Defensive line units ranked by Fox Sports

[ericd7633]

But seriously, you're telling me you'd take Arkansas' offense over nearly all of Oklahoma, Clemson, Alabama, Ohio State, Baylor, Oregon, Notre Dame, TCU, etc? Have at it. I'll enjoy my wins.

Definitely taking them over Bama, OSU, Oregon, and TCU w/out hesitation. The more I think about it OU as well.

 

[bamafan4evr12]

This thread has me like...

 

[ericd7633]

By season's end when OSU woke up and put in Barrett, they were superior. Had they done that from the start of the offseason program and let him be the QB the entire year, there's a good chance we're celebrating a 2nd straight NC.

Arkansas averaged 40 ppg in their last 4 games of the season against 3 defenses that finished in the top 25 of defensive efficiency and the other was ranked 34.

Ohio State averaged 28 ppg in their last 4 games of the season against 2 defenses that finished in the top 25 of defensive efficiency and the other two were ranked 46th and 64th respectively.

So you would be incorrect if we're going to use facts.

 

[Across The Field]

Arkansas averaged 40 ppg in their last 4 games of the season against 3 defenses that finished in the top 25 of defensive efficiency and the other was ranked 34.

Ohio State averaged 28 ppg in their last 4 games of the season against 2 defenses that finished in the top 25 of defensive efficiency and the other two were ranked 46th and 64th respectively.

So you would be incorrect if we're going to use facts.

And if you're still using efficiency, there's no argument to take them over Oklahoma.

The scoring defenses of the 4 teams Arky faced in their final 4 games were ranked 36th, 6th, 90th and 44th. (overall average of 44th)

The scoring defenses of the 4 teams OSU faced in their final 4 games were ranked 41st, 19th, 11th and 34th.
(overall average of 26th)

So if we're using facts, OSU faced defenses that gave up fewer points on average. The offense that woke up after MSU and proceeded to decimate michigan and Notre Dame was the one we should have had the whole year. I'm taking them, just as I undoubtedly would this coming season.

 

[ericd7633]

And if you're still using efficiency, there's no argument to take them over Oklahoma.

The scoring defenses of the 4 teams Arky faced in their final 4 games were ranked 36th, 6th, 90th and 44th. (overall average of 44th)

The scoring defenses of the 4 teams OSU faced in their final 4 games were ranked 41st, 19th, 11th and 34th.
(overall average of 26th)

So if we're using facts, OSU faced defenses that gave up fewer points on average. The offense that woke up after MSU and proceeded to decimate michigan and Notre Dame was the one we should have had the whole year. I'm taking them, just as I undoubtedly would this coming season.

I was using the last 4 games of the regular season. I'm not going to penalize Arkansas because they played a shitty defense in a bowl game. Totally out of their control. Which they scored 45 in btw.

Last 4 games of the regular season even going by scoring defenses the average opponent for Arkansas was 30.5. Arkansas averaged 40 ppg.

Last 4 games of the regular season even going by scoring defenses the average opponent for OSU was 32.5. Ohio State average 28 ppg.

Arkansas played better defenses down the stretch and scored 12 ppg more.

 

[Bamabino]

By season's end when OSU woke up and put in Barrett, they were superior. Had they done that from the start of the offseason program and let him be the QB the entire year, there's a good chance we're celebrating a 2nd straight NC.

 

[Across The Field]

I was using the last 4 games of the regular season. I'm not going to penalize Arkansas because they played a shitty defense in a bowl game. Totally out of their control. Which they scored 45 in btw.

Last 4 games of the regular season even going by scoring defenses the average opponent for Arkansas was 30.5. Arkansas averaged 40 ppg.

Last 4 games of the regular season even going by scoring defenses the average opponent for OSU was 32.5. Ohio State average 28 ppg.

Arkansas played better defenses down the stretch and scored 12 ppg more.

The very last two games of the year, last reg season and bowl, OSU averaged a TD more per game playing against two better overall defenses.

The first four games of the year, Arkansas averaged 26 ppg against teams that averaged 69th in scoring D.

The first four games of the year, Ohio State averaged 34.5 ppg against teams that averaged 71st in scoring D.

OSU played essentially the same level of defenses and averaged 8.5 PPG more, and that was with Cardale in there not knowing what the hell he was doing.

If Arky's offense was better, why did all their offensive players get drafted after almost all the ones from OSU?

