Big 12 Expansion: It's Down to BYU, Houston, and Cincinnati

[HuskerinBig10]

I hope for WVU fans that the new additions to the Big 12 are Cincinnati and/or Memphis. It looks like BYU and Houston are in.

How do the WVU fans feel about the addition of Houston since the Governor of Texas has proclaimed Houston should be in, there is this hospital thing going down in Houston, Texas Billionaires making threats, yada yada yada.

That will be Texas school number 5. Within the next 20 year time frame, do you think RICE and SMU will be back in? I do.

Rumor out there

BYU, Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati are the hot commodities. Three of them are from the AAC.

The poor Big East/AAC has been cannibalized by the ACC and Big 12.

West Virginia was Big East and TCU had agreed to join the Big East but never did. That is 4.5 schools.

The ACC took Boston College, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Miami, Virginia Tech, Lousiville, and Notre Dame. That is 6.5.

What is funny, the Big East Conference sent a flower arrangement to the Big 12 in June 2010, during the Dan Beebe crisis.

The networks agree to keep the money the same for the Big 12 during the Dan Beebe crisis.

The Big 12 turns around and helps seal the death knell on the Big East and if this money stuff is correct on the pro-rata money, no matter who the Big 12 brings in, the Big 12 will be screwing over their network partners, the same ones that saved the Big 12. Now, that is how you build relationships.

 

[Deep Creek]

I'm not talking about the money, I'm talking about the brand. Being on the west coast hurts the money a bit (as does starting up a TV network that the conference owns outright), but the PAC is a far stronger brand.

Sorry oak but the brand takes a back seat to the $$$. At least that is what has been stated over and over again when this realignment shit started. All moves were because of the $$$$. Not because of brand. Not because of athletic/football quality. Not because of academics. People try to use those for rationalization/justification purposes after the fact. But the only reason they were driven to realignment (both on invitation and pursuit) was because of of the almighty dollar difference. Best example: Maryland athletics was so broke they couldn't pass up B1G bucks at the time.

I will agree longevity wise, the PAC 12 looks much more stable than the Big 12. But that stability is due more to geographic isolation than brand. I have no data to base that own. JMO.

 

[Deep Creek]

Rumor out there

BYU, Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati are the hot commodities. Three of them are from the AAC.

The poor Big East/AAC has been cannibalized by the ACC and Big 12.

West Virginia was Big East and TCU had agreed to join the Big East but never did. That is 4.5 schools.

The ACC took Boston College, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Miami, Virginia Tech, Lousiville, and Notre Dame. That is 6.5.

What is funny, the Big East Conference sent a flower arrangement to the Big 12 in June 2010, during the Dan Beebe crisis.

The networks agree to keep the money the same for the Big 12 during the Dan Beebe crisis.

The Big 12 turns around and helps seal the death knell on the Big East and if this money stuff is correct on the pro-rata money, no matter who the Big 12 brings in, the Big 12 will be screwing over their network partners, the same ones that saved the Big 12. Now, that is how you build relationships.

Tulane?Could Tulane be the Big 12 expansion wild card?

 

[oaknightshockey1]

Sorry oak but the brand takes a back seat to the $$$. At least that is what has been stated over and over again when this realignment shit started. All moves were because of the $$$$. Not because of brand. Not because of athletic/football quality. Not because of academics. People try to use those for rationalization/justification purposes after the fact. But the only reason they were driven to realignment (both on invitation and pursuit) was because of of the almighty dollar difference. Best example: Maryland athletics was so broke they couldn't pass up B1G bucks at the time.

I will agree longevity wise, the PAC 12 looks much more stable than the Big 12. But that stability is due more to geographic isolation than brand. I have no data to base that own. JMO.

I agree on money being the major factor. I don't see the Big 12 money train going anywhere, though. What's your opinion on what the next Big 12 TV deal looks like vs. the PAC 12?

 

[Innermind]

If SMU desires an athletics resurgence, the place to be is the SEC. The SEC currently has a southeast Texas fan base with Texas A&M. Perhaps adding some north Texas/Dallas area fans (there's gotta be at least a couple hundred of them) would be the move to make for the SEC.... hehe.

And then to go along with SMU, the SEC should invade B1G territory and add Cincinnati!

lololo!





And....

The Big XII still increases to 14 members by adding:
BYU
Houston
Colorado State
Memphis


And....

The PAC increases to 14 members by adding:
Boise State
San Diego State


And....

The ACC increases to 16 members by adding:
Notre Dame
UConn

 

[Deep Creek]

I agree on money being the major factor. I don't see the Big 12 money train going anywhere, though. What's your opinion on what the next Big 12 TV deal looks like vs. the PAC 12?

Good question. Man, if I had a good crystal ball I'd own Vegas. I'm also one of the idiots that bought stock in Braniff...but you may be too young to get that reference. (I got lucky with WalMart and Southwest Airlines so it buffered the Braniff losses.)

In all seriousness, I don't think either of them will be that good or anything near what the SEC and B1G got/get. I never see the PAC 12, Big 12 or ACC able to generate the "total revenue" the other two do...but for different reasons. So, I think it could be bad for both the PAC12 and Big 12...even if one is better than the other.

