Captain Marvel 2: The Marvels (2023)

[Clayton]

Thats a fair point and question. Some of the recent video games featuring have had some pretty great stories. Spider-Man 1 and 22, Miles Morales, Guardians Of The Galaxy have all had pretty great writing that rival the movies. Sometimes better. The first two seasons of The Walking Dead game was easily better written than anything the series ever did.

Honestly I thought the GOTG game has better interpretations of the main characters than the movies. I do think Sony games and Marvel movies are aiming at the same audience for the most part and games are much longer.

 

[DarthVedder]

There was nothing deeper and no real emotional charge. If you take the same story and tell it outside of the Marvel universe (which you easily could), it's just terrible. Captain Marvel on an apology tour learning to work with others - plus loads of silliness!

It's down there with Quantumania and Eternals.

They miss Stan Lee.

The moment they said that this is a "wacky silly fun" movie is the moment when I lost all interest. Add that, even the positive reviews say that the plot makes zero sense, but it's "mindless fun", and to me that's a D+ background movie.

 

[The Q]

They absolutely should've told Captain Marvel to use white power to learn how to fly....

 

[Jiddy]

It was a'ight.

Everyone is mad about it though.

Box office numbers...

Misogyny...

"Black Woman Magic"

"White woman is a revered princess to a bunch of Indians that can only sing to communicate...She abandons them and they all die" (I'm not gonna lie...I laughed at this one)

Holy sh*tballs people aren't kidding when they say "you can't do ANYTHING in movies anymore." F*cking A dude...

It was a comic book movie that probably teetered a little too heavily to the humor/get a laugh side than it should have...but that was because they were leaning on the young Ms. Marvel actress...who pulls off the cute thing pretty well. She's the best part of the movie (Well...second only to the cats...which I enjoyed and laughed at heartily)

The only thing that I really disliked was the villain was boring as f*ck...So that makes the movie a C at best. You can't have a great superhero movie with a sh*t villain. And this villain is bottom of the barrel.

 

[DarthVedder]

...

If we are fair, the toxicity flows in both directions. Brie Larson hasn't made herself many favors with some of her comments, but I've seen plenty of outright sexist/misogynist comments directed towards her. Same with Daisy Ridley. Their movies' problems come from writing, not from their performances since they did pretty much what they were asked to do.

Part of this is this shitty stupid divided situation we live in, when the battlelines are drawn way before a movie even comes out.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

If we are fair, the toxicity flows in both directions. Brie Larson hasn't made herself many favors with some of her comments, but I've seen plenty of outright sexist/misogynist comments directed towards her. Same with Daisy Ridley. Their movies' problems come from writing, not from their performances since they did pretty much what they were asked to do.

Part of this is this shitty stupid divided situation we live in, when the battlelines are drawn way before a movie even comes out.

There's always going to be trolls on the Internet that target people just to get a reaction or just because they have nothing better to do with their lives (hell we see it on the politics forum here 24/7). You know how you deal with that? IGNORE THEM, aka - don't feed the trolls.

For a Corporation or someone not standing behind a fake ass username with the protection from their screen to PUBLICLY go on record chastising every single 40 year old WHITE man (Larson, funny that IS racist/sexist/ageist) or men in general or Mr. Mouse to start posting widespread mass media claims that their movie failed because of sexism/racism (and yes, they do) is where it goes overboard. Now frankly, do I care? Well no not really... I just think they're morons because it 1) hurts their public image (people smell bullshit and fake real quick... no, your movie just sucked, but keep making excuses, I don't want to support someone that makes excuses), and 2) hits em directly in their wallet while the zit faced living in mom/dad's basement just creates a new account and continues trolling because it gets attention lol.

And on point #1 - that's true on ANY platform. There's a lot of famous YouTubers who have lost it all REAL quick by all of the sudden blaming outside factors or someone else or YouTube, etc. for their loss of followers. They start to lose some followers because their content starts to suck, and then they get pissy and blame everything but themselves, and then it REALLY just tanks while people just shake their head and walk away from it all together. Exactly what's happening here with tanking stock, DisneyPlus on the decline, etc.

Point being, yes.. toxicity does flow in both directions. There are toxic posters/trolls out there. Guess what? They're not impacted by being toxic. When Disney and their minions respond with toxicity? You do 2 things. 1) Just make the trolls salivate even more, 2) start alienating your fanbase and turn people toxic who were never toxic to begin with. Meanwhile Tom Cruise kicks off his movie with thanking the fans and it's all possible because of them... and his movie lights up the box office without having to shoe in a single narrative on the social horrors of the world.

