Chipper Jones, Jim Thome, Vlad Guerrero and Trevor Hoffman inducted into the HOF

[soxfan1468927]

False equivalency.

If you didn't get what I was saying: I understand that a reliever is a different value position than a good 3rd baseman. But when you ask a random baseball person to name the top relievers all-time, Hoffman's name is going to be in the first few mentioned. If you ask those same people to rattle off the top 3rd basemen all-time, are they going to rank Chipper in their top few?

I won't.

Well I don't care what "random people" think of a baseball player. Seems silly to argue about non-existent people's opinions.

But to that, you really don't think that Chipper Jones name would come up as a top 3rd basemen of all time?

 

[soxfan1468927]

Ninja'd...pretty much what my point was.


And that's cool, agree to disagree. We're just spouting off opinions in here, after all.

Okay. I just don't see the point then in regards to the HOF.

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

Well I don't care what "random people" think of a baseball player.

Then you must really hate the Hall Of Fame selection process.

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

Okay. I just don't see the point then in regards to the HOF.

Because if it's only going to be based on statistics, then we ought to stop having dumbass random sportswriters vote on who is worthy, and who is not. As it stands, the process now is based almost entirely off of opinions, especially in regards to alleged steroid abusers.

"Griffey was not a unanimous HOF selection based on the logic that Babe Ruth was not a unanimous selection."
--Geniuses

 

[StanMarsh51]

False equivalency.

If you didn't get what I was saying: I understand that a reliever is a different value position than a good 3rd baseman. But when you ask a random baseball person to name the top relievers all-time, Hoffman's name is going to be in the first few mentioned. If you ask those same people to rattle off the top 3rd basemen all-time, are they going to rank Chipper in their top few?

I won't.

So you really don't think Chipper's in the top 4-5 3B of all time? Who would you rank above him?

 

[soxfan1468927]

Then you must really hate the Hall Of Fame selection process.

I don't.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Because if it's only going to be based on statistics, then we ought to stop having dumbass random sportswriters vote on who is worthy, and who is not. As it stands, the process now is based almost entirely off of opinions, especially in regards to alleged steroid abusers.

"Griffey was not a unanimous HOF selection based on the logic that Babe Ruth was not a unanimous selection."
--Geniuses

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. At all.

 

[Rock Strongo]

Oh, @Rock Strongo!

soxfan says the greatest DH ever isn't getting into the HOF until his last year of eligibility! What does that say about that juiced up, bedazzled freak's chances of being a first ballot HOFer?

easy. he'll get in first ballot.

ortiz was a bigger personality, and was a much bigger winner, than that guy people call the greatest DH of all time. and he started late around 26/27 before he took off.

 

[Chewbaccer]

False equivalency.

If you didn't get what I was saying: I understand that a reliever is a different value position than a good 3rd baseman. But when you ask a random baseball person to name the top relievers all-time, Hoffman's name is going to be in the first few mentioned. If you ask those same people to rattle off the top 3rd basemen all-time, are they going to rank Chipper in their top few?

I won't.

What 3B would you rank ahead of Chipper.

Mike Schmidt for sure.

George Brett and Eddie Mathews have arguments, I'm extremely biased and would take Chipper over both, but they have strong cases.

That's it at 3B.

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

What 3B would you rank ahead of Chipper.

Lots of em...Wade Boggs, Brooks Robinson, John McGraw, Alex Rodriguez as a Yankee, that Schmidt guy, Graig Nettles, Miguel Cabrera, George Brett

 

[StanMarsh51]

Lots of em...Wade Boggs, Brooks Robinson, John McGraw, Alex Rodriguez as a Yankee, that Schmidt guy, Graig Nettles, Miguel Cabrera, George Brett

Regarding A-Rod, he hit .283 with 351 HR and a .900 OPS as a 3B. Chipper as a 3B hit .305 with 389 HR and a .936 OPS, so I wouldn't say A-Rod was better.

John McGraw who played just 1100 career games and had only 5 seasons of 100+ games?

As for Brooks Robinson, Chipper is levels above him offensively. Robinson is levels ahead of Chipper defensively, but we all know offense is worth more than defense, so Robinson's defense isn't enough to overcompensate him being significantly inferior offensively.

Nettles is a similar case to Chipper...much better defensively than Chipper, but much worse offensively.

Miguel Cabrera doesn't even have 700 career games at 3B.




A lot of reaching with your picks...you could make cases with Schmidt, Boggs, Eddie Matthews, and maybe Adrian Beltre, but probably no one else.

 

[obxyankeefan]

Regarding A-Rod, he hit .283 with 351 HR and a .900 OPS as a 3B. Chipper as a 3B hit .305 with 389 HR and a .936 OPS, so I wouldn't say A-Rod was better.

John McGraw who played just 1100 career games and had only 5 seasons of 100+ games?

As for Brooks Robinson, Chipper is levels above him offensively. Robinson is levels ahead of Chipper defensively, but we all know offense is worth more than defense, so Robinson's defense isn't enough to overcompensate him being significantly inferior offensively.

Nettles is a similar case to Chipper...much better defensively than Chipper, but much worse offensively.

Miguel Cabrera doesn't even have 700 career games at 3B.




A lot of reaching with your picks...you could make cases with Schmidt, Boggs, Eddie Matthews, and maybe Adrian Beltre, but probably no one else.

I could see someone making a case for Brett.

Personally I would put Chipper 5th with my list going Schmidt, Mathews, Boggs, Beltre and Jones.

 

[obxyankeefan]

Rivera
Fingers
Sutter
Eckersley
Gossage
Lyle

Just off the top of my head as far as relievers better than Hoffman. The one thing that Hoffman had that most relievers do not have is longevity.

 

[Chewbaccer]

Lots of em...Wade Boggs, Brooks Robinson, John McGraw, Alex Rodriguez as a Yankee, that Schmidt guy, Graig Nettles, Miguel Cabrera, George Brett

You're reaching there, hoss.

Big time.

 

[broncosmitty]

Rivera
Fingers
Sutter
Eckersley
Gossage
Lyle

Just off the top of my head as far as relievers better than Hoffman. The one thing that Hoffman had that most relievers do not have is longevity.

Hiller, Wilhelm, Rommel...

 

[broncosmitty]

Rivera
Fingers
Sutter
Eckersley
Gossage
Lyle

Just off the top of my head as far as relievers better than Hoffman. The one thing that Hoffman had that most relievers do not have is longevity.

Joe Nathan too.

 

[obxyankeefan]

Hiller, Wilhelm, Rommel...

Hiller was a washed up bum.

Joe Nathan too.

He was one of two I was thinking about adding to the list, but decided not too. Lee Smith was the other.

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. At all.

Some people want to elect members to the hall based on pure stats, but we don't do it that way. A bunch of writers vote for their favorite players and don't vote for guys that were rude to them once back in St. Louis in 1997.

Its all opinions and eye tests.

You all seem to think I'm supposed to see Chipper exactly the same way everyone else does, and that's just not how the world works, sorry.

 

[Used 2 B Hu]

You're reaching there, hoss.

Big time.

Your hero is an asshole.

Sorry this is how you find out

 

[Voltaire26]

yeah, I'm not very high on relievers being in the HOF. Hoffman was a great one, but he had 60+ innings in less than half of his seasons. I think what seperates Mo from Hoffman and any other reliever is that not only are his career stats superior (and he has like 200 more innings), but he also has a sub-1 ERA in 141 postseason innings. I don't think Hoffman was superior to Wagner and at least as far as peaks go, Foulke was arguably better IMO.

As a Tiger fan, let me tell you how important relievers are: