Canadian and American Friends

[Bloody Brian Burke]

It's time for compassion now, but how in the fuck did the provincial/federal gov't allow this thing to get anywhere near Fort Mac? I understand the conditions are perfect for large fires but in that case a) why wasn't more outside equipment mobilized beforehand to at least deflect it from the city, and b) why wasn't the city evacuated until people literally had to drive through fire?

Anyway, Canucks, text Redcross to 30333 and give them 5 bucks. They need about a hundred million at least right now but every little bit helps.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

It's time for compassion now, but how in the fuck did the provincial/federal gov't allow this thing to get anywhere near Fort Mac? I understand the conditions are perfect for large fires but in that case a) why wasn't more outside equipment mobilized beforehand to at least deflect it from the city, and b) why wasn't the city evacuated until people literally had to drive through fire?

Anyway, Canucks, text Redcross to 30333 and give them 5 bucks. They need about a hundred million at least right now but every little bit helps.

just reading that for 2 straight years the Alberta govt has cut forest fire spending from their budget ... I mean sure ... when the fires happen they will spend no matter what to fight them ... BC consistently goes over budget year after year ... but cutting the pre-emptive management stuff is just saving nickels in the grand scheme of things

from 2 years ago

Alberta Environment's budget calls for $6.5 million less in spending for Firesmart, a program that includes cash for clearing brush and trees away from communities in forested areas.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

just reading that for 2 straight years the Alberta govt has cut forest fire spending from their budget ... I mean sure ... when the fires happen they will spend no matter what to fight them ... BC consistently goes over budget year after year ... but cutting the pre-emptive management stuff is just saving nickels in the grand scheme of things

from 2 years ago

Alberta Environment's budget calls for $6.5 million less in spending for Firesmart, a program that includes cash for clearing brush and trees away from communities in forested areas.

Just...all of the facepalms.

I was just reading the local paper and one guy they interviewed said "What I don’t understand was why everyone was telling us to go downtown at first, because you could see the fire coming in,”. It just looks like there was dick all in emergency preparedness despite this being a huge possibility. It's mindboggling.

 

[dash]

Anyway, Canucks, text Redcross to 30333 and give them 5 bucks. They need about a hundred million at least right now but every little bit helps.

Done.

 

[Judge Fudge]

I have a family there(an aunt and uncle). My mom has been in contanst contact with her my aunt and her daughter(who lives in a mining town at the BC/Alberta border). Latest word as of 5 minutes ago is that she is staying in a town called Ansak (west of Fort McMurray)

 

[pixburgher66]

Just...all of the facepalms.

I was just reading the local paper and one guy they interviewed said "What I don’t understand was why everyone was telling us to go downtown at first, because you could see the fire coming in,”. It just looks like there was dick all in emergency preparedness despite this being a huge possibility. It's mindboggling.

I was having these questions too. Like, the people in the motor home park who got hit early. They can literally move their homes, but seems like they trusted the government to tell them when to move or not, and it was just way too late. I guess I'm just thinking with too much hindsight, but man...isn't it easier to be cautious and move people ASAP? Especially considering the driving part? Give people ample time to grab pets and momentos. I mean, maybe they did, but it sure seems like it went 0-100, from don't worry to mandatory evacuation in hours.

 

[esls79]

Wildland fire is a tricky beast - the more you think you know then something like this happens.

I went to school for forestry and had wildland fire training and classes on fire behavior and was taught the ways of the Incident Command System. To me, somebody screwed this up royally - you cannot have this many people in harms way and not have a better evac plan. You just can't. It's not like this happened in the matter of an hour from a two acre brush fire to engulfing an entire city- there was time to prepare and implement an action plan. It's just so sad for those affected by this knowing it was handled rather poorly.

 

[tducey]

This is absolutely tragic. My father works in a camp close to Fort Mcmurray but he's safe, I have family in the city who have left their homes. A cousin lost his home. Just a huge tragedy. Hope this is all over soon.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

Wildland fire is a tricky beast - the more you think you know then something like this happens.

I went to school for forestry and had wildland fire training and classes on fire behavior and was taught the ways of the Incident Command System. To me, somebody screwed this up royally - you cannot have this many people in harms way and not have a better evac plan. You just can't. It's not like this happened in the matter of an hour from a two acre brush fire to engulfing an entire city- there was time to prepare and implement an action plan. It's just so sad for those affected by this knowing it was handled rather poorly.

This is what gets me. Somebody dropped the fucking ball here terribly and those responsible deserve to be charged criminally for what's ensued.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

I mean, maybe they did, but it sure seems like it went 0-100, from don't worry to mandatory evacuation in hours.

the fire kinda did that ... watch how quickly it becomes an inferno in the video in the attachment

Fort McMurray wildfire: Flames erupt along Highway 63 during live Global News broadcast

Global National correspondent Reid Fiest was reporting live on camera in Fort McMurray when the flames of a wildfire burning behind him quickly escalated.

tough situation because you would figure the province had the experience after previous fires in towns (Slave Lake burned) but with the wind and how the fire just erupted and moved so fast ... what can you do at that point? I think they shit the bed in not doing the regular maintenance/burn off

I drove through a forest fire in West Kelowna a couple years back on Highway 97 ... fire on one side of the highway ... working sawmill on the other side of the highway ... and i can remember thinking as we drove through ... "um maybe they should close the road ... huh???"

