Eagles post game

[kbso83432]

it depends on how the season ends. I agree with you a losing record this year RR is most likely gone. 9-8 playoff appearance and lose in the playoffs will probably be evaluated more closely. Out of those 9 wins if we beat Philly or Dallas that should be a benefit to RR. IF we lose close ones to those teams, I think Harris will consider twice if he fires RR. Like I said the win prediction total was 6.5 and miss the playoffs. RR gets 9 wins and makes the playoffs its an overachievement.

You gotta look at it this way too Dean. In your fourth year should your Vegas win total be 6.5?

 

[Stymietee]

it depends on how the season ends. I agree with you a losing record this year RR is most likely gone. 9-8 playoff appearance and lose in the playoffs will probably be evaluated more closely. Out of those 9 wins if we beat Philly or Dallas that should be a benefit to RR. IF we lose close ones to those teams, I think Harris will consider twice if he fires RR. Like I said the win prediction total was 6.5 and miss the playoffs. RR gets 9 wins and makes the playoffs its an overachievement.

Interesting way to evaluate and I won't knock your methodology. Instead let me offer you a more sound way to evaluate big wins and tightly contested games against playoff caliber teams.

Once the team has gained that win or evenly fought the opposition, shouldn't the focus immediately become one that looks for further signs of improvement? If you agree then the earliest indicator would come in the following week or weeks. Failure, then tells you that what you believed to be improvement was nothing more than an aberration. Take a look back at the actual history of RR's teams in DC, and you'll find very little consistent follow-up after so-called big wins and tightly contested losses to big-time teams.
In 2020, they finished with a 7-9 record and remarkably won the division. The big time win in that season was a 23-15 win against the 49ers. The follow-up resulted in two straight losses to Seattle and Carolina.
In the 2021 they ripped off 4 straight wins against some pretty meager teams and followed that up with 4 straight division losses to Dallas, and Philadelphia. Finishing 3rd in the division with a 7-10 record.
Last year the big time win was in November against the Eagles and they actually followed that win with wins against Houston and Atlanta! Improvement right? Nope, with opportunities to announce that at long last this team had turned the corner, they tied the Giants, then lost to the Giants, 49ers and Browns consecutively.

 

[deanpet21]

You gotta look at it this way too Dean. In your fourth year should your Vegas win total be 6.5?

depends on the team, but i get your point. 2020 overachieved. 2021 underachieved. 2022 stagnant. 2023???

 

[deanpet21]

Interesting way to evaluate and I won't knock your methodology. Instead let me offer you a more sound way to evaluate big wins and tightly contested games against playoff caliber teams.

Once the team has gained that win or evenly fought the opposition, shouldn't the focus immediately become one that looks for further signs of improvement? If you agree then the earliest indicator would come in the following week or weeks. Failure, then tells you that what you believed to be improvement was nothing more than an aberration. Take a look back at the actual history of RR's teams in DC, and you'll find very little consistent follow-up after so-called big wins and tightly contested losses to big-time teams.
In 2020, they finished with a 7-9 record and remarkably won the division. The big time win in that season was a 23-15 win against the 49ers. The follow-up resulted in two straight losses to Seattle and Carolina.
In the 2021 they ripped off 4 straight wins against some pretty meager teams and followed that up with 4 straight division losses to Dallas, and Philadelphia. Finishing 3rd in the division with a 7-10 record.
Last year the big time win was in November against the Eagles and they actually followed that win with wins against Houston and Atlanta! Improvement right? Nope, with opportunities to announce that at long last this team had turned the corner, they tied the Giants, then lost to the Giants, 49ers and Browns consecutively.

IN 2020 the big-time win was beating the undefeated Stealers. In 2021 the big-time win was beating the undefeated Bucs. You are right about 2022 but we couldn't beat the Giants or Browns and we missed the playoffs. I agree there hasn't been consistency with RR teams after big wins, but he managed to get these big wins every year he has been here, this year is still in doubt but almost did it again last week.

