Chip Kelly gets it.

[gvsulaker82]

Op, ebron would have to put up jimmy graham numbers to be worth the tenth pick in the draft. Thats not happening, I think he will be a top ten te in his prime but thats not worth the tenth pick in the draft.

 

[Coach_Ed_LPW]

What "risks" have panned out for Mayhew? He has 2 complete draft classes that are no longer on the team (2010, 2011). He has traded up for 2 players in Jahvid Best and Mikel LeShoure, who are no longer in the NFL. He spent two 2nd round picks on red flag undersized WR's and one should be in the looney bin and the other is a walking injury waiting to happen.

We spent 1st round picks on a pair of dominant DT's and because of piss poor money management -- they are both gone. We have spent 2 first round picks on the TE position, but we have yet to have anything that resembles a upper tier TE.

If you want to call what Mayhew has done risky -- feel free. The only props I can give him is hiring Caldwell and that is only because he brought along Austin. To counter that though -- he also brought along Lombardi, which cancelled out all the good the defense did for us last year.

I take it back -- I give Mayhew props for not compounding the piss poor money management and either tagging Suh for 27 million or signing him to the ridiculous contract the Dolphins just did. He has exactly zero chance of living up to that deal.

In defense of the Leshoure pick...I liked that one at the time. I think he wouldve been good had he not tore his achilles, and you can't fault Mayhew for a fluke devastating injury. A 230 pound guy who ran a 4.5 40 and dominated in college is worth trading up for. I agree with you on the other points.

 

[RobBase]

Op, ebron would have to put up jimmy graham numbers to be worth the tenth pick in the draft. Thats not happening, I think he will be a top ten te in his prime but thats not worth the tenth pick in the draft.

Makes you wonder if the Lions could have got Graham for the 10th pick had they asked, seeing as how he was traded this year.

 

[TwoCents22]

Op, ebron would have to put up jimmy graham numbers to be worth the tenth pick in the draft. Thats not happening, I think he will be a top ten te in his prime but thats not worth the tenth pick in the draft.

I continue to hate this logic. Does Matthew Stafford have to put up Peyton numbers to be worth the first pick? Jimmy Graham has been a top 15 player in the NFL and on pace to obliterate traditional TE records. Why dors Ebron have to match that or be labeled as a wasted pick, yet if it was any other position he can be average and validate the selection. I'd rather have the 3rd best TE in the game then the 20th best QB or 30th best WR.

 

[broncosmitty]

Makes you wonder if the Lions could have got Graham for the 10th pick had they asked, seeing as how he was traded this year.

With his contract we wouldn't have been able to keep our players.

Wait,.... n'rmind.

 

[gvsulaker82]

I continue to hate this logic. Does Matthew Stafford have to put up Peyton numbers to be worth the first pick? Jimmy Graham has been a top 15 player in the NFL and on pace to obliterate traditional TE records. Why dors Ebron have to match that or be labeled as a wasted pick, yet if it was any other position he can be average and validate the selection. I'd rather have the 3rd best TE in the game then the 20th best QB or 30th best WR.

Keep hating. A qb has a much better chance of being an mvp for a team or the league than a TE. Go ahead and tell me how many times qbs have won the league mvp compared to TES. The draft is all about getting the most value with a pick. There's no excuse for drafting a TE that high.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I continue to hate this logic. Does Matthew Stafford have to put up Peyton numbers to be worth the first pick?

I want to add on to what GVSU said, but I don't want to get called out for beating a dead horse. I will just say, there is a slight difference in the importance of the QB position and the TE position.

 

[TwoCents22]

I want to add on to what GVSU said, but I don't want to get called out for beating a dead horse. I will just say, there is a slight difference in the importance of the QB position and the TE position.

Thanks for pointing that out, captain obvious. Still doesn't have anything with saying Ebron has to put up 1100 yards and 12 TDs a year(Grahams last 4 year avg) before he's worth the 10th overall pick. Had we drafted a WR he wouldn't even have to have those numbers. What's the difference with a WR putting up those numbers and a TE? If Ebron is a bust, the last reason to validate that will be his position and draft status.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Thanks for pointing that out, captain obvious. Still doesn't have anything with saying Ebron has to put up 1100 yards and 12 TDs a year(Grahams last 4 year avg) before he's worth the 10th overall pick. Had we drafted a WR he wouldn't even have to have those numbers. What's the difference with a WR putting up those numbers and a TE? If Ebron is a bust, the last reason to validate that will be his position and draft status.

I'm not the one who brought up a QB as an example, that was you. I was just pointing out to you why it made no sense at all.

I honestly don't see what is so hard to understand. TE's are rarely drafted in the first round, let alone the top 10. Since Mayhew has taken over as GM -- exactly two teams have drafted a TE in the 1st round. Detroit and Cincy. They have done so twice. During that same time -- TE's like Rob Gronkowski, Jimmy Graham, Julius Thomas, Jordan Cameron, Dennis Pitta, Travis Kelce, etc. etc. have all been drafted.

