Game Thread: Bengals at Jets

[cincygrad]

I'm glad he's playing on Thursday night against a pretty good Colts team so we'll know soon if it this was a complete fluke, a 1999 Kurt Warner situation or somewhere in between.

Even his two INTs were deflected passes that could have been caught by Jets recievers. He was outstanding.

The guy played without their best receiver. I have to assume that things get tough for him after there is some film on him, but who knows.

One thing that struck me yesterday was how difficult it is for teams to defend guys they haven't seen a lot. It's interesting because the week before they did a nice job containing the ultra talented Lamar Jackson. After the game, a few players mentioned that they have been practicing their defenses against Jackson since training camp. Similarly, teams are now taking away the left bootleg from Baker Mayfield because he has ben absolutely devastating going to his left.

All of this is to say..... Maybe teams just really struggle without the tape. Sort of like a pitcher having success in May and June and falling apart mid-summer.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Look, penalties and such aside - the Bengals lost this game on o both sides of the ball. The Jets turned it over 3 times in the first half and the Bengals scored 10 points. Yet, despite those turnovers, the defense still allowed 400 yards passing on 37 of 44 attempts by a guy who they cut last year.

Defensively - this was absolutely at the feet of the D-Cord. It was clear that the game plan was to sit back, rush 4, and make the new QB make quick reads against 7 defenders in space. I do get that approach, so I don't have an issue with going into the game thinking that he may make some mistakes. The issue is, after starting off 11-11, and tearing the defense apart - there was ZERO adjustment. It was obvious the Jets were ready to take advantage of that defensive alignment, and had multiple routes of just 4-5-6 yards, but because the defense was in such a deep zone - they got 10.5 yards per completion. Often times, the catch was made with the nearest defender nowhere within 5 yards of the catch. If they were in the area, they missed tackles. I haven't seen so many missed tackles in a game in a long, long time. Any level. They must have missed 10-15 tackles yesterday.

Offensively - It's time to just flat out admit - Burrow and Chase make Taylor look good when they win, but Taylor is a poor, poor offensive coach. His alignment schemes, his approach, everything. It looks so basic you can nearly call the plays watching TV. Their best plays come on either broken plays on defense where Burrow has time and guys get open, or Burrow checking into another play. For all the talk about this team improving at the OL - they still struggle to run the ball at the point of attack - and yet there is very little misdirection or cutback runs (which have been the basis for several of the longer runs by both Mixon and Perrine this year).

One note on Burrow - 2nd game this year he's lost the game with a chance to take a lead/win the game (Other being GB) with a poor read/reaction INT. I don't know, but my guess is one of the 2 pulling OL on the screen should have chipped the DE (He was never touched) but if you are going to run the fake screen right, throw left - you absolutely CANNOT just turn and throw the ball without looking. You have to be smarter than that. You can NEVER assume that a defender isn't in an area where you haven't looked. It was a poor, poor play by Burrow - and in reality - if you want to blame 1 play for blowing up a chance of a win, I put that at the top of the list over the piss-poor penalty call, because in this instance, Burrow had the ball and made the error that he 100% should have avoided.

The biggest disappointment was just the overall lack of adjustments through the entire game. Especially on defense. So, we can blame that penalty from costing them a chance to get the ball back and make something happen, that's legit, but this game should never have come down to that.

 

[Cincyfan78]

The guy played without their best receiver. I have to assume that things get tough for him after there is some film on him, but who knows.

One thing that struck me yesterday was how difficult it is for teams to defend guys they haven't seen a lot. It's interesting because the week before they did a nice job containing the ultra talented Lamar Jackson. After the game, a few players mentioned that they have been practicing their defenses against Jackson since training camp. Similarly, teams are now taking away the left bootleg from Baker Mayfield because he has ben absolutely devastating going to his left.

All of this is to say..... Maybe teams just really struggle without the tape. Sort of like a pitcher having success in May and June and falling apart mid-summer.

I do think there is something to this, but as good as this defense has been - there was 0 adjustment.

It was clear the game plan from the Jets was to use quick hitting passes to avoid the rush, and limit White's need to "read" the defense. Yet, on I'd bet, 90% of the plays the DB's were 5-10 yards away from any WR who actually caught a pass. The RB on any outlet pass had ZERO coverage on him multiple times.