We can go back and forth on this we wont know until the season is over and see how Harris approaches the situation. From the players perspective I dont think they want RR fired right now. OF course, that could change.

 

[redskinsfan1963]

depends on the team, but i get your point.

one would think an nfl coach with nearly 13 seasons could get more wins out of any team he coached.we are way past the point of rr being a good coach

 

[deanpet21]

one would think an nfl coach with nearly 13 seasons could get more wins out of any team he coached.we are way past the point of rr being a good coach

good coaches have had bad seasons.

 

[duke1861]

good coaches have had bad seasons.

Yes, but Rivera has only 3 playoff wins and 3 winning seasons in 12 years as a HC in the league.
To me, that means he has had more bad seasons than good. Am I right?

 

[duke1861]

IN 2020 the big-time win was beating the undefeated Stealers. In 2021 the big-time win was beating the undefeated Bucs. You are right about 2022 but we couldn't beat the Giants or Browns and we missed the playoffs. I agree there hasn't been consistency with RR teams after big wins, but he managed to get these big wins every year he has been here, this year is still in doubt but almost did it again last week.

We can go back and forth on this we wont know until the season is over and see how Harris approaches the situation. From the players perspective I dont think they want RR fired right now. OF course, that could change.

So a big win each year overshadows the entire years performance?
This isn't college football where knocking off a top 10 team results in the fans storming the field and the coach getting an extension. It is a week to week league and the successful teams are those that find consistency.
You have mentioned the eagles game several times. The team showed grit, and howell played well.
You neglect the Buffalo game though and don't talk about it. You only see the here and now and fail to view the past or consider things to possibly come. Looking at the totality of something is more important than the here and now.
I believe this is what sty is saying.

 

[deanpet21]

Yes, but Rivera has only 3 playoff wins and 3 winning seasons in 12 years as a HC in the league.
To me, that means he has had more bad seasons than good. Am I right?

yes you are

 

[deanpet21]

So a big win each year overshadows the entire years performance?
This isn't college football where knocking off a top 10 team results in the fans storming the field and the coach getting an extension. It is a week to week league and the successful teams are those that find consistency.
You have mentioned the eagles game several times. The team showed grit, and howell played well.
You neglect the Buffalo game though and don't talk about it. You only see the here and now and fail to view the past or consider things to possibly come. Looking at the totality of something is more important than the here and now.
I believe this is what sty is saying.

yes, i agree but what im saying he has won big games here. Its not all bad. We dont know how Harris will approach this at the end of the season

 

[redskinsfan1963]

riveria,s a joke.the sooner he,s gone the better

 

[duke1861]

yes, i agree but what im saying he has won big games here. Its not all bad. We dont know how Harris will approach this at the end of the season

Nope, you are right.
He has done good things on and off the field.

 

[PDay8810]

riveria,s a joke.the sooner he,s gone the better

can not beat this guys content to the forum. Another outstanding observation here

 

[duke1861]

can not beat this guys content to the forum. Another outstanding observation here

You are killing me smalls...lol

Good luck to your rangers..

 

[j_y19]

If he will let go a consistent playoff coach in Doc Rivers , he will let go of a coach who struggles at around 500 .
They are in the business of competing for and winning Super bowls not struggling to reach 500 and a playoff appearance now and then even a win .

The question is after 4 yrs do you think we can make a superbowl this yr or next ?

by my usual metric a coach gets 5 yrs however in that time yr 1 is for eval , yr 2 get your guys to run your system , yr 3 you make a winning record, yr 4 you are competing for championships. Year 5 you cement it .
this has been my philosophy for decades and quite frankly RR has failed to reach even the minimum goals I have set no winning seasons and no where near competing for super bowls , hence my NFC title game appearance expectation

half a decade is clearly enough

It’s gonna take a playoff win this year for Ron to have any chance of saving his job. Honestly, I’m not even sure Ron wants this job anymore. I wouldn’t be surprised if he is just fulfilling his contract. He seems almost disinterested at times. EB will be the next HC unless he unexpectedly falls apart the rest of this season.

