FIRE HORNACEK...

[trojanfan12]

like i said, watching the knicks play is detrimental to my health, but the few minutes i do watch i see iso's by rose, melo, turn around without lookin 3's by KP, triangle what???? call it what you want, but i don't see any kind of plan carried out on the offense & lol at the defense, which is why i put it on the coach!

this is disorganized ball in every respect!

The triangle actually allows for a certain amount of iso ball. That's why guys like MJ and Kobe thrived in it. However, those iso situations develop naturally as the players and ball move.

The problem for the Knicks is twofold. First, it's a very difficult offense to learn (Phil has said that it takes 2-3 years) and they don't have Phil and Tex Winter teaching it. So, players get frustrated with it and revert to iso ball on their own rather than letting those situations develop naturally.

So, you're correct to a point about it being on the coach, because he probably doesn't know the offense any better than his players. But it's on the FO for forcing him to run it.

As for defense, that's also on your FO. You have Melo who has never played defense for any coach, Rose who, while not bad, has never been known for his defense (and has been chronically injured) and Noah, who was once a very good defensive player, but is a shell of who he used to be.

 

[Pastafazul]

i'm not buying it, maybe if you lived here in NY, and were a fan you mite have a different view....

if i could make you understand where i am coming from, george steinbrenner, he knew what worked for new yorkers, and got it done, if you didn't work for him you were gone, no mater WHO you were! dolan and the rest don't have a f n clue!

as far as melo playin D, he has played it, and very well i mite add, however, you don't want your primary scorer to burn out his legs playin too much of it , so the rest are supposed to pick it up, problem is they have egos too, they want the ball, thats why i get on the coach, his job is supposed to manage these egos!!! and he ain't.

and stop with noah is a shell of himself, thats absurd! there is no chemistry, no cohesion, no teamwork, no leadership... they only win if they get hot hittin 3's...

 

[trojanfan12]

as far as melo playin D, he has played it, and very well i mite add,

I don't think you have watched the same Melo that everyone else has.

however, you don't want your primary scorer to burn out his legs playin too much of it , so the rest are supposed to pick it up,

Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Tim Duncan and pretty much every complete player ever...disagree. Your star
player is supposed to play defense and have the rest of the team follow his lead.

and stop with noah is a shell of himself, thats absurd!

Noah is a shell of himself. Thibs burned him, Rose and couple of other guys out by playing them huge minutes trying to beat Miami when they had Lebron. Noah being a shell of himself is pretty much not debatable.

I hate saying that about him because I love the guy. Anyone on here will tell that I'm a Noah fanboy and wanted him on the Lakers for years. But he just doesn't have it anymore. The effort is still there and always will be, but the minutes and injuries have taken their toll.

He may not be completely out of gas, but the warning light is on.

 

[Pastafazul]

i hear what you are saying, i would be a fool to argue what appears to be common sense, however, in any walk of life, you have someone at the helm that doesn't know what he is doing the rest seems to follow... if they have a system that doesn't work, thats confusing, everything that will go wrong will, and the excuses about this player and that player will start flyin!

i agree that thibs played his players too hard during course of reg season, which in my opinion is why they didn't go deep into PS, but that was that, its a new season, new team, sorry, just don't think noah came into season in shape, got hurt as he was getting there, and now its wash, rinse & repeat!

get jackson out of new york, fire horny, keep KP, and build around him as others have said.

 

[trojanfan12]

i hear what you are saying, i would be a fool to argue what appears to be common sense, however, in any walk of life, you have someone at the helm that doesn't know what he is doing the rest seems to follow... if they have a system that doesn't work, thats confusing, everything that will go wrong will, and the excuses about this player and that player will start flyin!

i agree that thibs played his players too hard during course of reg season, which in my opinion is why they didn't go deep into PS, but that was that, its a new season, new team, sorry, just don't think noah came into season in shape, got hurt as he was getting there, and now its wash, rinse & repeat!

get jackson out of new york, fire horny, keep KP, and build around him as others have said.

Agree with everything except firing Hornacek and Noah. I would give Hornacek a couple of seasons with a rebuilt team to implement his own system rather than being forced to run the triangle. I have a feeling that his offense would look a lot different than what he's running now.

It wouldn't have made much difference if Noah was in shape or not. He just doesn't have much gas left in the tank. It was a bad signing on the Knicks part. You could see him faltering the last couple of seasons in Chicago.

 

[tlance]

i hear what you are saying, i would be a fool to argue what appears to be common sense, however, in any walk of life, you have someone at the helm that doesn't know what he is doing the rest seems to follow... if they have a system that doesn't work, thats confusing, everything that will go wrong will, and the excuses about this player and that player will start flyin!

i agree that thibs played his players too hard during course of reg season, which in my opinion is why they didn't go deep into PS, but that was that, its a new season, new team, sorry, just don't think noah came into season in shape, got hurt as he was getting there, and now its wash, rinse & repeat!

get jackson out of new york, fire horny, keep KP, and build around him as others have said.

You are right about an organization struggling with the wrong person at the helm.

Unfortunately for Knicks fans, those people are Dolan and Phil Jackson. Phil will probably go away soon enough, but firing Hornacek is like putting a bandaid over a severed artery. The problem runs much deeper.

 

[Pastafazul]

Agree with everything except firing Hornacek and Noah. I would give Hornacek a couple of seasons with a rebuilt team to implement his own system rather than being forced to run the triangle. I have a feeling that his offense would look a lot different than what he's running now.

