GDT 6/29 Cainers @ ROX

[msgkings322]

If we become buyers, I'm thinking we need a RHH OF/1B more than a SP.

Rios and Peavy baby! White Flag II!

White Flag Trade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do we want to take on that much salary, for 2014? It's basically saying next year Lincecum and Pence out, those guys in.

And do we have enough prospects to get it done? Probably have to throw in Blanco too dontcha think?

 

[Stokes1931]

Rios and Peavy baby! White Flag II!

White Flag Trade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do we want to take on that much salary, for 2014? It's basically saying next year Lincecum and Pence out, those guys in.

And do we have enough prospects to get it done? Probably have to throw in Blanco too dontcha think?

Cal says bag 'o' balls.

If the Pale Hose are dumping salary, I am not sure it will take much to get in return for those two. I could see Rios in LF easily. But it would mean goodbye to Pence next season, I think.

 

[Stokes1931]

Nine games, 18 runs, eight losses

Speechless at how inept we have become.

 

[msgkings322]

Cal says bag 'o' balls.

If the Pale Hose are dumping salary, I am not sure it will take much to get in return for those two. I could see Rios in LF easily. But it would mean goodbye to Pence next season, I think.

Well, there are other teams that would take the salary plus maybe throw in real prospects too...Yankees? Orioles? Jays? Etc...

And I did mention that this trade almost guarantees bye bye Tim and Hunter. But Hunter is probably gone anyway, it seems like. We'll never pay as much as he's going to get.

 

[Stokes1931]

9 errors in the last 6 games

Hitting .218 with RISP since May 18

1-13 when committing two errors or more

11-14-2 in series

The wheels have come off, the rims are cracked, the engine is out of oil, the radiator has no fluid, and the driver doesn't seem to know what's happening.

Nice way to treat Cain today for his masterful pitching.

 

[msgkings322]

Cal says bag 'o' balls.

If the Pale Hose are dumping salary, I am not sure it will take much to get in return for those two. I could see Rios in LF easily. But it would mean goodbye to Pence next season, I think.

I think it'd be worth parting with a couple guys precisely because we will have a hole in the rotation and the OF next year too.

And this year we'd have (later in the year of course):

Pagan CF
Scoots 2B
Posey C
Pence RF
Panda 3B
Rios LF
Belt 1B
Crawford SS

Rotation: Bum, Cain, Peavy, Vogelsong/Gaudin, Zito
Pen: Romo, Casilla, Affeldt, Lopez, Mijares, Lincecum, Gaudin/Vogelsong
Bench: Quiroz, Blanco (maybe if not part of deal), Torres, Arias, Abreu

That's a hell of a team if everyone is actually doing what they are supposed to do (which let's face it they aren't right now)

 

[calsnowskier]

MSG, each of those guys still have 45M left on their contacts. Peavey is an injury liability and Rios is a playing liability.

I am not sure I would want them if all it cost was literally a bag o' balls.

Toss in Crain, and now we start talking about putting a small package together.

 

[msgkings322]

MSG, each of those guys still have 45M left on their contacts. Peavey is an injury liability and Rios is a playing liability.

I am not sure I would want them if all it cost was literally a bag o' balls.

Toss in Crain, and now we start talking about putting a small package together.

Not a chance in hell Peavy's option vests in 2015, so he's only $30 mil
Rios is a worse player than Blanco? And not a decent replacement for Pence who ain't coming back next year?
We'd actually be paying less for the rotation spot than we are Timmy's spot, you got any better ideas for starters next year after Cain and Bum?
Crain would be fantastic icing but he will likely be the most sought after reliever at the deadline, by far.

 

[calsnowskier]

Not a chance in hell Peavy's option vests in 2015, so he's only $30 mil
Rios is a worse player than Blanco? And not a decent replacement for Pence who ain't coming back next year?
We'd actually be paying less for the rotation spot than we are Timmy's spot, you got any better ideas for starters next year after Cain and Bum?
Crain would be fantastic icing but he will likely be the most sought after reliever at the deadline, by far.

I realize that about Crain. Part of our package to them to get him will be taking the contracts of Peavey and Rios.

I would HATE to go into the season having to rely on Peaveys back as 20% of our rotation. If we can get him for cheap, than OK, but I do not want to mortgage anything for him.

Timmeh is already off the team, in my mind, so that is a non-issue.

The point of the trade would primarily for this year, so no way I trade Blanco. He is developing into a legit player. And he is near-free. No reason to "toss him in".

I would love to have Pence back, but I agree he will cost a lot. However, with Timmeh and possibly Zito off the books, the G's may splurge a bit on him. Dollars aside, I would rather have Pence than Rios. Pence AND Blanco over Rios? OMG yes.

 

[msgkings322]

I realize that about Crain. Part of our package to them to get him will be taking the contracts of Peavey and Rios.

I would HATE to go into the season having to rely on Peaveys back as 20% of our rotation. If we can get him for cheap, than OK, but I do not want to mortgage anything for him.

