Credit for Team Wins

[NWPATSFAN]

Who gets/should get credit for team wins? You can select only one. It's not designed to be an easy answer. Select and discuss.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Team. I don't think it gets any more simple? No matter how much we want to idolize certain players, they likely don't excel unless they have a team around them that compliment their skill set.

 

[dkmightyhammer]

I think the obvious answer for wins is the team. But while a team is needed to win I think it's easier to point to who was responsible in losses as opposed to wins. For example, we watched Tom Coughlin blow 3 wins early in the season due to horrible clock management and poor use of timeouts. Those are games the giants were likely going to win but the coach screwed up. Or like when Walsh missed a chip shot FG in the playoffs to let Seattle off the hook in a game Seattle 9 out of 10 times loses in that scenario. It's just easier to find a scapegoat as opposed to one single player who took over and won a game.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

I think the obvious answer for wins is the team. But while a team is needed to win I think it's easier to point to who was responsible in losses as opposed to wins. For example, we watched Tom Coughlin blow 3 wins early in the season due to horrible clock management and poor use of timeouts. Those are games the giants were likely going to win but the coach screwed up. Or like when Walsh missed a chip shot FG in the playoffs to let Seattle off the hook in a game Seattle 9 out of 10 times loses in that scenario. It's just easier to find a scapegoat as opposed to one single player who took over and won a game.

Agreed it's easy to blame the scapegoat. But, I would argue the game shouldn't come down to just one "bad" play or one "bad" call? It's unfortunate if it is the last play of the game. Again the team "shouldn't" have let it get to that?
It's a pretty simplistic approach I know. But I for one am getting tired of the cybermetric world. When a guy farts on Thursday morning before a Thursday night game they are likely to win 51% of the time. We can over analyze everything.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

QB more than any of the other choices


To win in this league "in spite" of the QB takes soooo many things going right, takes a perfect construction of a roster. Peyton's Broncos, Dilfers Ravens, those are extreme exceptions that come along once every generation, if that

But when you have a franchise QB, it can cover and overcome a very flawed roster, and still be a threat to win big

 

[Broncos6482]

Who gets/should get credit for team wins? You can select only one. It's not designed to be an easy answer. Select and discuss.

But it is an easy answer. Teams win games. A great qb can overcome a lot of flaws on a team, as can a coach, but even the best qb in the game will lose if his defense gives up points every drive.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

But it is an easy answer. Teams win games. A great qb can overcome a lot of flaws on a team, as can a coach, but even the best qb in the game will lose if his defense gives up points every drive.

Playing devil advocate here. But doesn't the coach have the responsibility of putting the game plan together? Setting the teams discipline? Possibly selecting draft picks? Play calls in many cases especially to go or not go for it in certain situations?

Some may argue the coach is more responsible?

 

[Rod Smart]

Chris Hoke is 17-1 as a starter, with two Superbowl rings


Best defensive lineman ever!!!

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Playing devil advocate here. But doesn't the coach have the responsibility of putting the game plan together? Setting the teams discipline? Possibly selecting draft picks? Play calls in many cases especially to go or not go for it in certain situations?

Some may argue the coach is more responsible?

Id buy that more if there were tons of examples of Head Coaches winning SB's without a talented roster

Coaches can win or lose you games, but at the end of the day, its the players that will make you look like a genius or an idiot

 

[NWPATSFAN]

Id buy that more if there were tons of examples of Head Coaches winning SB's without a talented roster

Coaches can win or lose you games, but at the end of the day, its the players that will make you look like a genius or an idiot

Every NFL team has talent. Were the Giants a "talented" team when they beat the Pats, Denver last year, Seattle in 13? Great defenses for sure. But someone had to coach the offense on how not to lose the game.

 

[megalodon30]

QB. It's no coincidence that the teams with all-pro/HOF QBs are the ones that are consistently considered SB contenders while the teams with mediocre QBs are consistently in the "need to draft a QB" conversation.

 

[Broncos6482]

Playing devil advocate here. But doesn't the coach have the responsibility of putting the game plan together? Setting the teams discipline? Possibly selecting draft picks? Play calls in many cases especially to go or not go for it in certain situations?

Some may argue the coach is more responsible?

In the NFL talent rules all. An average coach can win it all with a talented team. This year's Denver's team is a prime example. I don't think Kubiak is anything special as a coach, yet the Broncos are Super Bowl champs because Elway put together a defensive roster to rival anyone in the NFL.

Or how about the last Cowboys' team to win a Super Bowl? Did they win it all because Barry Switzer is a great coach, or because they had the most talented roster in the NFL?

 

[Hank Kingsley]

The coach makes the team click.

A great team can over come a bum coach (Barry Switzer) but a great coach can make a not so great team win more than they should.

 

[NWPATSFAN]

In the NFL talent rules all. An average coach can win it all with a talented team. This year's Denver's team is a prime example. I don't think Kubiak is anything special as a coach, yet the Broncos are Super Bowl champs because Elway put together a defensive roster to rival anyone in the NFL.

Or how about the last Cowboys' team to win a Super Bowl? Did they win it all because Barry Switzer is a great coach, or because they had the most talented roster in the NFL?

Let me get out my VCR so I can watch that last Cowboy SB. It was too long ago, I forget.

 

[tducey]

Definitely the team.

 

[megalodon30]

In the NFL talent rules all. An average coach can win it all with a talented team. This year's Denver's team is a prime example. I don't think Kubiak is anything special as a coach, yet the Broncos are Super Bowl champs because Elway put together a defensive roster to rival anyone in the NFL.

Or how about the last Cowboys' team to win a Super Bowl? Did they win it all because Barry Switzer is a great coach, or because they had the most talented roster in the NFL?

Is Kubiak nothing special, though? 2 SBs as OC, 1 as HC. A lot of coaches don't have that resume. And of course it takes talent. How many coaches take mediocre teams to the Super Bowl? Would people consider Belichick a genius if he didn't have Brady? Look at how Jim Caldwell has done w/o Peyton.

A coach is only as good as the roster provided. Look at the revolving door in Cleveland. Have all those coaches they've had within the past few years truly all been terrible coaches, or is the Browns front office just terrible at assembling a roster a coach could win with?

I'd say it's easier to discern whether a coach is good based on how they do with a good roster rather than how they do with a bad roster. On a side note, I think John Fox deserves a ton of credit for getting to a SB with Jake Delhomme and making the playoffs with Tebow.

 

[packerzrule]

why is this even a question??

 

[NWPATSFAN]

why is this even a question??

Nothing else going on

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

why is this even a question??

Maybe you should start a poll?

 

[NWPATSFAN]

why is this even a question??

It seems to be drawing some good discussion. Care to participate?