 

[ericd7633]

The very last two games of the year, last reg season and bowl, OSU averaged a TD more per game playing against two better overall defenses.

The first four games of the year, Arkansas averaged 26 ppg against teams that averaged 69th in scoring D.

The first four games of the year, Ohio State averaged 34.5 ppg against teams that averaged 71st in scoring D.

OSU played essentially the same level of defenses and averaged 8.5 PPG more, and that was with Cardale in there not knowing what the hell he was doing.

If Arky's offense was better, why did all their offensive players get drafted after almost all the ones from OSU?

lol, now were down to the last 2 games because the last 4 of the regular season Arkansas was clearly better. Yes the last game of the season Ohio State was better offensively because they scored 44 points against a crappy defense and Arkansas scored 45 against an even crappier one.

And now we've gone back to cherry picking, by bringing up the beginning of the season. All I know is Arkansas scored more ppg, averaged more yards per game(against better competition) and was way more efficient on offense.

All their players got drafted later because they weren't as talented as Ohio State's. But Ohio State's QB's played like shit all year and Arkansas' QB had the best QBR in the country.

 

[Across The Field]

lol, now were down to the last 2 games because the last 4 of the regular season Arkansas was clearly better. Yes the last game of the season Ohio State was better offensively because they scored 44 points against a crappy defense and Arkansas scored 45 against an even crappier one.

And now we've gone back to cherry picking, by bringing up the beginning of the season. All I know is Arkansas scored more ppg, averaged more yards per game(against better competition) and was way more efficient on offense.

All their players got drafted later because they weren't as talented as Ohio State's. But Ohio State's QB's played like shit all year and Arkansas' QB had the best QBR in the country.

Gone back to cherry picking? Is that not what you're doing choosing only the last 4 games of the regular season? And NDs defense was significantly better than KSU's, give me a break.

OSU was more talented, no question there. Finally we agree.

 

[ericd7633]

Gone back to cherry picking? Is that not what you're doing choosing only the last 4 games of the regular season? And NDs defense was significantly better than KSU's, give me a break.

OSU was more talented, no question there. Finally we agree.

You said, "By season's end when OSU woke up and put in Barrett, they were superior. Had they done that from the start of the offseason program and let him be the QB the entire year, there's a good chance we're celebrating a 2nd straight NC."

You initially started the cherry picking by saying by season's end. I took that to mean towards the end of the year, so I gave you numbers for the last 4 games of the regular season(all November games). If you literally meant the bowl game, then yeah, Ohio State played better in their bowl game, you got me. I personally think that's dumb. And ND's defense was atrocious last year, just so you know. But better than Kansas State's.

Either way, like I said Arkansas was the better offense the entire year, in terms of scoring, yardage and efficiency. And the B1G has been bad offensively, as a whole, the last 5 years, or as I put it "recently".

 

[Cowboyinexile]

The Big 12 routinely has overinflated offenses due to the complete lack of defense in the conference. When these "explosive" offenses go up against tougher defenses OOC, they routinely perform nowhere near the level they perform in conference. There's also a reason that every single Big 12 QB that goes to the NFL flops horribly. You can't go from playing high school defenses to NFL defenses and expect to be successful.

I wouldn't say it's a lack of defense as much as a combination of scheme (try to limit giving up big plays and generate turnovers) and lack of depth needed to dominate the offenses in the league. Most of us have the starters to contain opposing offenses but you get a couple of injuries and all the sudden you are facing TCU and they are going after a Freshman corner who should be redshirting. It's something a more traditional defense going against a pro style offense could mask but when you have to defend the entire field it gets easier for a veteran qb to exploit.

As to your comment about Big 12 qb's flopping in the NFL, most qb's do. There are 32 starting jobs and most of them are spoken for. The open spots are generally with bad organizations that don't know how to groom talent. Some can overcome that. Some are good enough to be journeyman. Some bust out after their rookie contract. I don't think you can say a system or conference has much influence over that.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

I don't make threads about Alabama.

It's irrelevant whether you post threads or you hijack others.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

So you have depth issues.

I'd say we had some depth issues on the line last year. But the last couple of recruiting classes should have addressed that.

 

[jjc2009]

Well...yes. To some extent. I don't think there's much argument that Peppers will succeed at whatever position he ends up at. Problem is that he's all over the place so doesn't have the stats at one position that others do.

Let's just say it's a good thing he has a rapping career to fall back on.