Timmeh is already off the team, in my mind, so that is a non-issue.

The point of the trade would primarily for this year, so no way I trade Blanco. He is developing into a legit player. And he is near-free. No reason to "toss him in".

I would love to have Pence back, but I agree he will cost a lot. However, with Timmeh and possibly Zito off the books, the G's may splurge a bit on him. Dollars aside, I would rather have Pence than Rios. Pence AND Blanco over Rios? OMG yes.

Fair enough re Pence and Blanco over Rios, sure...
As far as the rotation, 60% of it in 2014 is up for grabs. We can't just plug in rookies.

 

[calsnowskier]

Fair enough re Pence and Blanco over Rios, sure...
As far as the rotation, 60% of it in 2014 is up for grabs. We can't just plug in rookies.

We can assume we will get Nolasco or Norris (big assumption, I know), so that leaves 2 open spots. I still think Zito stays, so that leaves 1 spot. Kick and Kamp (if they are still with the org) fight it out for #5. We could also attract the cream of the dumpsters to compete for 5 and/or 6/7/8. I think we can expect one of the uber-kids to potentially be ready for light duty late next year as well.

I don't think we have to PAY for Rios and Peavey given their contracts. Placing Crain in the deal I think puts it more into the palatable range.

 

[msgkings322]

We can assume we will get Nolasco or Norris (big assumption, I know), so that leaves 2 open spots. I still think Zito stays, so that leaves 1 spot. Kick and Kamp (if they are still with the org) fight it out for #5. We could also attract the cream of the dumpsters to compete for 5 and/or 6/7/8. I think we can expect one of the uber-kids to potentially be ready for light duty late next year as well.

I don't think we have to PAY for Rios and Peavey given their contracts. Placing Crain in the deal I think puts it more into the palatable range.

Nolasco is a free agent next year isn't he? So that's no help if he's who we get. And he is probably who we are going to get, because Norris will be a hot ticket and we will likely be outbid.

And yes obviously absorbing the Peavy and Rios deals should be enough, except there are lots of contenders and some have money too, and they would be bidding against us. And Crain is flat out not coming to SF, he will be traded to a team that will offer far more in prospects than we will for 2 months of a set up guy.

I don't really have any idea what's going to happen, but the way the market is shaping up, if we truly are buyers, we're going to have to give up something to get something, and it will hurt (Beltran for Wheeler anybody?). That's the trade market.

 

[calsnowskier]

Nolasco is a free agent next year isn't he? So that's no help if he's who we get. And he is probably who we are going to get, because Norris will be a hot ticket and we will likely be outbid.

And yes obviously absorbing the Peavy and Rios deals should be enough, except there are lots of contenders and some have money too, and they would be bidding against us. And Crain is flat out not coming to SF, he will be traded to a team that will offer far more in prospects than we will for 2 months of a set up guy.

I don't really have any idea what's going to happen, but the way the market is shaping up, if we truly are buyers, we're going to have to give up something to get something, and it will hurt (Beltran for Wheeler anybody?). That's the trade market.

Nolasco is a FA. Even better. We can sign him for less than he is making now (he is WAY over paid now).

You are probably right about Crain. He will be a sought-after commodity, and the Giants will likely be shy to pay his price.

However, Boch was emphatic that his preference for help would be in the bully. Maybe Downs? Marmol was just DFA'd. Maybe the Giants sign him (not a claim, dude is making BANK) and see if Rags can work his magic.

 

[tzill]

Fair enough re Pence and Blanco over Rios, sure...
As far as the rotation, 60% of it in 2014 is up for grabs. We can't just plug in rookies.

How do you figure 60% with Cain, Bum, and Tron under contract? Also, Zeets $7mm is a sunk cost, so I can't see SabeySabes not signing him to a two year deal. Really, one spot open and several candidates in the minors for it (or in the majors in Kick's case).

 

[Mays-Fan]

How do you figure 60% with Cain, Bum, and Tron under contract? Also, Zeets $7mm is a sunk cost, so I can't see SabeySabes not signing him to a two year deal. Really, one spot open and several candidates in the minors for it (or in the majors in Kick's case).

Yours is a best-case scenario, his the worst. He is assuming Vogey won't return to form, and Zito will resume his decline, and Timmy won't re-sign/start. Neither of you are wrong.

The answer likely lies somewhere between. IMHO.

 

[msgkings322]

Yours is a best-case scenario, his the worst. He is assuming Vogey won't return to form, and Zito will resume his decline, and Timmy won't re-sign/start. Neither of you are wrong.

The answer likely lies somewhere between. IMHO.

This. Vogelsong showed every sign of turning back into the journeyman nonentity he was his whole career before he went down.

Timmy isn't coming back, that's not even in tzill's 'best case' scenario.

Best case: Bum, Cain, Tron back to form, Zito, rookie
Worst case: Bum, Cain, ?, ?, ?

Even the best case doesn't inspire much confidence. I still think we need one more #3 type guy, for this year and next.

 

[Stokes1931]

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