The PAC12 doesn't have the rabid fan bases the SEC/B1G do...even if they have a very large population. That population would rather seek the glam of Hollywood, hit the wineries in the bay area or go hiking in the Northwest. They'll watch the game when convenient...if at all. Not as much demand.

My guess is the conferences may have gotten the biggest "goodie" out of networks that they ever will regarding III and maybe the other two. I say this because the millennials have no inhibitions in "cutting the cord". At least that is what my two millennial daughters/son-in-laws tell me. They aren't as beholding to tv/cable companies as my generation. But, the $$ may be just as good on an ala carte basis in the future...and depending on the platforms.

How's that for long winded answer when I could have just said "I have no fucking idea".

 

[Texas Jefe]

Not sold yet on whether the ACC Network will be a moneymaker. It could be, but I'll wait and see. So far, the ACC has not proved to me that they are money-making wise yet.

Now if they explore new ground, the way some UT Texas folks have talked about awhile back being the future, then they might hit it rich. I know there are others in the Big12 who were made aware of these kinds of possibilities in one of the meetings they had discussing startup networks in the current climate.

 

[Scapegoat]

I heard an interesting idea the other day on the radio. It has been thought that the SEC would want OU and Boone St. But recent history would suggest that the SEC only wants one team from each state. (The Mississippi and Alabama schools aren't recent.) What if they take Boone St like they did A&M? They took one little brother why not one more? That frees up OU and Texas to go west.

 

[GoldRusher]

Sports Business Journal: ACC Network could have trouble finding distributors (report)

 

[oaknightshockey1]

Good question. Man, if I had a good crystal ball I'd own Vegas. I'm also one of the idiots that bought stock in Braniff...but you may be too young to get that reference. (I got lucky with WalMart and Southwest Airlines so it buffered the Braniff losses.)

In all seriousness, I don't think either of them will be that good or anything near what the SEC and B1G got/get. I never see the PAC 12, Big 12 or ACC able to generate the "total revenue" the other two do...but for different reasons. So, I think it could be bad for both the PAC12 and Big 12...even if one is better than the other.

The PAC12 doesn't have the rabid fan bases the SEC/B1G do...even if they have a very large population. That population would rather seek the glam of Hollywood, hit the wineries in the bay area or go hiking in the Northwest. They'll watch the game when convenient...if at all. Not as much demand.

My guess is the conferences may have gotten the biggest "goodie" out of networks that they ever will regarding III and maybe the other two. I say this because the millennials have no inhibitions in "cutting the cord". At least that is what my two millennial daughters/son-in-laws tell me. They aren't as beholding to tv/cable companies as my generation. But, the $$ may be just as good on an ala carte basis in the future...and depending on the platforms.

How's that for long winded answer when I could have just said "I have no fucking idea".

Interestingly enough, this article came out today. Lots of speculation that the Big 12 is playing a short-term game here.

Big 12 expansion: Biggest questions for the conference

A quick realignment history lesson is fitting here. Remember when the Big 12 looked rudderless after losing Nebraska, Colorado, Texas A&M and Missouri during the last flurry of realignment earlier this decade? Well, ESPN and FOX stepped up in 2012 and essentially paid the 10-team Big 12—after it added TCU and West Virginia—the same amount of television money it would have paid the 12-team league.

Within the television industry, there’s an open question whether ESPN and FOX are irked that the Big 12 would be using the pro rata clause essentially as a loophole. The clause states that any schools joining the league make an average of approximately $25 million in television money annually. The clause was originally put in during a time of tumult in realignment, when things were so fluid that leagues and networks didn’t want to arbitrate, for example, if TCU was worth the same as Colorado. Or if Rutgers was worth as much as Maryland. Essentially, it was put into place for convenience so schools coming and going could be attributed equal value. The Big 12’s potential additions don’t appear to have close to equal value to the league’s television partners. That’s why multiple sources opined that this latest Big 12 play has a short-term feel to it, as irking ESPN and FOX and diluting their inventory can’t be good for long-term business.

 

[Deep Creek]

Interestingly enough, this article came out today. Lots of speculation that the Big 12 is playing a short-term game here.

Big 12 expansion: Biggest questions for the conference

I think this quote is the one that NONE of the conferences know the answer to:

Two weeks ago at Pac-12 media days, commissioner Larry Scott gave some fascinating insight into the future of broadcast rights. He listed seven companies the Pac-12 is actively building relationships with that could become bidders on the league’s rights when its current Tier 1 rights expire in 2024: Amazon, Google/YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, Apple, Netflix and Snapchat. He added: “I think there’s a good chance you and I are sitting here five years from now, even before our TV rights come up, and are talking about some of the [seven] that I just mentioned in the same breath as Direct TV and Comcast and in the same breath as ESPN and Fox.”

But, this is the best quote from the article IMHO:

"From the start, the Big 12 has acted with all the foresight and long-term vision of a 3 a.m. Las Vegas wedding."

