Heres a statistic for you

[tlance]

His team is now 27-6 when he records a triple double. When he doesn't, they are 12-23. He needs to do exactly what he's been doing. You pick one game and act like it's a trend.

Of course there will be games like last night where his teammates play a bit better than their norm. Those Lakers teams that had Kobe and a bunch of guys, played well at times too. However, over the course of the season, they weren't winning games by depending on those other guys to step up. They were winning games by having Kobe score a bunch of points.

OKC wins by having Westbrook doing what he's been doing. Games like last night just mean that every once in a while, he gets a break and doesn't have to work as hard to get the triple double.

I think the triple double stat is misleading in some ways.

Russ always hunts rebounds, so that aspect is more or less irrelevant.

The part that Is meaningful is the assists. They are 31-9 when he gets double figure assists. They are 15-16 when Russ attempts 25 or more FGs.

 

[tlance]

When Russ shoots less than 20 times -- their record is 8-7.

That is a bit misleading...

5 of those 8 losses were blowouts where he played less than 30 minutes.

 

[tlance]

When Russ shoots less than 20 times -- their record is 8-7.

Perhaps the sweet spot is 20-25 FGA

 

[larryjohn]

Perhaps the sweet spot is 20-25 FGA

Probably -- his record when he shoots more than 30 times is pretty bad.

 

[thunderc]

Thats a good point. The MVP is supposed to be the the best player? Not the best player on the best team. Cause if thats the case it would change a lot of shit.

The MVP is supposed to be just that, the MVP. No one is going to be able to take this from Westbrook and if they do it will be a travesty of justice.

 

[thunderc]

I think the triple double stat is misleading in some ways.

Russ always hunts rebounds, so that aspect is more or less irrelevant.

The part that Is meaningful is the assists. They are 31-9 when he gets double figure assists. They are 15-16 when Russ attempts 25 or more FGs.

Ok, disregard the triple doubles completely. Look at who is leading in scoring and efficiency. Pick what you want, it's Westbrook.

 

[thunderc]

Case and point:

Last night OKC throttled a good Raptor team on the road.

Russ had 24 points on 8-17 and 16 assists to 2 TOs without playing the 4th quarter. When he tries to do too much as a score, the team struggles. When he plays like this, as a facilitator first, they are clearly at their best.

He should be taking 15-20 shots per game and should really never take more than 25. He simply is not an efficient enough scorer to take that many shots. Hell, if he played like this every night, KD would still be there.

Bullshit on KD still being there. If KD played better KD would still be there, I'll go there.

 

[tlance]

Ok, disregard the triple doubles completely. Look at who is leading in scoring and efficiency. Pick what you want, it's Westbrook.

Westbrook's efficiency is awful.

 

[trojanfan12]

Bullshit on KD still being there. If KD played better KD would still be there, I'll go there.

I partially agree with tlance on KD still being there if Westbrook played like he is now.

What I mean is, I don't think KD had a problem with how Westbrook played for most of the game (it's not like KD wasn't getting plenty of shots). I think it was more about how Westbrook played late in close games, especially playoff games. Late in close games, he'd try to win it by himself.

That's not just on Westbrook either. Yes, Westbrook should have remembered at those times, that there was another pretty good player out there with him. But it's also on KD to demand the ball which I don't remember seeing him do. At least not as much as he should have.

 

[thunderc]

Westbrook's efficiency is awful.

Umm, he leads the league.

 

[tlance]

Umm, he leads the league.

Do you know what efficiency means? Because he most certainly does not lead the league.

Here is where Russ ranks among other MVP candidates in the 2 most important efficiency categories:

Assist/TO

League leader: 4.4
Durant: 2.1
Curry: 2.1
LeBron: 2.1
Harden: 1.9
Westbrook 1.9

Effective FG%

League leader: 70.3
Durant: 59.4% (7th)
LeBron: 59.1%
Curry: 57%
Harden: 53.1%

Westbrook: 46.8%

He is not even top 100 in either category.

 

[trojanfan12]

Do you know what efficiency means? Because he most certainly does not lead the league.

Here is where Russ ranks among other MVP candidates in the 2 most important efficiency categories:

Assist/TO

League leader: 4.4
Durant: 2.1
Curry: 2.1
LeBron: 2.1
Harden: 1.9
Westbrook 1.9

Effective FG%

League leader: 70.3
Durant: 59.4% (7th)
LeBron: 59.1%
Curry: 57%
Harden: 53.1%

Westbrook: 46.8%

He is not even top 100 in either category.

Not trying to get in the middle of this and I don't think much of these so called "advanced stats" but I think this may be what he's referring to:

NBA Basketball Player Stats - NBA Efficiency

 

[tlance]

Not trying to get in the middle of this and I don't think much of these so called "advanced stats" but I think this may be what he's referring to:

NBA Basketball Player Stats - NBA Efficiency

That looks like PER (player efficiency rating) which ironically does not do good job charting efficiency.

In PER, a player has to shoot better than 30% from 2 and 21% from 3 to achieve positive scoring contribution. Inefficient scorers like Westbrook still get rewarded. For that reason PER becomes more about who produces the most stats per minute. Not necessarily who produces them efficiently.

 

[thunderc]

It stands for Player Efficiency Rating. Also, check out these clutch rankings:

NBA Miner | NBA Advanced Stats- Clutch Time Stats

 

[tlance]

It stands for Player Efficiency Rating. Also, check out these clutch rankings:

NBA Miner | NBA Advanced Stats- Clutch Time Stats

Read my post.

PER is basically worthless.

 

[thunderc]

Read my post.

PER is basically worthless.

Yet it's titled Player Efficiency Rating.

 

[tlance]

Yet it's titled Player Efficiency Rating.

You are correct on the title. However, if you look into how the stat is actually calculated, you will see what I am talking about. Yes, it does factor in negatives like FG misses and TOs, but because positive stats are rewarded far more heavily, a super high volume player like Westbrook kind of breaks the scale.

In fact, if I were trying to make a argument for PER as a lousy way to measure efficiency, the fact that Westbrook is number 1 is basically case and point.

Trying to say that Westbrook has Been efficient this year is crazy.

 

[thunderc]

It's a calculated thing, he leads it, just like he does scoring, triple doubles, clutch rankings. He is the MVP.

 

[tlance]

It's a calculated thing, he leads it, just like he does scoring, triple doubles, clutch rankings. He is the MVP.

Ok. LOL.

SO you are going to take some stat with the word efficiency in it, and use it to say that he has been efficient even though you have no idea how it is calculated?

If you want to think a guy who is shooting 42% with 5.4 TOs per game is "efficient" than knock yourself out. PER attempts to calculate a player's overall VALUE, not his efficiency. It is really a shame that this stat is being used an an effeciency benchmark because that is not what it calculates.

 

[tlance]

Fantastic game from Westbrook last night and he only took 6 shots. I think his shot selection was probably a bit extreme, but the Thunder are best when he gets others involved instead of forcing action.