Chip Kelly gets it.

[Thruthefog]

And yes, I realize I'm going to catch some shit for my comments, but I donreally givafuck. I find all these definitive "I know better than the professionals" cocky-macho statements to be annoying as fuck. Discussing football (which will be the excuse given) is one thing, but give these dudes some credit for fuckssake; none of us would do any better at all.

As a rebuttal, I present to you......Matt Millen.

 

[tpaulus_2]

LOL. Over rated? ok

"The scheme" same as Moronelli trying to get all those tiny LB's and DL for his "tampa 2"?

You build your defense and offenses around your best players. Not getting average players who fit your scheme that everyone is going to study and eventually learn how to defend.

Kelley is said to prefer larger, north-south style RBs to run his offense the way he designed it. Good coaches adapt and utilize the talent they have, which he did the last two years with McCoy. But after having a chance to see what the guy has, I think Kelley realized that Shady had more value to other teams than to him, so he sold high while the proverbial gettin' was good.

If he thought a different style of RB was a better fit for what he wanted to do, and that he could get a defensive center-piece for the foreseeable future, then trading him made/makes perfect sense.

And yes "LOL. Over rated?" McCoy is a good RB, right around top-5 in the league right now, but he's not a generational talent like Peterson or Lynch, though a handful of you would seem to disagree. I think he's just a plain, good RB, who, ten years from now, won't be mentioned as a great RB like the Peterson, McCoy, Tomlinson, maybe Gore, types will. Basically I don't think he's potentially a future Hall of Fame candidate, whereas there's 3 or 4 RBs in the league right now who will be considered for the hall. That's why I feel like he's over-rated, anyhow.

 

[tpaulus_2]

As a rebuttal, I present to you......Matt Millen.

Lol. Millen was the singular worst GM ever, though. A rusty hubcap someone found in a ditch would have been a better GM than him...

 

[Rollingthndr]

Kelley is said to prefer larger, north-south style RBs to run his offense the way he designed it. Good coaches adapt and utilize the talent they have, which he did the last two years with McCoy. But after having a chance to see what the guy has, I think Kelley realized that Shady had more value to other teams than to him, so he sold high while the proverbial gettin' was good.

If he thought a different style of RB was a better fit for what he wanted to do, and that he could get a defensive center-piece for the foreseeable future, then trading him made/makes perfect sense.

And yes "LOL. Over rated?" McCoy is a good RB, right around top-5 in the league right now, but he's not a generational talent like Peterson or Lynch, though a handful of you would seem to disagree. I think he's just a plain, good RB, who, ten years from now, won't be mentioned as a great RB like the Peterson, McCoy, Tomlinson, maybe Gore, types will. Basically I don't think he's potentially a future Hall of Fame candidate, whereas there's 3 or 4 RBs in the league right now who will be considered for the hall. That's why I feel like he's over-rated, anyhow.

I don't understand how he could "not fit"? The dude lead the league in rushing the first year Kelly was in town.

The second year. They lose 4/5ths of their O-line and the guy still averages 4.3 ypc.

To me, Kelly is an egocentric coach who doesn't want to be out shined by any of his players. Dude will be back to coaching college soon and getting paid millions to do it once NFL coaches figure out how to defend his offense. That is after he runs the cupboard dry of talent.

Losing Desean Jackson, Maclin, Foles, McCoy. Those are all high quality players.

 

[Thruthefog]

Lol. Millen was the singular worst GM ever, though. A rusty hubcap someone found in a ditch would have been a better GM than him...

I understand. But wouldn't the Lions' franchise have been better served by looking for something better than the rusty hub cap they replaced him with?

And I've made a decision. From now on, when I'm referring to Mayhew, I'm just going to call him Rusty.

 

[tpaulus_2]

I don't understand how he could "not fit"? The dude lead the league in rushing the first year Kelly was in town.

The second year. They lose 4/5ths of their O-line and the guy still averages 4.3 ypc.

To me, Kelly is an egocentric coach who doesn't want to be out shined by any of his players. Dude will be back to coaching college soon and getting paid millions to do it once NFL coaches figure out how to defend his offense. That is after he runs the cupboard dry of talent.

Losing Desean Jackson, Maclin, Foles, McCoy. Those are all high quality players.

Difference is he's a guy getting paid a shit-ton to run a team because of his credentials. You're a dude with internet access. Chip Kelley's football knowledge, understanding, experience, and intuition blows yours (or mine, or anyone else's on here) out of the water and always will.

These are the kind of comments I referenced earlier that I think are pretty absurd. Do people ever stop to consider why on Earth they think their own personal opinion would trump that of industry insiders who have millions of dollars on the line with these decisions? It's not as if they pluck random fans like us to run these franchises; these guys have time and experience the likes of which we could never dream of, because none of us do this stuff for a living.