 

[The Q]

I just read the SEC holds most of the top 10 TV rating games for the Houston market.

So now the B12 is trying to keep their territory.

It's unfortunate that it seems UConn is going to finally be totally left out of the game.

They should shut the football program down at that point. Let them cut up a bunch of womens sports that aren't making money anyway. Throw more money behind their basketball, baseball and field hockey programs that are actually good.

 

[oaknightshockey1]

I think this quote is the one that NONE of the conferences know the answer to:

Two weeks ago at Pac-12 media days, commissioner Larry Scott gave some fascinating insight into the future of broadcast rights. He listed seven companies the Pac-12 is actively building relationships with that could become bidders on the league’s rights when its current Tier 1 rights expire in 2024: Amazon, Google/YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, Apple, Netflix and Snapchat. He added: “I think there’s a good chance you and I are sitting here five years from now, even before our TV rights come up, and are talking about some of the [seven] that I just mentioned in the same breath as Direct TV and Comcast and in the same breath as ESPN and Fox.”

But, this is the best quote from the article IMHO:

"From the start, the Big 12 has acted with all the foresight and long-term vision of a 3 a.m. Las Vegas wedding."

Yeah. Overall it was a good article. That quote there from Scott shows just how big the length of the B1G contract could end up being.

 

[Lance Armstrong]

I think this quote is the one that NONE of the conferences know the answer to:

Two weeks ago at Pac-12 media days, commissioner Larry Scott gave some fascinating insight into the future of broadcast rights. He listed seven companies the Pac-12 is actively building relationships with that could become bidders on the league’s rights when its current Tier 1 rights expire in 2024: Amazon, Google/YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, Apple, Netflix and Snapchat. He added: “I think there’s a good chance you and I are sitting here five years from now, even before our TV rights come up, and are talking about some of the [seven] that I just mentioned in the same breath as Direct TV and Comcast and in the same breath as ESPN and Fox.”

But, this is the best quote from the article IMHO:

"From the start, the Big 12 has acted with all the foresight and long-term vision of a 3 a.m. Las Vegas wedding."

Ironically the big 12 might be in the best shape, but by accident. 9 of the 10 schools have digital tier 3 networks I believe, out of necessity but could be set up for the future of broadcasting.

 

[Deep Creek]

Ironically the big 12 might be in the best shape, but by accident. 9 of the 10 schools have digital tier 3 networks I believe, out of necessity but could be set up for the future of broadcasting.

Could be. From what I've been told, "Just In Time" (JIT) purchasing from multiple vendors is what millennials are/will be requiring of the markets. And they want access to it on all their devices.

That sounds like "exclusive" may go the way of Ma Bell! No one thought that would ever happen...much less cell phones.

But, I ain't no expert much less a futurist.

 

[Texas Jefe]

Interestingly enough, this article came out today. Lots of speculation that the Big 12 is playing a short-term game here.

Big 12 expansion: Biggest questions for the conference

Dont think it's a secret. When the Big12 surprised everyone at the end of their media days and said they were moving toward expansion, Bowlsby was quoted as saying, paraphrase, that they were going to "push the contract to it's limits" or something like that.

The inference was that the Espins/Fox legal and contract people had royally screwed up: the contract says that the Big12 can add anyone they want, and the networks have to payout a full payment, i.e. currently 30.4 million per team. Plus, that the current members would NOT have their payouts lessened/diluted no matter who or how many teams are added.

 

[Texas Jefe]

Texas has already been planning for the Amazon/Netflix/Facebook distribution wave that is coming.

The fact that the conference as a whole have been slow and backwards was evident years ago. Texas and ESPN explored setting up a network a long time ago. Texas also tried to get other members to team up with them on a network, but no one was interested.

Now, my opinion is they want get the rest of the payout for LHN, then go a new route. From what I've read, they've broached the subject with other members about the paradigm of distribution opportunities that are becoming available, guess we'll see if the conference still exists in 8 years whether they can all get together and work something out along those lines.

I really dont have a clue what I'm talking about, just repeating shit I've read (my best Anchorman impression)

 

[dennis580]

I think the Big 12 is going to end up taking 4 teams.

 

[HuskerinBig10]

The Big 12 states, Iowa, Kansas, Utah, Ohio, Tennessee, West Virginia, Texas. Looks like the Memphis bribe worked. CCG sponsored by FedEx and played in Texas. Added three schools named after cities.

Tommy Tuberville coached at Texas Tech.

SMACKGATE: Tommy Tuberville apologizes, reprimanded by Big 12
Texas Tech's Tuberville reprimanded by Big 12
Big 12 Conference Reprimands Texas Tech Football Coach Tommy Tuberville



Big 12 North
Iowa State
Kansas State
Kansas
BYU
West Virginia
Cincinnati
Memphis

Big 12 South
Texas Tech
Baylor
Houston
TCU
Texas
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State

 

[GoldRusher]

I think the Big 12 is going to end up taking 4 teams.

Agree,
BYU,Cincy,UConn and UH or Memphis is my guess at this point.