Colts to Boot Pagano

[ATL96Steeler]

Grigson should have been fired the minute he followed up the Luck pick with two TE picks. And then fired again after trading a 1st rounder for already failed RB Trent Richardson. Nothing compares with those. A clear declaration that he has no idea what he was doing.

Agree 100%.

I get it, he was trying to mimic the Patriots, but you don't go b-t-b TEs in the draft that high...stupid. Even more stupid was giving up a 1st rd pick for a RB that had should never have even been a 1st round pick.

 

[cdumler7]

Agree 100%.

I get it, he was trying to mimic the Patriots, but you don't go b-t-b TEs in the draft that high...stupid. Even more stupid was giving up a 1st rd pick for a RB that had should never have even been a 1st round pick.

I would fault him more for the 1st round pick for a bad RB than the b-t-b TE's. Both of those TE's have actually turned into decent players this year. Both are starters in the NFL and Fleener one could argue is a top-10 receiving TE in the league right now. So while I don't agree with him taking TE's both right in a row so high in the draft at least both players have some talent.

I would say after the Richardson trade the letting of Jerry Hughes was his next biggest mistake. The guy has turned into a very good pass rusher. After that decision would at least for me be ignoring the OL and investing millions upon millions in skill position players that were over the hill. So Luck was getting killed before he could ever get it to those players.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I would fault him more for the 1st round pick for a bad RB than the b-t-b TE's. Both of those TE's have actually turned into decent players this year. Both are starters in the NFL and Fleener one could argue is a top-10 receiving TE in the league right now. So while I don't agree with him taking TE's both right in a row so high in the draft at least both players have some talent.

I would say after the Richardson trade the letting of Jerry Hughes was his next biggest mistake. The guy has turned into a very good pass rusher. After that decision would at least for me be ignoring the OL and investing millions upon millions in skill position players that were over the hill. So Luck was getting killed before he could ever get it to those players.

Agree to the bold...that pick could have been S. Deone Buchannon, or WR Kelvin Benjami, CB Bradley Roby, etc.

The TEs...imo have been pretty average and I'm pretty sure Fleener is with the Saints now where he was kind of struggling until the ATL game....TRich trade, Hughes and the OL all factor in this team being many positions away from being playoff caliber again with the #1 overall draft pick playing QB.

 

[cdumler7]

Agree to the bold...that pick could have been S. Deone Buchannon, or WR Kelvin Benjami, CB Bradley Roby, etc.

The TEs...imo have been pretty average and I'm pretty sure Fleener is with the Saints now where he was kind of struggling until the ATL game....TRich trade, Hughes and the OL all factor in this team being many positions away from being playoff caliber again with the #1 overall draft pick playing QB.

I'm not saying the TE's were the best decision. I'm more saying I would move that bad decision down the list compared to some of these others like the Richardson trade, cutting Hughes, not devoting resources to the OL, continuing to not really build the defense up like you should. I mean they are making the exact same mistakes that they did with Manning. They devote all their resources to the skill positions and just depend on your star QB to make up for the deficiencies throughout the rest of the roster. With Manning it sort of worked because he had a very quick attacking system that covered up a lot of the OL issues. The offense they are running with Luck though is set up to get the kid seriously hurt. Like I said they are ruining the career of a very talented player and the day he signed his contract I just shook my head in disbelief that this kid continues to trust this organization to make good decisions when they haven't shown that one bit.

 

[eaglesnut]

I would fault him more for the 1st round pick for a bad RB than the b-t-b TE's. Both of those TE's have actually turned into decent players this year. Both are starters in the NFL and Fleener one could argue is a top-10 receiving TE in the league right now. So while I don't agree with him taking TE's both right in a row so high in the draft at least both players have some talent.

I would say after the Richardson trade the letting of Jerry Hughes was his next biggest mistake. The guy has turned into a very good pass rusher. After that decision would at least for me be ignoring the OL and investing millions upon millions in skill position players that were over the hill. So Luck was getting killed before he could ever get it to those players.

TEs are luxuries when you are building a team from scratch. The Patriots already had a ton of pieces on both sides of the ball. Fleener sucks and Allen is average. He had this dream offense in his fantasies with TEs working the middle and speedsters out side and he completely ignored the fact that no offense works without an Oline and every offense works with an Oline.

 

[eaglesnut]

I'm not saying the TE's were the best decision. I'm more saying I would move that bad decision down the list compared to some of these others like the Richardson trade, cutting Hughes, not devoting resources to the OL, continuing to not really build the defense up like you should. I mean they are making the exact same mistakes that they did with Manning. They devote all their resources to the skill positions and just depend on your star QB to make up for the deficiencies throughout the rest of the roster. With Manning it sort of worked because he had a very quick attacking system that covered up a lot of the OL issues. The offense they are running with Luck though is set up to get the kid seriously hurt. Like I said they are ruining the career of a very talented player and the day he signed his contract I just shook my head in disbelief that this kid continues to trust this organization to make good decisions when they haven't shown that one bit.

The TE picks show his ass backwards ways. His Richardson trade just shows he wanted a power run game. Both show he's a mental midget at putting an offense together. Build the Oline and everything else always works out with a top QB.

 

[cdumler7]

TEs are luxuries when you are building a team from scratch. The Patriots already had a ton of pieces on both sides of the ball. Fleener sucks and Allen is average. He had this dream offense in his fantasies with TEs working the middle and speedsters out side and he completely ignored the fact that no offense works without an Oline and every offense works with an Oline.

Again I'm not saying it wasn't a mistake. On the list of mistakes though that the Colts have made since drafting Luck I would put it lower on the list than some. Fleener and Allen are at least starters in this league. Not high quality starters but at least starters. Compare that to letting Hughes walk out the door and him now becoming a star at his position when his position is one of weakness for the Colts. Or a 1st round pick for a RB that isn't even on a roster in the NFL right now. Or compare that to spending big time money to bring in over the hill veterans at the skill positions when that money could have easily gone to the OL and I would bet the offense would have been much more successful last year. Compare that to again bringing in aging veterans to try and fill in the holes on the defense and those players being some of the worst in the league right now. So when I look at all those compared to drafting 2 TE's again I just put it lower on the list. I still view it as a mistake just not the Colts biggest ones.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I'm not saying the TE's were the best decision. I'm more saying I would move that bad decision down the list compared to some of these others like the Richardson trade, cutting Hughes, not devoting resources to the OL, continuing to not really build the defense up like you should. I mean they are making the exact same mistakes that they did with Manning. They devote all their resources to the skill positions and just depend on your star QB to make up for the deficiencies throughout the rest of the roster. With Manning it sort of worked because he had a very quick attacking system that covered up a lot of the OL issues. The offense they are running with Luck though is set up to get the kid seriously hurt. Like I said they are ruining the career of a very talented player and the day he signed his contract I just shook my head in disbelief that this kid continues to trust this organization to make good decisions when they haven't shown that one bit.

In terms of the blunders on personnel...we're on the same page...I agree with your ranking, just pointing out that neither TE has been stellar and with one now playing on another team now it looks even worse.

In the Manning era with Dungy, they invested a lot of 1st rd pick on OFC so you're right, but he was still able to build a pretty good DEF...lead by two very good edge rushers and a good front 7 overall actually...the biggest problem for the Manning prime years in IND imo was NE.

It starts at the top imo...Irsay. But when you look at their cap disbursement...you can see why they're struggling. It's stupid to invest $100 mil into a QB and not invest to protect him...Contanzo is simply not earning his money. Two guys well past their prime (Mathis and Gore) taking up $9 mil...Dewayne Allen is a $8.9 mil cap hit?

Pagano will probably take the hit for this, but it's pretty clear, the roster is not playoff caliber.

 

[cdumler7]

In terms of the blunders on personnel...we're on the same page...I agree with your ranking, just pointing out that neither TE has been stellar and with one now playing on another team now it looks even worse.

In the Manning era with Dungy, they invested a lot of 1st rd pick on OFC so you're right, but he was still able to build a pretty good DEF...lead by two very good edge rushers and a good front 7 overall actually...the biggest problem for the Manning prime years in IND imo was NE.

It starts at the top imo...Irsay. But when you look at their cap disbursement...you can see why they're struggling. It's stupid to invest $100 mil into a QB and not invest to protect him...Contanzo is simply not earning his money. Two guys well past their prime (Mathis and Gore) taking up $9 mil...Dewayne Allen is a $8.9 mil cap hit?

Pagano will probably take the hit for this, but it's pretty clear, the roster is not playoff caliber.

Agree with all of this. I didn't mean to make it sound like Manning didn't have some talent around him. I just see them investing in areas like big time money going to the WR/TE/Slot WR when it would be much smarter to invest in the OL. Now with Manning it made just a bit more sense because his quick release and ability to diagnose defenses covered up some of the issues on the OL. With Luck though they either need to change up the scheme or realize he just isn't quite that same player that Manning was.

And yes NE just seemed to have his number. They knew to take away those quick passing lanes and jam the receivers to throw off the timing. They also dared the Colts to run the football knowing Manning would want control to just go out and throw the football which would play right into what they wanted. They also knew the Colts were not designed to play from behind well as the greatest strength on defense was the pass rush but they were small against the run so they would pound the football down the field.

And I completely agree that Pagano will be the fall guy even though I think he is maybe the least person to blame out of Grigson, Irsay, and Pagano.

 

[Southieinnc]

Grigson throws Luck under the bus......

Ryan Grigson Says Andrew Luck's Contract Has Impacted Colts Defense

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Grigson throws Luck under the bus......

Ryan Grigson Says Andrew Luck's Contract Has Impacted Colts Defense

He may be the worse GM still with a job.

 

[Southieinnc]

He may be the worse GM still with a job.

Worst Gm - working for the worst owner. This is why I expect them to fire Pagano.
Blaming Pagano is like blaming @tedman2012 .....