How would people on this board feel if some guy showed up at their respective jobs and started telling them they were doing everything wrong because that's not the way he'd do it, and he reads up on it on the internet so he knows better than they do? Because that's exactly what you guys who think your opinion is better than Mayhew's or Kelley's or any other GM not named Matt Millen's is are doing...

 

[tpaulus_2]

I understand. But wouldn't the Lions' franchise have been better served by looking for something better than the rusty hub cap they replaced him with?

And I've made a decision. From now on, when I'm referring to Mayhew, I'm just going to call him Rusty.

I guess that all depends on one's opinion of Mayhew...

 

[Rollingthndr]

Difference is he's a guy getting paid a shit-ton to run a team because of his credentials. You're a dude with internet access. Chip Kelley's football knowledge, understanding, experience, and intuition blows yours (or mine, or anyone else's on here) out of the water and always will.

These are the kind of comments I referenced earlier that I think are pretty absurd. Do people ever stop to consider why on Earth they think their own personal opinion would trump that of industry insiders who have millions of dollars on the line with these decisions? It's not as if they pluck random fans like us to run these franchises; these guys have time and experience the likes of which we could never dream of, because none of us do this stuff for a living.

How would people on this board feel if some guy showed up at their respective jobs and started telling them they were doing everything wrong because that's not the way he'd do it, and he reads up on it on the internet so he knows better than they do? Because that's exactly what you guys who think your opinion is better than Mayhew's or Kelley's or any other GM not named Matt Millen's is are doing...

He get's paid a shit ton of money to COACH a team. The owner is deciding to let the guy choose his own players as well. Which in most cases is generally a mistake. Being a GM is A LOT of work. Being an NFL coach alone is an 80 hour a week job. So letting someone be GM on top is a stupid idea, PERIOD. It's simply to much work for one person.

I am not saying I'm smarter. I'm just going on the side of history. How many times has a coach/gm won a super bowl or even had sustained success vs how many times it has fizzled out?

McCoy,Jackson,Maclin and Foles ARE ALL PRO BOWL PLAYERS. You don't just start dumping your talent and not feel the consequences at some point.

Murray had 2 solid seasons. Now they are paying him 9 million a year. Pair him with baby Mcfadden, Ryan Mathews. Good Luck.

Then let Maclin walk and trade Desean Jackson and now they have Jordan Mathews and pet project Josh Huff.

Then trade Foles for Bradford lmao. Bradford is a weak armed, injury prone bust pick who came from a gimmikey spread offense at Oklahoma. Dude is a Chad Pennington clone with a lot less production.

 

[tpaulus_2]

He get's paid a shit ton of money to COACH a team. The owner is deciding to let the guy choose his own players as well. Which in most cases is generally a mistake. Being a GM is A LOT of work. Being an NFL coach alone is an 80 hour a week job. So letting someone be GM on top is a stupid idea, PERIOD. It's simply to much work for one person.

I am not saying I'm smarter. I'm just going on the side of history. How many times has a coach/gm won a super bowl or even had sustained success vs how many times it has fizzled out?

McCoy,Jackson,Maclin and Foles ARE ALL PRO BOWL PLAYERS. You don't just start dumping your talent and not feel the consequences at some point.

Murray had 2 solid seasons. Now they are paying him 9 million a year. Pair him with baby Mcfadden, Ryan Mathews. Good Luck.

Then let Maclin walk and trade Desean Jackson and now they have Jordan Mathews and pet project Josh Huff.

Then trade Foles for Bradford lmao. Bradford is a weak armed, injury prone bust pick who came from a gimmikey spread offense at Oklahoma. Dude is a Chad Pennington clone with a lot less production.

Huh?

So he's only getting paid to coach the team, but his boss, the guy who owns the team and signs his paychecks, wants him to run the personnel department as well, but somehow he's only getting paid to "COACH"?

That makes less than zero sense right there.

Beyond that I'm seeing a lot of your opinion on these players and how them not being on the team will be the end of Kelley's tenure with the Eagles. Again, I'm going to give the experienced professional the benefit of the doubt over what a hobbyist on the internet thinks. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but from what I can tell it's based almost solely on your perception of the offensive skill players he's chosen not to keep around.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

The fact is the Pats had a string of horrible drafts where they blew most of their high picks. Yet, since they win and we don't, you're trying to tell us they draft better than us, even they Old Lion showed they really didn't over the same stretch of drafts you're lighting up Mayhew for.

I'm not going to get into an argument about the Lions and Pats. Just the fact anyone would post comparing the two franchises in any way is ABSURD. When you make the statement how the Pats had a "string of horrible drafts where they blew most of their high picks" -- it is obvious, you have no idea what you are even talking about and didn't take two seconds to look it up.

