Best examples of tragic heroes in cinema/television

[Omar 382]

I quit.

So you're going to "quit" because you dislike a character from a franchise you've never read/seen? Hater

 

[whiskey]

He is an anti-hero. He did bad seemingly bad things (killing Dumbledore, being a Death Eater), for a noble and pure reason- his love for Lily. And he's undoubtedly a tragic hero.

One of the best characters ever conceived, IMO.

They weren't 'seemingly' bad things. He did horrible shit as a death-eater (killed people), treated people like shit, bullied children, and it was because he had a crush on a dead chick that he couldn't have. That's not noble, that's creepy as fuck, and selfish. The only reason he turned was because Lily's son was the "chosen one". If it had been anyone else, he would have been like 'eh, fuck it"

Also, he asked Voldemort to give him Lily. He wanted to possess her against her will. There's nothing noble about that at all. When he died he only did the shit he did out of a twisted sense of remorse and guilt, and he still acted like a complete dickbag the entire time.

 

[Omar 382]

Ben Sanderson and Chris McCandless come to mind for me.

I'm not into the kid's shit from the OP.

This nig/ga is hating when he chose a Nic Cage movie as his tragic hero example

 

[chf]

No, they really weren't, and this is a common misinterpretation of Breaking Bad IMO. Walter's intentions were never about his family, they were always about himself. When he was sitting in his living room in the pilot watching the meth seizure, all he saw was the money. The show even drowned out the news report and his family talking to focus singularly on Walter staring at the money. And then at the end of the show, he says this:


I told @Clayton, I have few, if any other, understandings/interpretations of TV shows/cinema that I hold as inherently true. This is one of them. He sold meth singularly for himself. To feel alive again, after being stepped on and over his entire life.

You're missing the point though. The dramatic transformation is even MORE poignant, because even if he WAS doing if for his own selfish reasons, he BELIEVED he was doing it for good reasons at the start. He BELIEVED he was a good guy forced to do bad things at the beginning.

He TRANSFORMS into a monster as the show progresses, and that's what makes the show.

It's only in hindsight that Walter would be able to look back and say, 'yeah, I was always a wannabe sociopath.'

 

[Omar 382]

They weren't 'seemingly' bad things. He did horrible shit as a death-eater (killed people), treated people like shit, bullied children, and it was because he had a crush on a dead chick that he couldn't have. That's not noble, that's creepy as fuck, and selfish. The only reason he turned was because Lily's son was the "chosen one". If it had been anyone else, he would have been like 'eh, fuck it"

Also, he asked Voldemort to give him Lily. He wanted to possess her against her will. There's nothing noble about that at all. When he died he only did the shit he did out of a twisted sense of remorse and guilt, and he still acted like a complete dickbag the entire time.

Yeah, you're articulating what an anti-hero is. A non-conventional hero; someone who does bad shit for a good reason (love).

Also, asking Voldemort to "give" him Lily hardly sounds like r*pe to me. Maybe he wanted her so she wouldn't be killed ?

 

[whiskey]

Yeah, you're articulating what an anti-hero is. A non-conventional hero; someone who does bad shit for a good reason (love).

Also, asking Voldemort to "give" him Lily hardly sounds like r*pe to me. Maybe he wanted her so she wouldn't be killed ?

We can debate the definiation of an anti-hero, but you called it noble. That shit is not noble.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

This nig/ga is hating when he chose a Nic Cage movie as his tragic hero example

At least it was written for adults, kiddo.

 

[Omar 382]

You're missing the point though. The dramatic transformation is even MORE poignant, because even if he WAS doing if for his own selfish reasons, he BELIEVED he was doing it for good reasons at the start. He BELIEVED he was a good guy forced to do bad things at the beginning.

He TRANSFORMS into a monster as the show progresses, and that's what makes the show.

It's only in hindsight that Walter would be able to look back and say, 'yeah, I was always a wannabe sociopath.'

What if he always was a sociopath and doing things for himself, and never consciously realized it?

It's like me, going out and becoming a serial killer because A.) I think it's enjoyable, and B.) because I think it will rid the world of evil. In the end, if I never really believed that I was helping anyone, and only did it for reason A., does that make me any more pure in my intent? No, it doesn't.

Walter always cared about the money, and the defining point that tells us this is in the pilot episode where they're in the living room, a clip I can't find.

 

[Omar 382]

We can debate the definiation of an anti-hero, but you called it noble. That shit is not noble.

I called his love for Lily noble, which it is.

 

[chf]

The lead characters in 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest,' 'Taxi Driver', 'A Clockwork Orange,' and even though it remains to be seen what his end arc is, I suspect Jamie Lannister from 'Game of Thrones,' would all be good examples of anti-heroes.

