, KD is the most talented scorer of all time. Not the best player or even the Best scorer because he does not have that drive that MJ, Kobe and even Russ have. But, his skill set along with his length is unmatched.

KD never demanded the ball because that is not his personality. I think the notion that you have to be a dominant alpha male to be a great player is incorrect, but if the partnership is going to work between 2 superstars, either the better player has to be the alpha or neither (like in GS).

That is why, IMO KD and Russ did not work as well as it should have.

 

[trojanfan12]

This may sound blasphemous, but a star should not have to demand the ball. Just because MJ and Kobe did does not mean that everyone should. It is sometimes not in the best interest of the team. Russ should have intrinsically known that their shot chart should not have been anywhere near equal in volume. KD should have had 10 more attempts a game than Russ.

I agree that a star shouldn't have to demand the ball, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't do it if the situation requires it, which the situation in OKC did.

Westbrook is a lot like Kobe was (especially when he was younger) in that he is sometimes too quick to want to carry the team. Shaq used to have to demand the ball from Kobe sometimes. It happens and if KD didn't do it, that's on him. You've played on teams before, you know as well as I do that you can't expect your teammates to just know what you're thinking. Sometimes you have to speak up.

KD never demanded the ball because that is not his personality. I think the notion that you have to be a dominant alpha male to be a great player is incorrect, but if the partnership is going to work between 2 superstars, either the better player has to be the alpha or neither (like in GS).

Then it's on KD for being a pussy and not wanting to win badly enough to speak up.

 

[thunderc]

And there is #41, tied with the great Oscar Robertson.

 

[Inimical]

And there is #41, tied with the great Oscar Robertson.

Incredibly remarkable to do this in today's game.

 

[tlance]

I agree that a star shouldn't have to demand the ball, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't do it if the situation requires it, which the situation in OKC did.

Westbrook is a lot like Kobe was (especially when he was younger) in that he is sometimes too quick to want to carry the team. Shaq used to have to demand the ball from Kobe sometimes. It happens and if KD didn't do it, that's on him. You've played on teams before, you know as well as I do that you can't expect your teammates to just know what you're thinking. Sometimes you have to speak up.



Then it's on KD for being a pussy and not wanting to win badly enough to speak up.

It is unfair to say he is a pussy. There were plenty of clips of those two arguing on the sidelines. I just think KD is the type of person that will make the best of any situation. That is not a bad thing.

 

[Wishbone]

KD is way too passive. GS was perfect for him. He just doesn't have the fire and drive that Westbrook and others have.

 

[trojanfan12]

It is unfair to say he is a pussy. There were plenty of clips of those two arguing on the sidelines. I just think KD is the type of person that will make the best of any situation. That is not a bad thing.

It's not a bad thing, but it's not doing whatever it takes to win either.

Could you imagine Westbrook getting away with that playing alongside guys like MJ or Kobe? They's knock his ass out and take the ball. lol

 

[tlance]

It's not a bad thing, but it's not doing whatever it takes to win either.

Could you imagine Westbrook getting away with that playing alongside guys like MJ or Kobe? They's knock his ass out and take the ball. lol

Yes they would.

Those partnerships are also ones I could not see working despite the greatness of the individuals.