 

[Across The Field]

I wouldn't say it's a lack of defense as much as a combination of scheme (try to limit giving up big plays and generate turnovers) and lack of depth needed to dominate the offenses in the league. Most of us have the starters to contain opposing offenses but you get a couple of injuries and all the sudden you are facing TCU and they are going after a Freshman corner who should be redshirting. It's something a more traditional defense going against a pro style offense could mask but when you have to defend the entire field it gets easier for a veteran qb to exploit.

As to your comment about Big 12 qb's flopping in the NFL, most qb's do. There are 32 starting jobs and most of them are spoken for. The open spots are generally with bad organizations that don't know how to groom talent. Some can overcome that. Some are good enough to be journeyman. Some bust out after their rookie contract. I don't think you can say a system or conference has much influence over that.

As far as the QBs in the NFL thing goes, it's too far at this point to not be a direct correlation. The Big 12 has never had a QB even win a Super Bowl. Look at the top QBs in the league for the last 10/15/20 years or so. Every other conference has at least a couple studs and then several other starters. The Big 12 has had no stars at all, and only a small handful even start (Bradford has been the one to start the most and he's been pretty bad).

 

[Across The Field]

You said, "By season's end when OSU woke up and put in Barrett, they were superior. Had they done that from the start of the offseason program and let him be the QB the entire year, there's a good chance we're celebrating a 2nd straight NC."

You initially started the cherry picking by saying by season's end. I took that to mean towards the end of the year, so I gave you numbers for the last 4 games of the regular season(all November games). If you literally meant the bowl game, then yeah, Ohio State played better in their bowl game, you got me. I personally think that's dumb. And ND's defense was atrocious last year, just so you know. But better than Kansas State's.

Either way, like I said Arkansas was the better offense the entire year, in terms of scoring, yardage and efficiency. And the B1G has been bad offensively, as a whole, the last 5 years, or as I put it "recently".

Then take their offense. OSU's was better. Another thing you don't consider - Arkansas had more points and more yards because they had to. How many games did OSU end up just milking the clock towards the end? That cuts down on your efficiency a lot when you're not trying to score. Meanwhile, Arkansas was giving up nearly twice as many ppg as Ohio State was, so of course they were spending a lot more time trying to score and put up numbers. Again, if that's the offense you want, enjoy going 8-4. I'm taking the elite talent of OSU any day, and I would win.

 

[ericd7633]

Then take their offense. OSU's was better. Another thing you don't consider - Arkansas had more points and more yards because they had to. How many games did OSU end up just milking the clock towards the end? That cuts down on your efficiency a lot when you're not trying to score. Meanwhile, Arkansas was giving up nearly twice as many ppg as Ohio State was, so of course they were spending a lot more time trying to score and put up numbers. Again, if that's the offense you want, enjoy going 8-4. I'm taking the elite talent of OSU any day, and I would win.

This is factored in when considering efficiency.

 

[Across The Field]

This is factored in when considering efficiency.

How can they know that? How can they know when OSU was playing conservatively to run down clock or when a drive just genuinely stalled? This also played a big part in why Arkansas averaged more points and yards.

Again, as I said, I'll take the supremely talented OSU offense with the Heisman contender at QB and RB and stud WRs any day. If you truly believe Urban Meyer would get outgunned by Bret Bielema, then maybe you're not quite as smart as you think.

 

[Across The Field]

This is factored in when considering efficiency.

So on the ESPN site, it says the stats are "down-weighted for "garbage time" (based on win probability)." So this means they automatically start not counting drives when it's probable OSU would win? That's really not fair, as it's obvious when a team is playing comeback, their drives tend to cover more ground and they tend to score more frequently, which happened often to Arkansas last year and hardly at all to OSU.

 

[ericd7633]

How can they know that? How can they know when OSU was playing conservatively to run down clock or when a drive just genuinely stalled? This also played a big part in why Arkansas averaged more points and yards.

Again, as I said, I'll take the supremely talented OSU offense with the Heisman contender at QB and RB and stud WRs any day. If you truly believe Urban Meyer would get outgunned by Bret Bielema, then maybe you're not quite as smart as you think.

It's based on win probability %.

And I obviously don't think Arkansas would beat Ohio State. Not even close. Arkansas had a shitty defense and shitty special teams units. My guess is Ohio State would win something like 38-24. Ohio State had a great defense and special teams unit.