Here are New England's 1st round picks since Mayhew took over the Lions:
Devin McCourty 2010
Chandler Jones 2011
Dont'a Hightower 2011
Nate Solder 2012
Dominque Easley 2014

They didn't have a 1st round pick in 2009 and 2013.

Where is the string of drafts they blew their picks?

Was it 2009 when they drafted Patrick Chung, Sebastian Vollmer and Julian Edelman
Was it 2010 when they drafted Devin McCourty, Rob Gronkowski, Brandon Spikes, Aaron Hernandez (pre murder charges LOL)
Was it 2011 when they drafted Nate Solder, Shane Vereen, Stevan Ridley
Was it 2012 when they drafted Chandler Jones and Dont'a Hightower

Maybe it was 2013 when their 2nd round pick already has a season with 116 tackles, 4 forced fumbles, 4 sacks and 3 interceptions in Jamie Collins.

DAMN YOU TP. I didn't want to get into an argument and you baited me in with your response.

 

[tpaulus_2]

I'm not going to get into an argument about the Lions and Pats. Just the fact anyone would post comparing the two franchises in any way is ABSURD. When you make the statement how the Pats had a "string of horrible drafts where they blew most of their high picks" -- it is obvious, you have no idea what you are even talking about and didn't take two seconds to look it up.

Here are New England's 1st round picks since Mayhew took over the Lions:
Devin McCourty 2010
Chandler Jones 2011
Dont'a Hightower 2011
Nate Solder 2012
Dominque Easley 2014

They didn't have a 1st round pick in 2009 and 2013.

Where is the string of drafts they blew their picks?

Was it 2009 when they drafted Patrick Chung, Sebastian Vollmer and Julian Edelman
Was it 2010 when they drafted Devin McCourty, Rob Gronkowski, Brandon Spikes, Aaron Hernandez (pre murder charges LOL)
Was it 2011 when they drafted Nate Solder, Shane Vereen, Stevan Ridley
Was it 2012 when they drafted Chandler Jones and Dont'a Hightower

Maybe it was 2013 when their 2nd round pick already has a season with 116 tackles, 4 forced fumbles, 4 sacks and 3 interceptions in Jamie Collins.

DAMN YOU TP. I didn't want to get into an argument and you baited me in with your response.

Let's be real here, you're already in said argument.

Also, grass is green and the sky is blue...

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

We didn't need a QB with that pick, though, so how does that pertain to us?

We didn't need a TE either, but that didn't stop us from drafting one. That being said -- read the entire thread before posting. Two cents tried comparing spending a top 10 pick on a TE and expecting him to be elite, to a team drafting a QB and expecting him to be Peyton Manning.

There is a reason why you see multiple QB's drafted in the 1st round most years -- it is because it is the premier position on the team and what makes the offense go.

 

[tpaulus_2]

I'm not going to get into an argument about the Lions and Pats. Just the fact anyone would post comparing the two franchises in any way is ABSURD. When you make the statement how the Pats had a "string of horrible drafts where they blew most of their high picks" -- it is obvious, you have no idea what you are even talking about and didn't take two seconds to look it up.

Here are New England's 1st round picks since Mayhew took over the Lions:
Devin McCourty 2010
Chandler Jones 2011
Dont'a Hightower 2011
Nate Solder 2012
Dominque Easley 2014

They didn't have a 1st round pick in 2009 and 2013.

Where is the string of drafts they blew their picks?

Was it 2009 when they drafted Patrick Chung, Sebastian Vollmer and Julian Edelman
Was it 2010 when they drafted Devin McCourty, Rob Gronkowski, Brandon Spikes, Aaron Hernandez (pre murder charges LOL)
Was it 2011 when they drafted Nate Solder, Shane Vereen, Stevan Ridley
Was it 2012 when they drafted Chandler Jones and Dont'a Hightower

Maybe it was 2013 when their 2nd round pick already has a season with 116 tackles, 4 forced fumbles, 4 sacks and 3 interceptions in Jamie Collins.

DAMN YOU TP. I didn't want to get into an argument and you baited me in with your response.

Not to be a dick, but that statement is narrow-minded to the point of absurdity. There's only 32 teams in the NFL, and we're on a website specifically to discuss football, and you're trying to say that the Patroits are SO good, and the Lions are SO bad, that comparing the two in any way is absurd? All while ignoring the fact that his comparison was completely germane to the topic at hand?

Imo these kinds of dismissive statements are made out of pure frustration when someone else makes a great point that you're unprepared to counter...

 

[tpaulus_2]

We didn't need a TE either, but that didn't stop us from drafting one. That being said -- read the entire thread before posting. Two cents tried comparing spending a top 10 pick on a TE and expecting him to be elite, to a team drafting a QB and expecting him to be Peyton Manning.

There is a reason why you see multiple QB's drafted in the 1st round most years -- it is because it is the premier position on the team and what makes the offense go.

