Credit for Team Wins

[DirtDirtDirt]

Nothing else going on

The Red Sox are winning 3-0

And Big papi's kids sang the national anthem, in spite of the fact they dont speak English

 

[Broncos6482]

Is Kubiak nothing special, though? 2 SBs as OC, 1 as HC. A lot of coaches don't have that resume. And of course it takes talent. How many coaches take mediocre teams to the Super Bowl? Would people consider Belichick a genius if he didn't have Brady? Look at how Jim Caldwell has done w/o Peyton.

A coach is only as good as the roster provided. Look at the revolving door in Cleveland. Have all those coaches they've had within the past few years truly all been terrible coaches, or is the Browns front office just terrible at assembling a roster a coach could win with?

I'd say it's easier to discern whether a coach is good based on how they do with a good roster rather than how they do with a bad roster. On a side note, I think John Fox deserves a ton of credit for getting to a SB with Jake Delhomme and making the playoffs with Tebow.

Yes, I don't think Kubiak is anything special as a coach. The two Super Bowls he won as an offensive coordinator he didn't call the plays, and the Super Bowl he won as a head coach the team mostly won on defense, while Kubiak is the offensive guy.

Now to his credit, Kubiak basically left Wade alone to run the defense, and he very delicately managed what could have been a controversial quarterback situation. I'd say the way he handled the qb's might have been the best coaching job he did all year, because that could have easily split the team apart. But he handled it well and kept the team together.

Kubiak's not a bad coach, and he's probably underrated, but he's not top 5 or anything like that.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

The Red Sox are winning 3-0

And Big papi's kids sang the national anthem, in spite of the fact they dont speak English

I'm watching. Burning leave. Going to be a good year for the Sox if the starting pitching can hold their own? Big "if" after Price.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Yes, I don't think Kubiak is anything special as a coach. The two Super Bowls he won as an offensive coordinator he didn't call the plays, and the Super Bowl he won as a head coach the team mostly won on defense, while Kubiak is the offensive guy.

Now to his credit, Kubiak basically left Wade alone to run the defense, and he very delicately managed what could have been a controversial quarterback situation. I'd say the way he handled the qb's might have been the best coaching job he did all year, because that could have easily split the team apart. But he handled it well and kept the team together.

Kubiak's not a bad coach, and he's probably underrated, but he's not top 5 or anything like that.

I'd sumbit this Denver team isn't a top 5 SB team either.

 

[Broncos6482]

I'd sumbit this Denver team isn't a top 5 SB team either.

I mean top 5 current head coaches.

I'd agree with you that this Denver Super Bowl winner isn't a top 5 Super Bowl team (they weren't balanced enough despite the defense being outstanding), but they were the best team in the NFL this year so that's all that matters to me.

 

[megalodon30]

I'd sumbit this Denver team isn't a top 5 SB team either.

Not offensively. But defensively, hard to argue otherwise. Top 3 all-time SB defense.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

I mean top 5 current head coaches.

I'd agree with you that this Denver Super Bowl winner isn't a top 5 Super Bowl team (they weren't balanced enough despite the defense being outstanding), but they were the best team in the NFL this year so that's all that matters to me.

Well then I guess by that reasoning it makes Kubiac the best coach in the NFL this past year as well?

 

[flyerhawk]

If we were to try to quantify the impact of the various pieces of the game we could go with an approach like this.

Let's assume that there are 50 relevant players. Each player starts with a 2% impact on the performance of the team.

Now obviously not all players have an equal impact on the outcome of a game. A player that plays every snap is going to have far more impact than a guy that plays 10% of the snaps. So maybe we shift the value of starters to take 50% of the back ups value. So the CB1 and CB2 would be 4% each compared to the 1% of their backups.

Of course we also then have the position weightings. QB needs to get far more than any other position. And then further down maybe pass rushing DE or CB1 get higher valuations.

But the point here is that the entire team wins games. But that doesn't mean that the quality of the team is based equally on all aspects. A great QB has far greater impact on the outcome of a game than a great right guard.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

If we were to try to quantify the impact of the various pieces of the game we could go with an approach like this.