It wouldn't have made much difference if Noah was in shape or not. He just doesn't have much gas left in the tank. It was a bad signing on the Knicks part. You could see him faltering the last couple of seasons in Chicago.

again, i would not argue things mite be different if hornysuk implemented his own system, but he can't, and he knew b4 being hired the triangle was what jerkson wanted.. so f him!

 

[Pastafazul]

You are right about an organization struggling with the wrong person at the helm.

Unfortunately for Knicks fans, those people are Dolan and Phil Jackson. Phil will probably go away soon enough, but firing Hornacek is like putting a bandaid over a severed artery. The problem runs much deeper.

agree wholeheartedly dolan is the prime suspect here... f him too

 

[Pastafazul]

the knicks win, the knicks win, thank God almighty, the knicks win!!!!!

 

[Pastafazul]

had this knucklehead been fired at the 35 game mark as i predicted, us knick fans would not had to have suffered watching this 22pt deficit to a schitt team, a team that is 10 games under .500, At HOME NO LESS!

what the......

 

[bksballer89]

had this knucklehead been fired at the 35 game mark as i predicted, us knick fans would not had to have suffered watching this 22pt deficit to a schitt team, a team that is 10 games under .500, At HOME NO LESS!

what the......

Would help if Melo could stop getting ejected from games. 3rd ejection of the year and we're not at the halfway point.

And what is Rose deal? Just go MIA

 

[The Derski]

Why is this thread always bumped? Do we have alot of Knicks fans or just this one guy? I get the Knicks are a big market but they have been largely off the casual fan's radar for years now.

 

[Taddy Mason]

Why is this thread always bumped? Do we have alot of Knicks fans or just this one guy? I get the Knicks are a big market but they have been largely off the casual fan's radar for years now.

Truthfully, I didn't even realize Hornacek was coaching the Knicks (I'm assuming he his based off of your post). Seeing the original post was from the beginning of the season, I can only speculate the poster is in fact Derrick Rose and he blames the coach for the Knicks not being the super team he knows they really are.

 

[tlance]

Truthfully, I didn't even realize Hornacek was coaching the Knicks (I'm assuming he his based off of your post). Seeing the original post was from the beginning of the season, I can only speculate the poster is in fact Derrick Rose and he blames the coach for the Knicks not being the super team he knows they really are.

The D. Rose no show was clearly Hornacek's fault too.

The roster is filled with talented players who just aren't winners (Rose, Melo, etc.). They need to blow it up. I would like to see Hornacek get a shot with some more coachable players.

 

[Pastafazul]

what the , lol, ummmmmm hello? bumped? what? who? will you taste the soup!!!! got dammit!!!

anyway, none of this happens if you have a coach who disciplines his players, who demands respect from his players, and don't give me the "level" crap, these guys need to have their butts put in its proper place place! .... " white shadow"

 

[tlance]

what the , lol, ummmmmm hello? bumped? what? who? will you taste the soup!!!! got dammit!!!

anyway, none of this happens if you have a coach who disciplines his players, who demands respect from his players, and don't give me the "level" crap, these guys need to have their butts put in its proper place place! .... " white shadow"

It ain't the coach dude!

The fact that Rose is not getting suspended proves that beyond a shadow of a doubt. The coach does not make that call. That comes from the front office and the owner. They have set the tone. If you think Hornacek actually has the power to discipline one of his "star" players, then I fear you are the clueless one here.

 

[Pastafazul]

no, i am not the clueless one, and its posts/comments/opinions like this that are a testament of why things are so flucked up, not just with the knicks, but throughout the world, MONEY, POWER... someone needs to have balls to say it like it is, and back it up!

the goal in sport is to win, to put the best out there to win, and its the coaches job to figure it out!

 

[tlance]

no, i am not the clueless one, and its posts/comments/opinions like this that are a testament of why things are so flucked up, not just with the knicks, but throughout the world, MONEY, POWER... someone needs to have balls to say it like it is, and back it up!

the goal in sport is to win, to put the best out there to win, and its the coaches job to figure it out!

That is fine to say, but it isn't the reality of the situation at hand. Players and coaches are partners in today's NBA, and when push comes to shove the star player is ALWAYS going to win a fued with the coach. Coaches are replaceable, and they know this.

Carry on with your 1960s way of thinking, but while I agree that the players have far too much power than they should, it is a reality that we are forced to deal with. You can blame Hornacek all you want, but the truth is that he is little more than a puppet in a bad organization. Firing him solves absolutely nothing.

 

[trojanfan12]

That is fine to say, but it isn't the reality of the situation at hand. Players and coaches are partners in today's NBA, and when push comes to shove the star player is ALWAYS going to win a fued with the coach. Coaches are replaceable, and they know this.

Carry on with your 1960s way of thinking, but while I agree that the players have far too much power than they should, it is a reality that we are forced to deal with. You can blame Hornacek all you want, but the truth is that he is little more than a puppet in a bad organization. Firing him solves absolutely nothing.

Agree. The balance of power has shifted too far. Coaches can now only implement the amount of discipline their star player will allow.

If Hornacek were the first coach that couldn't get guys like Melo and DRose to fall in line, then I could see the point of calling for his head.

But that's not the case. With the Knicks, Hornacek was handed a lineup of broken toys and ill fitting pieces and then forced to run an offensive system that he hasn't coached or played in and probably doesn't believe in.

Unfortunately, the motto of most NBA teams (and some fans) seems to be that it's easier to get rid of 1 coach than several players.

 

[Pastafazul]

agree with you wholeheartedly, so, what comes to your mind when i bring up a coach like popovich, he ain't from the '60's