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

I was having these questions too. Like, the people in the motor home park who got hit early. They can literally move their homes, but seems like they trusted the government to tell them when to move or not, and it was just way too late. I guess I'm just thinking with too much hindsight, but man...isn't it easier to be cautious and move people ASAP? Especially considering the driving part? Give people ample time to grab pets and momentos. I mean, maybe they did, but it sure seems like it went 0-100, from don't worry to mandatory evacuation in hours.

Given that it appears nobody was seriously harmed or killed by this somehow, I've jumped straight to anger. Local, provincial or federal, there seems to have been a Katrina-like breakdown in how to handle this and I'd rather not wait for the "heckuva job Brownie" moment to find out who and why.

 

[dash]

I drove through a forest fire in West Kelowna a couple years back on Highway 97 ... fire on one side of the highway ... working sawmill on the other side of the highway ... and i can remember thinking as we drove through ... "um maybe they should close the road ... huh???"

When was that big fire in Kelowna (2003 or 2004?) At any rate, I missed that fire by about a week (I was vacationing in Lake Country) and it was tinder dry. We had a great time, but I knew it wouldn't take much before they would have a huge problem on their hands.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

Wildland fire is a tricky beast - the more you think you know then something like this happens.

I went to school for forestry and had wildland fire training and classes on fire behavior and was taught the ways of the Incident Command System. To me, somebody screwed this up royally - you cannot have this many people in harms way and not have a better evac plan. You just can't. It's not like this happened in the matter of an hour from a two acre brush fire to engulfing an entire city- there was time to prepare and implement an action plan. It's just so sad for those affected by this knowing it was handled rather poorly.

one major road in and out of town though existing infrastructure didnt exactly help things

 

[dash]

N o
D amn
P lan

 

[jstewismybastardson]

When was that big fire in Kelowna (2003 or 2004?) At any rate, I missed that fire by about a week (I was vacationing in Lake Country) and it was tinder dry. We had a great time, but I knew it wouldn't take much before they would have a huge problem on their hands.

we were there for that one too ... in the lake on a boat as water bombers came to scoop water (out of the fill zone of course) ... some boaters stayed in the fill zone

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

the fire kinda did that ... watch how quickly it becomes an inferno in the video in the attachment

Fort McMurray wildfire: Flames erupt along Highway 63 during live Global News broadcast

Global National correspondent Reid Fiest was reporting live on camera in Fort McMurray when the flames of a wildfire burning behind him quickly escalated.

tough situation because you would figure the province had the experience after previous fires in towns (Slave Lake burned) but with the wind and how the fire just erupted and moved so fast ... what can you do at that point? I think they shit the bed in not doing the regular maintenance/burn off

I drove through a forest fire in West Kelowna a couple years back on Highway 97 ... fire on one side of the highway ... working sawmill on the other side of the highway ... and i can remember thinking as we drove through ... "um maybe they should close the road ... huh???"

That is terrifying.

The fact no firebreaks were constructed alongside major highways (or around the town for that matter) until it was too late is puzzling as hell. What were they waiting for?

 

[jstewismybastardson]

Given that it appears nobody was seriously harmed or killed by this somehow, I've jumped straight to anger. Local, provincial or federal, there seems to have been a Katrina-like breakdown in how to handle this and I'd rather not wait for the "heckuva job Brownie" moment to find out who and why.

when Northlands (which is accepting evacs) turns into the Superdome Ill go there but yah ... not yet

 

[KennyBanyeah]

the fire kinda did that ... watch how quickly it becomes an inferno in the video in the attachment

Fort McMurray wildfire: Flames erupt along Highway 63 during live Global News broadcast

Global National correspondent Reid Fiest was reporting live on camera in Fort McMurray when the flames of a wildfire burning behind him quickly escalated.

tough situation because you would figure the province had the experience after previous fires in towns (Slave Lake burned) but with the wind and how the fire just erupted and moved so fast ... what can you do at that point? I think they shit the bed in not doing the regular maintenance/burn off

I drove through a forest fire in West Kelowna a couple years back on Highway 97 ... fire on one side of the highway ... working sawmill on the other side of the highway ... and i can remember thinking as we drove through ... "um maybe they should close the road ... huh???"

It's the evacuation plan that was wrong here. The clearing of brush does nothing for fires of this magnitude. Smaller fires can be stopped with that kind of thing but you'd need to raze all vegetation fro more than a kilometre around the city to stop a fire like this. No one wants to do that.

They needed to play it safe here and they didn't.

 

[Bloody Brian Burke]

when Northlands (which is accepting evacs) turns into the Superdome Ill go there but yah ... not yet

Severity-wise it'll never approach that because lack of death toll, city appears to be properly (if belatedly) evacuated and the shelters aren't in the disaster zone.

But in terms of poor planning and response? It looks like incompetence on all 3 levels and that is really what Katrina was about.

 

[jstewismybastardson]

I guess i just look at it differently having seem the awesome power of a forest fire first hand .. almost every summer really ... you have fires that go from 10 hectares to 20000 hectares in 3 hours .. and then its approaching a city ... should they have evacuated a working city when it was at 10 hectares I dont know if any amount of planning or computer simulating could have helped forecast mother natures plans