Let's assume that there are 50 relevant players. Each player starts with a 2% impact on the performance of the team.

Now obviously not all players have an equal impact on the outcome of a game. A player that plays every snap is going to have far more impact than a guy that plays 10% of the snaps. So maybe we shift the value of starters to take 50% of the back ups value. So the CB1 and CB2 would be 4% each compared to the 1% of their backups.

Of course we also then have the position weightings. QB needs to get far more than any other position. And then further down maybe pass rushing DE or CB1 get higher valuations.

But the point here is that the entire team wins games. But that doesn't mean that the quality of the team is based equally on all aspects. A great QB has far greater impact on the outcome of a game than a great right guard.

You might be onto something here? But I could see this getting into the cyberstat world. For example great kickers add value. Difficult to measure.

 

[Broncos6482]

Well then I guess by that reasoning it makes Kubiac the best coach in the NFL this past year as well?

Nope. Because all rosters are not created equal.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Nope. Because all rosters are not created equal.

Are all coaches?

 

[Broncos6482]

Are all coaches?

Of course not. But my point was that just because the Broncos won the Super Bowl this past year, that doesn't make Kubiak the best coach.

 

[flyerhawk]

You might be onto something here? But I could see this getting into the cyberstat world. For example great kickers add value. Difficult to measure.

Well definitely a state geek exercise.

And what you are talking about is the variance when it comes to each individual position, which is another factor.

How much can a poor kicker versus a great kicker impact the performance of a team? That gets really difficult to measure.

 

[dkmightyhammer]

You might be onto something here? But I could see this getting into the cyberstat world. For example great kickers add value. Difficult to measure.

There is no discounting the "team" aspect when looking at wins. The Pats beat us in the SB two years ago with probably one of the goat QB's and yet he was only a part of the reason they won. No matter what Brady did in that 4th quarter it all came down to a CB that nobody outside of Boston really knew much about before he made the game winning interception. Point being that Butler might only garner a 3 or 4% rating on you and Flyerhawk's rating system but on that day his impact was about 90% just because of one play.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

There is no discounting the "team" aspect when looking at wins. The Pats beat us in the SB two years ago with probably one of the goat QB's and yet he was only a part of the reason they won. No matter what Brady did in that 4th quarter it all came down to a CB that nobody outside of Boston really knew much about before he made the game winning interception. Point being that Butler might only garner a 3 or 4% rating on you and Flyerhawk's rating system but on that day his impact was about 90% just because of one play.

To that point, Belichick should have used a TO with the clocking ticking down on that play.....Butlers' INT save Bill from a lotta second guessing for not saving his offense some time

Just speaking to how players can make coaches look smarter than they really are quite often

 

[dkmightyhammer]

To that point, Belichick should have used a TO with the clocking ticking down on that play.....Butlers' INT save Bill from a lotta second guessing for not saving his offense some time

Just speaking to how players can make coaches look smarter than they really are quite often

Egg Zachery

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Of course not. But my point was that just because the Broncos won the Super Bowl this past year, that doesn't make Kubiak the best coach.

Why not? You said it made them the best team?

 

[NWPATSFAN]

The Red Sox are winning 3-0

And Big papi's kids sang the national anthem, in spite of the fact they dont speak English

Yikes Price!

 

[NWPATSFAN]

To that point, Belichick should have used a TO with the clocking ticking down on that play.....Butlers' INT save Bill from a lotta second guessing for not saving his offense some time

Just speaking to how players can make coaches look smarter than they really are quite often

I certainly believe BB can over analyze some of his decisions. In that particular case he said something on the Seahawks sideline didn't look quite right. They looked confused and he didn't want to give them time to regroup (paraphrashing).

 

[Broncos6482]

Why not? You said it made them the best team?

Just because they won the Super Bowl last year, that doesn't mean every single aspect of the team was the best in the NFL.

By your logic, you could ask if Denver had the best qb in the NFL last year because they won the Super Bowl. Of course we all know that's ridiculous.

As a whole, Denver had the best team. That doesn't mean all of the individual parts were the best, as is the case with Kubiak.