When I say if you are going to spend a top 10 pick on a TE -- he better be a can't miss player, it is simply because the TE position is easily filled in later rounds. Hopefully the Lions aren't drafting in the top 10 very often, so when you get a pick like that -- you have to make it count. That is why I was so bitter about the pick, because after reading up on Ebron and seeing him at the combine -- Nothing stood out about him. When you add in his trouble catching the ball and the fact he wasn't asked to block in college -- the pick didn't make sense.

I apologize to the board for talking about the pick again, but just trying to explain my reasoning behind it to two cents.

 

[LPinSLC]

I'm not the one who brought up a QB as an example, that was you. I was just pointing out to you why it made no sense at all.

I honestly don't see what is so hard to understand. TE's are rarely drafted in the first round, let alone the top 10. Since Mayhew has taken over as GM -- exactly two teams have drafted a TE in the 1st round. Detroit and Cincy. They have done so twice. During that same time -- TE's like Rob Gronkowski, Jimmy Graham, Julius Thomas, Jordan Cameron, Dennis Pitta, Travis Kelce, etc. etc. have all been drafted.

When I say if you are going to spend a top 10 pick on a TE -- he better be a can't miss player, it is simply because the TE position is easily filled in later rounds. Hopefully the Lions aren't drafting in the top 10 very often, so when you get a pick like that -- you have to make it count. That is why I was so bitter about the pick, because after reading up on Ebron and seeing him at the combine -- Nothing stood out about him. When you add in his trouble catching the ball and the fact he wasn't asked to block in college -- the pick didn't make sense.

I apologize to the board for talking about the pick again, but just trying to explain my reasoning behind it to two cents.

I agree and have felt the same way since the selection was announced.

 

[tpaulus_2]

Will you stop with the 2 entire draft classes nonsense. Most teams are lucky if 1 guy sticks from a draft class that is 4 years or older. Especially when they trade away picks to move up. That is because the good players sign for more money with other teams (and the bad ones cut by then obviously). We only drafted 11 guys in those 2 years. We drafted 9 in 2009 of which 3 are still on the team. That is 3 of 20 still.

To compare:

The Patriots 2011 draft they actually had 2 extra picks and only 2 guys of those 9 are still on the team. 2009 and 2010 they had a grand total of 24 picks and 5 are still on the team. That is 7 of 33.

Not that much better.

Complain all you want. These guys are going nowhere. You are wasting your breathe.

Nice. I love it when people post stuff like this and ruin the tunnel vision that so many seem to have when it comes to the Lions. They just can't believe that other teams, even good teams, miss on more players than they get right in the draft...

 

[tpaulus_2]

Kelly signed two of the most injury prone backs in the NFL to replace one of the elite RB's in football. Can't wait to see how that turns out.

Or, from another point of view, he replaced one of the more over-rated RBs in the NFL with a pair of cheaper backs that fit his scheme better...

 

[tpaulus_2]

I wasn't even going to waste my time responding to OL's post, as the Lions and Patriots should never be mentioned in the same sentence, as they are two polar opposite franchises over the past couple decades.

I will just say this -- while the Lions are trading up for players, the Patriots trade back and accumulate picks. That is why you see the difference between the two teams draft picks.

Since you wanted to bring up 2009 too -- Detroit drafted THREE TIMES in 2009 before New England made a single pick.

In 2009, 2010 and 2011 -- Detroit had the 1st, 2nd and 13th pick in the draft. New England didn't have a first round pick in 2009, then had the 17th and 27th pick.

You know what -- OL was right. I'm just wasting my breathe. I know there will only be more excuses for Mayhew, no matter what I say. I will just agree.

The fact is the Pats had a string of horrible drafts where they blew most of their high picks. Yet, since they win and we don't, you're trying to tell us they draft better than us, even they Old Lion showed they really didn't over the same stretch of drafts you're lighting up Mayhew for.

Some of you guys need to open your eyes and realize that some of the stuff you're bashing Mayhew for applies to every franchise, every year (even New England, Seattle, and GB). A lot of you have unrealistic expectations out of the draft; what you expect doesn't mesh with how things really go down for most teams most years. A good example is our 2013 draft- Mayhew absolutely killed it and some of you act like that should be the norm for every draft. It isn't.

 

[tpaulus_2]

I think that is why he signed both Murray and Mathews. That way they don't have to carry the load and they can split it up. While I do agree McCoy is one of the elite RB's -- in the last two years -- I believe I read Murray has outproduced him by like 40 yards.

I do agree -- it will definitely be something to watch for regarding the Eagles team. Bradford is another injury prone guy they brought in.

People were calling Kelly crazy letting players like Maclin and Jackson walk, trading Foles and McCoy, but I think he has the team looking better than they were. They had holes at LB and the secondary. They trade McCoy and got one of the best young LB's in the NFL at an extreme discount. They then signed Walter Thurmond and Byron Maxwell to play CB from the money they saved on the McCoy trade.