Disney, you are an ENTERTAINMENT COMPANY! Shut the fuck up and make good movies, not spew political bullshit. Now hey, if you want to become a political platform... go nuts, be my guest. Just expect your entertainment division to start suffering as a result and people to stop watching your shit or in the off chance they do say it sucks... which is exactly what's happening. Reap what you sow Mr. Mouse.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

Saw it in a matinee. It wasn't good. The best parts were ok at best. So much of the movie was blah or cringeworthy. If you're wondering whether to see it or not, just wait until it's on Disney+ and THEN waste your time.

 

[DarthVedder]

...

Movies have always had political messages, and will always have those. What Disney is missing right now is that:

1. Entertainment comes first. If the movie is well written and entertaining, a few political messages are not going to ruin it. Case in point: Avatar movies, which have a clear anti-colonialism / pro-environment message and are the biggest movies ever.

2. Know and respect your fanbase. Marvel and Star Wars' fanbases are mostly male, and we've hearing how these female-led products aren't for males (particularly white men for some reason), and this is what happens: males stop consuming the product and the movies bomb.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

‘The Marvels’ melts down at the box office, marking a new low for the MCU

“The Marvels,” opened with just $47 million, according to studio estimates Sunday.

www.cleveland.com

 

[DarthVedder]

‘The Marvels’ melts down at the box office, marking a new low for the MCU

“The Marvels,” opened with just $47 million, according to studio estimates Sunday.

www.cleveland.com

Actuals came out and movie bombed even harder, with just 45M opening weekend. That's 20% lower than The Flash.

 

[Niner Outlaw]

Actuals came out and movie bombed even harder, with just 45M opening weekend. That's 20% lower than The Flash.

And I thought the Flash was an ok movie. This wasn't nearly as good as the Flash.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Movies have always had political messages, and will always have those. What Disney is missing right now is that:

1. Entertainment comes first. If the movie is well written and entertaining, a few political messages are not going to ruin it. Case in point: Avatar movies, which have a clear anti-colonialism / pro-environment message and are the biggest movies ever.

2. Know and respect your fanbase. Marvel and Star Wars' fanbases are mostly male, and we've hearing how these female-led products aren't for males (particularly white men for some reason), and this is what happens: males stop consuming the product and the movies bomb.

Oh agreed. That was my whole last paragraph (of I'm assuming the last post I made quoting you).

Put women in your movies in lead roles. Put black people or Hispanic, Middle East, I don't care... the VAST MAJORITY of the public really doesn't care. None of this is new, we've been doing it for DECADES. As long as the movie is good mostly everyone doesn't give a shit what you put in there. That said, when the movie tanks, stop calling certain demographics racist/sexist, etc. for that.

One thing I will say Disney has really flamed out on is the live CGI remakes where they race swap or change the entire story to now fit the social narrative. These are classics that we grew up with and we loved them as adults/children (black, white, Hispanic, Asian, male, female, mutilated people, etc.) all the same and now you're cheapening that experience with stupid ass social narratives because we need one that fits the 21st century!

Again, be a political platform Disney... do whatever you want. But again, don't get all pissy or go through Marvelpause when your audience stops forking over money.

I mean either way from what I've read in your posts we're in complete agreement. Not arguing with you just generally commenting.

 

[Clayton]

Oh agreed. That was my whole last paragraph (of I'm assuming the last post I made quoting you).

Put women in your movies in lead roles. Put black people or Hispanic, Middle East, I don't care... the VAST MAJORITY of the public really doesn't care. None of this is new, we've been doing it for DECADES. As long as the movie is good mostly everyone doesn't give a shit what you put in there. That said, when the movie tanks, stop calling certain demographics racist/sexist, etc. for that.

One thing I will say Disney has really flamed out on is the live CGI remakes where they race swap or change the entire story to now fit the social narrative. These are classics that we grew up with and we loved them as adults/children (black, white, Hispanic, Asian, male, female, mutilated people, etc.) all the same and now you're cheapening that experience with stupid ass social narratives because we need one that fits the 21st century!

Again, be a political platform Disney... do whatever you want. But again, don't get all pissy or go through Marvelpause when your audience stops forking over money.

I mean either way from what I've read in your posts we're in complete agreement. Not arguing with you just generally commenting.

I do think we're about 10-11 years into a massive shift. Maybe there has been some diversity but you can pretty clearly see a major slant towards white men in the past. Brave is one of Pixars weaker movies but people went to see it because it had a female protagonist not interested in ending up with a guy. Unfortunately that seems to be the blueprint a lot of times. Captain Marvel 2 was always going to fail because Captain Marvel should have been a phase 1 MCU movie organically in the universe. They should've had time to figure out how she fits in with the whole space opera and developed key arcs to move things along. Coming in this late it just feels like it never had a chance.