 

[duke1861]

It’s gonna take a playoff win this year for Ron to have any chance of saving his job. Honestly, I’m not even sure Ron wants this job anymore. I wouldn’t be surprised if he is just fulfilling his contract. He seems almost disinterested at times. EB will be the next HC unless he unexpectedly falls apart the rest of this season.

Like I said, he just wanders around the side line similar to the last years of Bobby bowden.

I do think he is tired of thr gaffes during interviews as well. He does talk to much as noted by other posters here.

I do hope EB is the coach in waiting if the offense keeps producing.

My perfect scenerio is for harris to give Rivera the option to step down and ask EB if there is a GM he would like to work with. I am sure it's someone on the chiefs, but I could be wrong.

Secure the GM
Secure GM approval of having EB be the HC
Have the GM build the front office
Have EB build his coaching staff

My opinion only and only if Howell and the offense keep humming.

 

[Stymietee]

IN 2020 the big-time win was beating the undefeated Stealers. In 2021 the big-time win was beating the undefeated Bucs. You are right about 2022 but we couldn't beat the Giants or Browns and we missed the playoffs. I agree there hasn't been consistency with RR teams after big wins, but he managed to get these big wins every year he has been here, this year is still in doubt but almost did it again last week.

We can go back and forth on this we wont know until the season is over and see how Harris approaches the situation. From the players perspective I dont think they want RR fired right now. OF course, that could change.

Okay, we'll play it your way...

2020 after winning against the Steelers, then won against the lowly 49ers and followed that with two straight losses against Seattle and Carolina.
2021 I gave you the Bucs and the 3 following games in which they won, all good wins but with the season on the line and your favorite thing in sight (a playoff berth) in play what happened? Four straight divisional losses to the Goat-ropers, Eagles, Goat-ropers again, and the Eagles following that.
RR teams are a reflection of the man himself as a HC...mediocre at best (worse if you don't count Cam Newton)

Of course, we can go back and forth over this but that's ONLY because you refuse to see that on the extreme, an undefeated season in which the margin of victory is greater than 20 points per game all ending in a lop-sided SB victory wouldn't be the metric by which Rivera is judged because that would be an aberration from the norm...



Your insistence that this season should be the metric by which he is judged dismisses his history and doesn't answer the most pressing questions of all... would the team be any less than what they are (.500 or less) with EB in charge? Did RR tell the truth when he publicly stated that the team practices harder, is more detailed oriented and has an improved work ethic since EB arrived? Does EB do something that Rivera has never done... holds his players accountable and to a higher standard? Finally, is it worth it to lose EB in order to keep Rivera around?

Don't be surprised to learn that Rivera has already sealed his fate by hiring EB!

 

[deanpet21]

Okay, we'll play it your way...

2020 after winning against the Steelers, then won against the lowly 49ers and followed that with two straight losses against Seattle and Carolina.
2021 I gave you the Bucs and the 3 following games in which they won, all good wins but with the season on the line and your favorite thing in sight (a playoff berth) in play what happened? Four straight divisional losses to the Goat-ropers, Eagles, Goat-ropers again, and the Eagles following that.
RR teams are a reflection of the man himself as a HC...mediocre at best (worse if you don't count Cam Newton)

Of course, we can go back and forth over this but that's ONLY because you refuse to see that on the extreme, an undefeated season in which the margin of victory is greater than 20 points per game all ending in a lop-sided SB victory wouldn't be the metric by which Rivera is judged because that would be an aberration from the norm...

View attachment 342300

Your insistence that this season should be the metric by which he is judged dismisses his history and doesn't answer the most pressing questions of all... would the team be any less than what they are (.500 or less) with EB in charge? Did RR tell the truth when he publicly stated that the team practices harder, is more detailed oriented and has an improved work ethic since EB arrived? Does EB do something that Rivera has never done... holds his players accountable and to a higher standard? Finally, is it worth it to lose EB in order to keep Rivera around?

