Felix and the 2014 CY

[cezero]

There's that. There also that, when making this comparison, I don't think it's fair to eliminate Hernandez' eight best starts, but you said "any."

The real question now is, which team will Cleveland trade Kluber to for a half dozen Penthouse mags, a case of big league chew and a fungo bat?

I wasn't aware that Sale was quite that dominant.

Now I am.

Thanks.

 

[StanMarsh51]

I took the 7 starters who got CY votes and compared them to each other in the categories I mentioned above. I ranked them 1-7 in each category with 1 being the best score and 7 being the worst score. And then added each of their scores together for a total score. The end result looked like this:
1. Sale (18)
2. Hernadnez (24)
3. Lester (27)
4. Kluber (28)
5. Scherzer (38)
6. Price (40)
7. Hughes (49)

Sale placed first in ERA+, K/9, and average WAR per start. Felix placed first in BAA and WHIP.

Statistics are flawed in that they can never tell the whole story, regardless of what they represent. Sale, Kluber and Hernandez all would have been solid selections. You can even make a case for Lester. The other three were never in the hunt.

The issue with Sale is the workload factor....174 innings compared to guys like Felix/Kluber throwing 235. And one can argue that with less innings, it tends to be easier to keep rate stats low, given pitchers often tire out with more innings/workload, and hitters would be getting more looks at the pitcher over the course of the season, which could be a disadvantage for the pitcher.

 

[cowboys64219]

The mariners had him skip starts against texas, no pitcher should win any award doing this.

 

[gowazzu02]

What did Kluber do better then Felix? I pointed to Felixs dominant starts vs the best offenses in baseball. Were klubers totals better overall?

I know Felix lost or got ND's when he gave up 2 runs or less like 10 times this year.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Meh. It's tough to chop up seasons like that. Maybe the teams were offensively slumping some when Hernandez saw them? Six starts is also a pretty small sample. That 5.40 ERA in six starts was significantly skewed by the two worst starts of Kluber's season when he went a combined 6 INN and gave up 10 ER for a combined 15.00 ERA.

Regardless, it looks pretty close to me and, honestly, I'm a little surprised Kluber won it. I'm not surprised there are a lot of butthurt Mariners fans.

Slinky, your on a team board, and trolling teams boards is not allowed, you want to bad mouth Mariners fans, take it to MLB general boards.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Slinky, your on a team board, and trolling teams boards is not allowed, you want to bad mouth Mariners fans, take it to MLB general boards.

Oh. My. God.

This again? How is that bad mouthing Mariners fans? In that very paragraph, I said that I -- and I am an Indians fan -- am surprised that Kluber won it over Hernandez. Does it not make sense that a decent sized contingency of the Mariners' fan base would be butthurt? Does my paragraph not imply that I myself, were I a Mariners fan, would indeed be butthurt?

Whatever, though. I think I get it. Only really, really nice things about teams and their fans on team boards. No objective baseball discussion on team boards. I think I can oblige.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Oh. My. God.

This again? How is that bad mouthing Mariners fans? In that very paragraph, I said that I -- and I am an Indians fan -- am surprised that Kluber won it over Hernandez. Does it not make sense that a decent sized contingency of the Mariners' fan base would be butthurt? Does my paragraph not imply that I myself, were I a Mariners fan, would indeed be butthurt?

Whatever, though. I think I get it. Only really, really nice things about teams and their fans on team boards. No objective baseball discussion on team boards. I think I can oblige.

Teams boards are for fans of that team, visitors need to mind their manners. Consider it like visiting the in laws, you got to watch what you say and how you say it.

Appreciate your cooperation here Slinky.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

Teams boards are for fans of that team, visitors need to mind their manners. Consider it like visiting the in laws, you got to watch what you say and how you say it.

Appreciate your cooperation here Slinky.

It's totally reasonable to compare Kyle Seager to Mike Stanton.

 

[blstoker]

I'm with you in being surprised that Kluber got it, but with the exception of March, he was good all season. It's probably just that no one took him seriously, or noticed, until the end of the season that gives the perception that he came on late.

He was good all year, but his march was bad enough that he didn't get his ERA under 3 until the end of June. He really doesn't get notice til the end, because his season numbers really didn't warrant it. After his September 1st start, he's 13-9 with a 2.71 ERA. At that time, Felix was 13-5 with a 2.23 ERA and Sale was 11-3 with a 2.11. At that point, he was rightfully not even in the conversation (everyone would have shit kittens had he won over those two with those numbers).

So basically, the voters decided the award over the last 5 starts of the season (6 for Felix, 4 for Sale):

Kluber - 5-0 1.12 ERA 40.1IP 54K 5BB 0.917WHIP 5 QS
Felix - 2-1 1.66 ERA 38IP 43K 11BB 0.947WHIP 4 QS
Sale - 1-1 2.52 ERA 25IP 30K 8BB 1.120WHIP 3 QS

Felix had a similar race against Zach Greinke for the 2009 Cy Young award, where Felix was in the Kluber role (started slow, and then came on late against a guy who started fast and had one bad month in August). In that race, Greinke won.

 

[Podunkparte]

Yeah, the more it sinks in, the more I think Felix still should have won the award. Don't get me wrong, Kluber had a great year, but Felix was the best pitcher in the AL this season. Look at his numbers against the top 3 offenses in the AL and it's not close. His 16 straight starts of 7+IP 2 or less ER was historic.

I absolutely think the late season numbers, which by the way, would have come against at least some players brought up late in the season by teams out of it, swayed the voters when this should have been a true season-long award.

I feel bad for Felix, but I really think the important thing is to get the guy into the postseason this coming season and then the personal awards just don't matter. I need to see him pitch a playoff game!

 

[PolarVortex]

It's totally reasonable to compare Kyle Seager to Mike Stanton.

I saw the post in the other thread that you are refferring to. The poster was asking what Seager would be worth if Stanton is worth $325 million? That is a reasonable question to me. I think that when negotiations begin for signing Seagar longterm, the dollar value is going to be alot higher than some people expect.

$!00 million is the new $60 million. $150 million is the new $100 million. The opening bid for Seagar, just to get his agent's attention, is probably a 6 year/$100 million contract. And it will ultimately go higher.

 

[blstoker]

I absolutely think the late season numbers, which by the way, would have come against at least some players brought up late in the season by teams out of it, swayed the voters when this should have been a true season-long award.

Here's Kluber's last 5 starts and the players who were mostly late season call ups (may have had stints earlier in year, but play most of their time late in the season).

Chicago WS - won, 3-1 9IP 1 R 0 ER 8 K

Avisail Garcia
Andy Wilkins
Carlos Sanchez
Jordan Danks

Twins - won, 8-2 8.1IP 2 R 2 ER 7 K

Kennys Vargas

Astros - won, 4-2 7IP 1 R 1 ER 14 K

John Stassi
Gregorio Petit

Twins - won, 7-2 8Ip 2 R 2 ER 14 K

Kennys Vargas
Chris Hermann

Rays - won, 1-0 8Ip 0 R 11 K

Nick Franklin

So, 10 late season call ups in 5 starts isn't bad. Actually, it's a lot fewer than I thought it would be. I'm sure it helped that he pitched against the 2 worst offenses in the AL in 2 of those starts.

Now, the quality of teams that they faced were definitely different. Kluber's opponents average winning percentage was .444 (not one had a winning record, the best being the Rays at 77-85). Felix on the other hand, had opponents with an average winning percentage of .540 (4 games against teams who made the playoffs).

 

[PolarVortex]

The mariners had him skip starts against texas, no pitcher should win any award doing this.

Why's that? Because the Rangers were such an offensive jaggernaut last year? This isn't 2012. The Rangers were 10th in runs scored in the AL and finished with only 3 runs more than the team with the least hitter-friendly park in the AL.