Basically he took a team whose average age was almost 30 years old and brought in two new RB's, including the reigning Offensive player of the year from their biggest division rival, signed two new CB's and have one of better young LB's in the NFL under contract for a few years at 750k a year (i believe that is what I read).

I still think the Foles for Bradford trade was made, in part, because Murray and Bradford were roommates at Oklahoma and it was one of the keys of getting Murray to come to Philly.

It sounds crazy, but if Bradford can stay healthy -- I think he could have a monster year in Philly's offense. It made Sanchez into a viable QB and I didn't think that was possible. He set career highs, by a landslide, in YPG, YPA, Completion %, QB rating, etc. I think Bradford is more skilled and he ran a hurry up offense at Oklahoma, so he should thrive in this type of system.

... And then you follow up that post with this one, which I completely agree with. Spot-on, imo...

 

[tpaulus_2]

Here is a couple paragraphs talking about Belichick and NE's draft philosophy. It also states how NE rarely overpays in FA and will let a player walk (They have received 25 compensatory picks during his time with NE). It isn't that NE trades only first round picks to move back, though they have done so multiple times. They will trade picks like a 3rd round pick to Carolina, where they get a 2nd round pick the next year.

It also isn't about thinking they can develop players better than anyone. The NFL draft isn't an exact science. If it were -- no one would ever miss on draft picks. The more picks you have, the better chance you have to strike gold. Look no further than Brady, who was drafted with a compensatory pick in the 6th round, or Julian Edelman, who was drafted in the 7th round.

So I'm not sure why you seem to think it isn't the norm for NE to trade back -- they have done so more than any team in the NFL since Belichick took over and continue to do so.

Here is the paragraps I mentioned earlier -- I could post the link to the article if you'd like to read it. It has a catchy name to it: Method to the Madness -- How Beliechick rules the draft

Perhaps the most common characteristic of bad organizations is that they make a habit of giving away draft picks to trade up and acquire a player with an earlier selection. It’s almost always a strong sign that they simply don’t understand the game at hand. The evidence suggests the NFL draft is most likely a crapshoot, so even if your team’s draft board has a first-round grade on a player left in the middle of the second round, chances are that the rest of the league is right and you’re wrong. Teams do trade up and succeed, of course, in the same way that a drunk blackjack player hits on 16 against a five and wins sometimes, but it’s not an optimal strategy.

During his time in New England, Belichick has taken advantage of the misguided general managers and personnel men of the NFL by trading down over and over and over again. Some of the moves haven’t worked out, because Belichick isn’t a soothsayer, and there have been times when Belichick has traded up and been happy with his return. In terms of the Approximate Value from his assorted draft maneuverings, though, Belichick has built a monstrous record of success. It is impossible to imagine the Patriots appearing in this year’s Super Bowl without his massive returns in the trading market.

You're ignoring the fact that, regardless of intentions with said draft moves, the end result was still shitty drafts. There's no hiding from that on this one- while their team success was still good, they had a run of bad drafts where they blew a lot of picks that could have been the difference between a really good team and Super Bowl winner...

 

[tpaulus_2]

Lol @ all the armchair experts wonder how people keep jobs that they personally could only dream of having. I drive a car every, day... guess by the logic around here I'm better than all the NASCAR/INDY/F1 drivers who aren't in the top 10% of their respective positions. Because that's pretty much exactly what goes on here, and I think it's pretty hilarious that people think they'd really do a better job then these guys who are paid millions to basically run a billion dollar organization. But yeah, some dudes who watch and follow the NFL as a hobby know best, that's for sure...

 

[tpaulus_2]

Keep hating. A qb has a much better chance of being an mvp for a team or the league than a TE. Go ahead and tell me how many times qbs have won the league mvp compared to TES. The draft is all about getting the most value with a pick. There's no excuse for drafting a TE that high.

No worries, when you're running your own team soon here you can avoid all the TEs you want in the first round...

 

[tpaulus_2]

And yes, I realize I'm going to catch some shit for my comments, but I donreally givafuck. I find all these definitive "I know better than the professionals" cocky-macho statements to be annoying as fuck. Discussing football (which will be the excuse given) is one thing, but give these dudes some credit for fuckssake; none of us would do any better at all.

 

[tpaulus_2]

I want to add on to what GVSU said, but I don't want to get called out for beating a dead horse. I will just say, there is a slight difference in the importance of the QB position and the TE position.

We didn't need a QB with that pick, though, so how does that pertain to us?

 

[Rollingthndr]

Or, from another point of view, he replaced one of the more over-rated RBs in the NFL with a pair of cheaper backs that fit his scheme better...

LOL. Over rated? ok

"The scheme" same as Moronelli trying to get all those tiny LB's and DL for his "tampa 2"?

You build your defense and offenses around your best players. Not getting average players who fit your scheme that everyone is going to study and eventually learn how to defend.