Dungy hearts Brady

[DirtDirtDirt]

I am triggered as a Chiefs fan every time someone says Cassel had a better season in 2010 in KC than NE. Numbers lie sometimes. The RB with the Jim Brown YPC tends to mess up normal football orthodoxy along with luck.

And the worst postseason game vs Baltimore that Ive ever seen from a Qb in my entire life

 

[soxfan1468927]

I am triggered as a Chiefs fan every time someone says Cassel had a better season in 2010 in KC than NE. Numbers lie sometimes. The RB with the Jim Brown YPC tends to mess up normal football orthodoxy along with luck.

You want to call it comparable, call it comparable. Chiefs carried the ball 556 times at 4.7 Y/A, Patriots carried it 513 times at 4.4 Y/A. You think that makes up the difference between throwing to Moss and Welker as opposed to Bowe and Moeaki?

 

[soxfan1468927]

And the worst postseason game vs Baltimore that Ive ever seen from a Qb in my entire life

I always think of Culpepper back in the Giants run in 2000.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Seems like a statistic that perfectly supports the fact that BOTH BB and Brady are both high or at the top of the all time list...

Well they've lost 4 games in which they gave up fewer points than average and won 8 where they gave up more points than average.

 

[YankeeRebel]

Bill Belichick was an average NFL coach before Tom Brady . That's fact . There is no viable, logical system of analysis you can use that would not have Brady number 1. Even the people who ranked him second are fucking insane

Actually I don't agree with that at all. When he was a D Coord for NYG he coached the best and scariest D in the league at the time. He went to Cleveland where no one is allowed to succeed they are or were a team that would not commit to excellence. Belichick was very much a great coach prior to TB his situation was not great.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

I always think of Culpepper back in the Giants run in 2000.

Matt Ryan in a 21-2 loss to the Gmen was a pretty special one as well

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Actually I don't agree with that at all. When he was a D Coord for NYG he coached the best and scariest D in the league at the time. He went to Cleveland where no one is allowed to succeed they are or were a team that would not commit to excellence. Belichick was very much a great coach prior to TB his situation was not great.

^^^^^

patriots fan

 

[Fountain City Blues]

And the worst postseason game vs Baltimore that Ive ever seen from a Qb in my entire life

Not shockingly that game went to shit like magic when Jamaal was out of the game.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

You want to call it comparable, call it comparable. Chiefs carried the ball 556 times at 4.7 Y/A, Patriots carried it 513 times at 4.4 Y/A. You think that makes up the difference between throwing to Moss and Welker as opposed to Bowe and Moeaki?

The primary back is pushing well over 6 yards a carry for the majority of the years. There was a pretty clear difference in the offense when he was and was not on the field. See playoff game for details.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

And the worst postseason game vs Baltimore that Ive ever seen from a Qb in my entire life

Do you even Chief?

 

[cerealboi]

Can't both BB and Brady be awesome? Love BB, but one glaring problem with Brady is the "product of the system" argument is the 2000 season where the Pats went 5-11 under BB with a lot of the players that ultimately went on to form the dynasty.

Now if that was BB's first year headcoaching you could write it off as him getting his feet wet as head coach. But it wasn't. He'd had moderate success with the Browns (at least from the Browns perspective).

 

[soxfan1468927]

The primary back is pushing well over 6 yards a carry for the majority of the years. There was a pretty clear difference in the offense when he was and was not on the field. See playoff game for details.

Okay so do you think Cassel was better in 2008 throwing to Moss/Welker than he was in 2010 throwing to Bowe and Moeaki because in KC he had a dominant Jamaal Charles for 22% of the plays?

 

[rmilia1]

Actually I don't agree with that at all. When he was a D Coord for NYG he coached the best and scariest D in the league at the time. He went to Cleveland where no one is allowed to succeed they are or were a team that would not commit to excellence. Belichick was very much a great coach prior to TB his situation was not great.

The Browns made the playoffs 5 of the previous 6 seasons before BB got that job

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Okay so do you think Cassel was better in 2008 throwing to Moss/Welker than he was in 2010 throwing to Bowe and Moeaki because in KC he had a dominant Jamaal Charles for 22% of the plays?

I think he is the exact same player now he was then. He is just highly sheltered for different but varied reasons in 2010 and 2008. Those two years are convenient outliers, nothing more, nothing less. He was awful all the same in essentially the same ways. He's a one year wonder in both stops for a reason. The fact he has been completely abysmal every other year says a lot more than 2010 or 2008 do.

 

[soxfan1468927]

I think he is the exact same player now he was then. He is just highly sheltered for different but varied reasons in 2010 and 2008. Those two years are convenient outliers, nothing more, nothing less. He was awful all the same in essentially the same ways. He's a one year wonder in both stops for a reason. The fact he has been completely abysmal every other year says a lot more than 2010 or 2008 do.

That's fine, but it goes against the hyperbole that is thrown out there regarding Cassel in 2008. Which is why I brought up 2010 as an example. The "Belichick went 11-5 with Cassel" argument is used so often and the best example to counter that just happens to be Cassel himself. A QB can have a very good season, and even win a lot of games, if he has talent around him. Cassel happened to be in that scenario twice when we all know what Cassel really is. It's not something that is specific to Belichick or the Pats.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

That's fine, but it goes against the hyperbole that is thrown out there regarding Cassel in 2008. Which is why I brought up 2010 as an example. The "Belichick went 11-5 with Cassel" argument is used so often and the best example to counter that just happens to be Cassel himself. A QB can have a very good season, and even win a lot of games, if he has talent around him. Cassel happened to be in that scenario twice when we all know what Cassel really is. It's not something that is specific to Belichick or the Pats.

The really weird thing about 2010 is that was a really putrid offense outside of the overrated Dwayne Bowe and pre-ACL Charles. Probably bottom 5 offensive talent on paper but it didn't end up that way. 2011-2012 was a much more accurate representation of what that offense really was.

But yes, the hyperbole with Cassel/Brady is just as dumb now as it was in 2010 or so.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Can't both BB and Brady be awesome? Love BB, but one glaring problem with Brady is the "product of the system" argument is the 2000 season where the Pats went 5-11 under BB with a lot of the players that ultimately went on to form the dynasty.

Now if that was BB's first year headcoaching you could write it off as him getting his feet wet as head coach. But it wasn't. He'd had moderate success with the Browns (at least from the Browns perspective).

Yes, they can and they are. You do not maintain success for this long without being an excellent coach. I think it's absurd to assume that Brady is just masking Belichick flaws. They've taken 3 picks in the top half of the first round in the last 17 drafts, and they've still won.

 

[YankeeRebel]

The Browns made the playoffs 5 of the previous 6 seasons before BB got that job

And the year before 1990 they were 3-10 he doubled there wins in 1991

In 89 they won one playoff game against the Bills
In 88 they lost the wild card round
87 they were decent lost the AFCCG game to Denver

But from there the decline began four years before he arrived

 

[rmilia1]

And the year before 1990 they were 3-10 he doubled there wins in 1991

In 89 they won one playoff game against the Bills
In 88 they lost the wild card round
87 they were decent lost the AFCCG game to Denver

But from there the decline began four years before he arrived

So like o said, they made it 5 of 6 years? Lol

 

[YankeeRebel]

So like o said, they made it 5 of 6 years? Lol

OKay act like you weren't trying to go somewhere else, I don't really care you got the point.