The only time I saw them bring any kind of pressure, White missed downfield on a pass that had zero chance.

I'm not saying they needed to go all-out blitz 80% of the time, but some press coverage and some shorter zone with an additional rusher here, and there, to keep White moving and force some throws would have been the easiest adjustment in the WORLD to make. It was as if the Bengals only packed 1 defensive play-call sheet and left everything else at home. It simply cannot be excused. It's one thing to get beat when you are throwing the kitchen sink at a guy, and he's just having a career day. It's another to simply do the same thing for 60 minutes, and then wonder how you got beat. Insanity.

 

[jbuck]

felt like we were losing the whole game even tho it was close. juggernaut Jets

 

[cincygrad]

Look, penalties and such aside - the Bengals lost this game on o both sides of the ball. The Jets turned it over 3 times in the first half and the Bengals scored 10 points. Yet, despite those turnovers, the defense still allowed 400 yards passing on 37 of 44 attempts by a guy who they cut last year.

Defensively - this was absolutely at the feet of the D-Cord. It was clear that the game plan was to sit back, rush 4, and make the new QB make quick reads against 7 defenders in space. I do get that approach, so I don't have an issue with going into the game thinking that he may make some mistakes. The issue is, after starting off 11-11, and tearing the defense apart - there was ZERO adjustment. It was obvious the Jets were ready to take advantage of that defensive alignment, and had multiple routes of just 4-5-6 yards, but because the defense was in such a deep zone - they got 10.5 yards per completion. Often times, the catch was made with the nearest defender nowhere within 5 yards of the catch. If they were in the area, they missed tackles. I haven't seen so many missed tackles in a game in a long, long time. Any level. They must have missed 10-15 tackles yesterday.

Offensively - It's time to just flat out admit - Burrow and Chase make Taylor look good when they win, but Taylor is a poor, poor offensive coach. His alignment schemes, his approach, everything. It looks so basic you can nearly call the plays watching TV. Their best plays come on either broken plays on defense where Burrow has time and guys get open, or Burrow checking into another play. For all the talk about this team improving at the OL - they still struggle to run the ball at the point of attack - and yet there is very little misdirection or cutback runs (which have been the basis for several of the longer runs by both Mixon and Perrine this year).

One note on Burrow - 2nd game this year he's lost the game with a chance to take a lead/win the game (Other being GB) with a poor read/reaction INT. I don't know, but my guess is one of the 2 pulling OL on the screen should have chipped the DE (He was never touched) but if you are going to run the fake screen right, throw left - you absolutely CANNOT just turn and throw the ball without looking. You have to be smarter than that. You can NEVER assume that a defender isn't in an area where you haven't looked. It was a poor, poor play by Burrow - and in reality - if you want to blame 1 play for blowing up a chance of a win, I put that at the top of the list over the piss-poor penalty call, because in this instance, Burrow had the ball and made the error that he 100% should have avoided.

The biggest disappointment was just the overall lack of adjustments through the entire game. Especially on defense. So, we can blame that penalty from costing them a chance to get the ball back and make something happen, that's legit, but this game should never have come down to that.

It's hard to know what to make of the defensive coaching. The point you make is a good one, but the counterpoint is that if they make tackles that they should make, they get off the field more and force more punts. It's possible that they were fine with him checking down, making them drive the whole field and forcing punts or long field goals. It's not necessarily the fault of the scheme that they suddenly couldn't tackle.

On offense, it is clear we will struggle with defensive lines that are big and difficult to move. That was a strength of the Bears and a strength of the Jets. Our interior offensive line just isn't good enough to win the point of attack. And that leads directly to bad play calls like the screen call. At that point of the game, I'm fine with a misdirection play, but why not run a reverse or a bootleg and get the tight end out. That play wasn't well schemed or well run. I think Burrow did a nice job making plays where they didn't exist.... My only real bone to pick with him was taking that sack on third and 10. At 4th and 10 we can go for it and still have a chance. For the life of me, I can't figure out why you don't at least try to do something with a sideline throw to Chase or Higgins - You figure those guys can win jump balls or force penalties. As physical and athletic as our receivers are, we rarely get PI penalties go our way.... Makes me think we don't take nearly enough chances.