Don't be surprised to learn that Rivera has already sealed his fate by hiring EB!

I agree if EB fixes the offense and Howell does well, we cant afford to lose EB. Thats saying if EB is offered a HC position. Im already on record in saying this. Cant take EB away from Howell. But if EB does not get a HC offer and we do well this year, EB is on a 2 year contract so we will not lose him. RR would finish his contract and if we play well give EB the HC job in 2025.

I know EB has a huge role here if we win or the offense succeeds. No doubt.

 

[Stymietee]

I agree if EB fixes the offense and Howell does well, we cant afford to lose EB. Thats saying if EB is offered a HC position. Im already on record in saying this. Cant take EB away from Howell. But if EB does not get a HC offer and we do well this year, EB is on a 2 year contract so we will not lose him. RR would finish his contract and if we play well give EB the HC job in 2025.

I know EB has a huge role here if we win or the offense succeeds. No doubt.

I'm not sure what you mean by "IF" EB fixes the offense... he already has! How can this be confirmed? Well, go back to when Rivera confirmed the reports that players came to him with complaints against EB for working them too hard! That confirmation was a damning admission that he (Rivera) had NOT changed the culture and that these players felt comfortable enough to report to their mommy figure for relief from that big bad higher standard man. Do you remember Rivera's response to the players? ( Go talk to EB) Yeah, it was pretty telling!

After 4 weeks we know positively that the offense works, it looks better to the eye, and they do move the ball in a more impressive fashion than other offenses. A secondary, look at the Chiefs' struggles asks the balancing question about EB's influence there. (Remember the question about EB was... was it him or Andy Reid)

One other thing, the team owner sets the agenda, do you honestly believe that Josh, Ervin, and company are interested in average (mediocre) or championships? Hiring EB as HC now sends the message that there's a new sheriff in town and you're going to measure up or get shipped out. In real terms, it plays out like this...
Rivera... "The only way to learn and grow and get better is to play."
EB.... "My job is to clean up the shit and we continue to move forward."

Rivera..." One of the things that I want to make sure everybody understands is that when you delegate authority, you have to set the standard."
(after learning that the players were disgruntled with EB's standards)
Rivera... "Go talk to him (Eric.)"

Rivera... "I just am going to go out, do my job, coach as hard as I can and see what happens."
EB... " If I don't do my job, they will fire my ass!"

​

 

[duke1861]

I'm not sure what you mean by "IF" EB fixes the offense... he already has! How can this be confirmed? Well, go back to when Rivera confirmed the reports that players came to him with complaints against EB for working them too hard! That confirmation was a damning admission that he (Rivera) had NOT changed the culture and that these players felt comfortable enough to report to their mommy figure for relief from that big bad higher standard man. Do you remember Rivera's response to the players? ( Go talk to EB) Yeah, it was pretty telling!

After 4 weeks we know positively that the offense works, it looks better to the eye, and they do move the ball in a more impressive fashion than other offenses. A secondary, look at the Chiefs' struggles asks the balancing question about EB's influence there. (Remember the question about EB was... was it him or Andy Reid)

One other thing, the team owner sets the agenda, do you honestly believe that Josh, Ervin, and company are interested in average (mediocre) or championships? Hiring EB as HC now sends the message that there's a new sheriff in town and you're going to measure up or get shipped out. In real terms, it plays out like this...
Rivera... "The only way to learn and grow and get better is to play."
EB.... "My job is to clean up the shit and we continue to move forward."

Rivera..." One of the things that I want to make sure everybody understands is that when you delegate authority, you have to set the standard."
(after learning that the players were disgruntled with EB's standards)
Rivera... "Go talk to him (Eric.)"

Rivera... "I just am going to go out, do my job, coach as hard as I can and see what happens."
EB... " If I don't do my job, they will fire my ass!"

​

Beautiful Sty...Beautiful my friend...

My fear is that Rivera will get credit for the work EB has done.
We can't have another Gruden/McVay situation here.

I think Harris is a wise man...we will see.