Something like The Little Mermaid live action is simply too difficult to make well. The issue is that the original movie has award winning songs sung by great singers. So Disney has to find a singer that sings those songs better while still looking like a model and being able to act. Naturally, they weren't able to do that. Adding in a diversity requirement makes things even more difficult. So right off the bat, The Little Mermaid (and every other live action Ive seen) has weaker singing and thats the main reason my kids want to watch. Beyond that, they release these movies worldwide across many languages so you get very few shots of people's faces with their lips moving because thats hard to dub into non-English languages. So naturally the scenes seem less personal. Beyond that, you have to add in expensive special effects to make things realistic and that often leads to really dark scenes to hide imperfections. There are some genuinely ugly scenes in these live action movies.

I think part of the problem with Star Wars is that many of the people involved might not even care about sci fi, fantasy or westerns. Every show just feels like a product that needs to be consumed.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

I do think we're about 10-11 years into a massive shift. Maybe there has been some diversity but you can pretty clearly see a major slant towards white men in the past. Brave is one of Pixars weaker movies but people went to see it because it had a female protagonist not interested in ending up with a guy. Unfortunately that seems to be the blueprint a lot of times. Captain Marvel 2 was always going to fail because Captain Marvel should have been a phase 1 MCU movie organically in the universe. They should've had time to figure out how she fits in with the whole space opera and developed key arcs to move things along. Coming in this late it just feels like it never had a chance.

Something like The Little Mermaid live action is simply too difficult to make well. The issue is that the original movie has award winning songs sung by great singers. So Disney has to find a singer that sings those songs better while still looking like a model and being able to act. Naturally, they weren't able to do that. Adding in a diversity requirement makes things even more difficult. So right off the bat, The Little Mermaid (and every other live action Ive seen) has weaker singing and thats the main reason my kids want to watch. Beyond that, they release these movies worldwide across many languages so you get very few shots of people's faces with their lips moving because thats hard to dub into non-English languages. So naturally the scenes seem less personal. Beyond that, you have to add in expensive special effects to make things realistic and that often leads to really dark scenes to hide imperfections. There are some genuinely ugly scenes in these live action movies.

I think part of the problem with Star Wars is that many of the people involved might not even care about sci fi, fantasy or westerns. Every show just feels like a product that needs to be consumed.

Good post. I agree.

I think what movie goers are looking for these days is something new and original. And Marvel keeps just throwing out the same crap with the exact same story/formula and audiences have gotten tired of it. The only thing they're really doing different is now 'modernizing for the 21st century' and it's just not enough when to your point, a movie costs $300M to make. And instead of saying, "Hmm we should try something new." Disney continues to churn out the same garbage but with new 'modern' social norms as the focal point (which frankly nobody cares about when watching a movie) and then gets all pissy and calls out demographic groups as not being inclusive. Doesn't help their cause at all.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I haven't seen this movie yet... and I do plan on it... even in theaters...

But I can understand why it is having trouble.., there are many problems...

its back to one of my original problems... they are so focused on the avenger group that anytime they want to bring in new characters it has to be through an already established character with a now A list actor/actress.. especially when its a younger one...

Ms Marvel had maybe the best bet disney+ original Marvel show... if they wanted to put her into the limelight.. it shouldn't be in Captain Marvel's shadow...

another problem is that the original Captain Marvel movie, although it wasn't awful, was still seen as a big disappointment... so of course the second won't get people all excited and all...

its also very true, that even though it is great that Marvel is trying to bring in the female viewers... it will always detract some of its male viewers, as its no longer targeted to them... and we all know comics has a vast majority of male followers..


then we got the potential superhero fatigue... and the political "boycott" on Disney...


I mean, there is a lot going against it... that all will naturally create a hesitancy to see this... many people just wait to see if it is a MUST SEE, but apparently its not that...

 

[BusSport]

Stephen King says The Marvels failed at the box office because of "adolescent fanboy hate":

Some of the rejection of THE MARVELS may be adolescent fanboy hate. You know, "Yuck! GIRLS!"

 

[LyquidMetal]

Stephen King says The Marvels failed at the box office because of "adolescent fanboy hate":

Anything other than it just sucks? Whatever.

 

[DarthVedder]

Stephen King says The Marvels failed at the box office because of "adolescent fanboy hate":

Meh. Even if a few idiots can't stand a female led superhero movie (and I don't think it's that many), that should be more that offset by the legions of women rushing to support this movie. The number 1 movie of the year is a female led movie after all.

 

[Cave_Johnson]

Stephen King says The Marvels failed at the box office because of "adolescent fanboy hate":

Sounds like he's calling this who didn't like the movie gay. But in reality, it is probably he who is gay.

 

[seattlefan75]

I saw it over the weekend I didn't think it was all that bad. I expectations going in where very low so maybe that helped but I have accepted the fact that the awesome Marvel movies from the past is no longer a thing. its been bought out by Disney, Marvel movies are now more PC and are geared towards 15 year olds and its going to be an extreme long time if ever we will see more of the original cast from endgame.