None of those can hold a candle to Severus Snape though. I mean really.

 

[Omar 382]

My favorite tragic-hero is this guy. Stole the National Treasure, but saved it from going to bad guys and then dies in the third film. I cried at the end

 

[chf]

What if he always was a sociopath and doing things for himself, and never consciously realized it?

It's like me, going out and becoming a serial killer because A.) I think it's enjoyable, and B.) because I think it will rid the world of evil. In the end, if I never really believed that I was helping anyone, and only did it for reason A., does that make me any more pure in my intent? No, it doesn't.

Walter always cared about the money, and the defining point that tells us this is in the pilot episode where they're in the living room, a clip I can't find.

He cares about the money because life has kicked him in the nads, and he's on the verge of watching his family become destitute, because of his own illness!

And the above, doesn't make sense as written.

If you're a paranoid schizophrenic and voices are telling you to kill everyone to save the world, then OF COURSE it makes a difference as to your intent (and the penalty you'll pay if you're caught)

 

[Omar 382]

The lead characters in 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest,' 'Taxi Driver', 'A Clockwork Orange,' and even though it remains to be seen what his end arc is, I suspect Jamie Lannister from 'Game of Thrones,' would all be good examples of anti-heroes.

None of those can hold a candle to Severus Snape though. I mean really.

It's called an opinion, bro. Notice the acronym "IMO"?

 

[Omar 382]

He cares about the money because life has kicked him in the nads, and he's on the verge of watching his family become destitute, because of his own illness!

And the above, doesn't make sense as written.

If you're a paranoid schizophrenic and voices are telling you to kill everyone to save the world, then OF COURSE it makes a difference as to your intent (and the penalty you'll pay if you're caught)

Not even 20% sure what you're getting at with above statement.

 

[chf]

Yeah, you're articulating what an anti-hero is. A non-conventional hero; someone who does bad shit for a good reason (love).

Also, asking Voldemort to "give" him Lily hardly sounds like r*pe to me. Maybe he wanted her so she wouldn't be killed ?

Or maybe Snape just isn't an anti-hero, but a self-centered douchebag, who comes to the light late?
'

 

[Omar 382]

Or maybe Snape just isn't an anti-hero, but a self-centered douchebag, who comes to the light late?
'

Perhaps. I view him as an anti-hero, but I'm not as sure about it as I am Walter White. But the fact that he agreed to be a spy some 14 years before being killed makes me think otherwise. The guy was always a douche. Douches can't be anti-heroes? Even though I hardly think he qualifies because it's more of a comedy routine, Deadpool is often cited as the archetypal anti-hero in comic books.

 

[chf]

Not even 20% sure what you're getting at with above statement.

Could he afford to keep getting cancer treatments without money from somewhere else? Yes or no? Pretty simple.

The first inkling or clue that we have that all is not right with Walt is when he turns down the charity from his old 'partners,' but he couldn't keep his head above water within his own means/healthcare plan. They were going to be on the street. Homeless.

Welcome to America!

 

[Omar 382]

Could he afford to keep getting cancer treatments without money from somewhere else? Yes or no? Pretty simple.

The first inkling or clue that we have that all is not right with Walt is when he turns down the charity from his old 'partners,' but he couldn't keep his head above water within his own means/healthcare plan. They were going to be on the street. Homeless.

Welcome to America!

No, but I don't think he gave a fuck about the cancer. Here's another example:

I want to sell drugs and kill people. I get diagnosed with cancer, and don't have any money. I now have reason to sell said drugs and kill people!

 

[Clayton]

No, they really weren't, and this is a common misinterpretation of Breaking Bad IMO. Walter's intentions were never about his family, they were always about himself. When he was sitting in his living room in the pilot watching the meth seizure, all he saw was the money. The show even drowned out the news report and his family talking to focus singularly on Walter staring at the money. And then at the end of the show, he says this:


I told @Clayton, I have few, if any other, understandings/interpretations of TV shows/cinema that I hold as inherently true. This is one of them. He sold meth singularly for himself. To feel alive again, after being stepped on and over his entire life.

So you're saying the show should be called Born Bad?

 

[Omar 382]

Could he afford to keep getting cancer treatments without money from somewhere else? Yes or no? Pretty simple.

The first inkling or clue that we have that all is not right with Walt is when he turns down the charity from his old 'partners,' but he couldn't keep his head above water within his own means/healthcare plan. They were going to be on the street. Homeless.

Welcome to America!

What do you know about America, eh? By the way, I think the line is getting a little long as Tim Horton's. Better put down the phone and go check on those customers man...