I think you ought to change your screen-name to "TunnelVision" because the bigger picture always seems to elude you...

 

[tpaulus_2]

I'm not going to get into an argument about the Lions and Pats. Just the fact anyone would post comparing the two franchises in any way is ABSURD. When you make the statement how the Pats had a "string of horrible drafts where they blew most of their high picks" -- it is obvious, you have no idea what you are even talking about and didn't take two seconds to look it up.

Here are New England's 1st round picks since Mayhew took over the Lions:
Devin McCourty 2010
Chandler Jones 2011
Dont'a Hightower 2011
Nate Solder 2012
Dominque Easley 2014

They didn't have a 1st round pick in 2009 and 2013.

Where is the string of drafts they blew their picks?

Was it 2009 when they drafted Patrick Chung, Sebastian Vollmer and Julian Edelman
Was it 2010 when they drafted Devin McCourty, Rob Gronkowski, Brandon Spikes, Aaron Hernandez (pre murder charges LOL)
Was it 2011 when they drafted Nate Solder, Shane Vereen, Stevan Ridley
Was it 2012 when they drafted Chandler Jones and Dont'a Hightower

Maybe it was 2013 when their 2nd round pick already has a season with 116 tackles, 4 forced fumbles, 4 sacks and 3 interceptions in Jamie Collins.

DAMN YOU TP. I didn't want to get into an argument and you baited me in with your response.

So when they're cutting first and second round picks before their contracts are even up, or when high picks get benched in favor of UDFAs and journeyman veterans, those are good drafts to you simply because the team won a lot of games?

Just think how dominant they would have been if they had drafted better and not wasted so many resources? What's good for the goose is good for the gander- can't hate on Mayhew for stringing out on picks and then give the Pats a pass on doing the very same thing...

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Not to be a dick, but that statement is narrow-minded to the point of absurdity. There's only 32 teams in the NFL, and we're on a website specifically to discuss football, and you're trying to say that the Patroits are SO good, and the Lions are SO bad, that comparing the two in any way is absurd? All while ignoring the fact that his comparison was completely germane to the topic at hand?

Imo these kinds of dismissive statements are made out of pure frustration when someone else makes a great point that you're unprepared to counter...

Yes -- that is exactly what I'm saying. The only thing the Lions and Patriots have in common is they are both in the NFL. If you want to compare the Lions to somebody -- try doing so with a team on common ground with Detroit. Comparing them to one of, if not, the best run franchise, who has been the most successful franchise since Belichick took over is absurd.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Yes -- that is exactly what I'm saying. The only thing the Lions and Patriots have in common is they are both in the NFL. If you want to compare the Lions to somebody -- try doing so with a team on common ground with Detroit. Comparing them to one of, if not, the best run franchise, who has been the most successful franchise since Belichick took over is absurd.

Then your ignorance is what is truly absurd, in this case.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

So when they're cutting first and second round picks before their contracts are even up, or when high picks get benched in favor of UDFAs and journeyman veterans, those are good drafts to you simply because the team won a lot of games?

Just think how dominant they would have been if they had drafted better and not wasted so many resources? What's good for the goose is good for the gander- can't hate on Mayhew for stringing out on picks and then give the Pats a pass on doing the very same thing...

I'm waiting on you to point these out to me? Show me the 1st round picks he flamed out on since 2009? And when you have 14 2nd round picks compared to 6 for Detroit in the same time span -- you can afford to miss.

How about this -- I will name the 2nd round picks for New England and you match them with the 2nd round picks for Detroit. We could do 1st round picks too if you'd like.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Then your ignorance is what is truly absurd, in this case.

Pretty much what I'd expect to hear from someone who can see past the honolulu blue sunglasses. The fact you are arguing this is hilarious.

How about this -- Why don't you put on the NFL general board a post stating how the Lions and Pats been very comparable in the draft since 2009. Let me know how it goes.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Pretty much what I'd expect to hear from someone who can see past the honolulu blue sunglasses. The fact you are arguing this is hilarious.

How about this -- Why don't you put on the NFL general board a post stating how the Lions and Pats been very comparable in the draft since 2009. Let me know how it goes.

Nobody said they were very comparable, Old Lion just compared how many players from those drafts are left on the Pats roster vs. how many players from the same drafts were left on our roster. He made a very good comparison and you were/are just too much of a chicken-shit to actually process the data he posted, so you'd rather derail the debate and start an argument by being belligerent and irrational, because that's just how you operate.

I'm not sure you've ever had an argument on here with anyone where you didn't resort to putting words in someone's mouth. It's cowardly, imo. Stick with what is actually being said instead of having to fabricate and exaggerate in order to prove your point. If your point is valid in the first place, then you wouldn't have to resort to this kind of behavior...