 

[Cincyfan78]

It's hard to know what to make of the defensive coaching. The point you make is a good one, but the counterpoint is that if they make tackles that they should make, they get off the field more and force more punts. It's possible that they were fine with him checking down, making them drive the whole field and forcing punts or long field goals. It's not necessarily the fault of the scheme that they suddenly couldn't tackle.

On offense, it is clear we will struggle with defensive lines that are big and difficult to move. That was a strength of the Bears and a strength of the Jets. Our interior offensive line just isn't good enough to win the point of attack. And that leads directly to bad play calls like the screen call. At that point of the game, I'm fine with a misdirection play, but why not run a reverse or a bootleg and get the tight end out. That play wasn't well schemed or well run. I think Burrow did a nice job making plays where they didn't exist.... My only real bone to pick with him was taking that sack on third and 10. At 4th and 10 we can go for it and still have a chance. For the life of me, I can't figure out why you don't at least try to do something with a sideline throw to Chase or Higgins - You figure those guys can win jump balls or force penalties. As physical and athletic as our receivers are, we rarely get PI penalties go our way.... Makes me think we don't take nearly enough chances.

Agreed on the tackling - the stat shared on Twitter said 15. I wouldn't be surprised it if was a bit more.

As a defensive guy - I just hate giving up space. The field is confined, and allowing an offense free space to operate drives me up the wall. Make the QB make big plays. Force the action - just a little bit. As you said, if they tackle, they get better results, which I agree with. But, by the 3rd and 4th quarter - the QB was hitting near 90% of his passes...I mean...that calls for an adjustment that has nothing to do with what happens after the pass. You simply can't have a scheme that allows that kind of completion% and expect to get off the field consistently. The Jets scored in the 30's with 3 big turnovers. Should have likely been in the 40's.

 

[Cincyfan78]

1st time in NFL history a QB throwing for 400 yards threw for less than 3.73 Air Yards per attempt.

Highlights both the ridiculous tackling effort, and the scheme overall that had LB's and DB's well out of position to defend passes.

Again, it was clear from the start, the Jets wanted to off-set the pass-rush with quick easy routes. Bengals played right into their hands by rushing 4 most of the day, and playing deep zone - allowing far too much space to make catches and YAC. Then add in the tackling....you get what you got.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

1st time in NFL history a QB throwing for 400 yards threw for less than 3.73 Air Yards per attempt.

Highlights both the ridiculous tackling effort, and the scheme overall that had LB's and DB's well out of position to defend passes.

Again, it was clear from the start, the Jets wanted to off-set the pass-rush with quick easy routes. Bengals played right into their hands by rushing 4 most of the day, and playing deep zone - allowing far too much space to make catches and YAC. Then add in the tackling....you get what you got.

I am very happy with our defense this year. I would have played way more man coverage against an inexperienced QB instead of that deep zone crap we played yesterday. Make the young QB have to hit precise throws in coverage and start letting the front 6 start bringing the house a bit more putting pressure on a guy making his first NFL start. Rattle the young guy, press the WR's who I don't think were World beaters....it isn't like we are playing against Dallas or Tampa with their WR weapons.

With the way we played against Lamar and Baltimore, there was no reason to go soft on White and give him easy completions to gain confidence.

On a side note, I think the Jets used every trick play they had in their playbook yesterday to try and win.

 

[cincygrad]

Those short passes may reflect poorly on our linebackers..... Makes you wonder why Akeem Davis-Gaither only got 20 snaps yesterday. He seems to be a decent option in coverage. If teams are going to nickel and dime you with passes under 5 yards, lets get someone that can cover in that position.

 

[cincygrad]

BTW - It will be interesting to see how well we can adjust this week. The Browns ONLY throw short passes..... There offense is having trouble pushing it downfield.

 

[futballiscool]

The guy played without their best receiver. I have to assume that things get tough for him after there is some film on him, but who knows.

One thing that struck me yesterday was how difficult it is for teams to defend guys they haven't seen a lot. It's interesting because the week before they did a nice job containing the ultra talented Lamar Jackson. After the game, a few players mentioned that they have been practicing their defenses against Jackson since training camp. Similarly, teams are now taking away the left bootleg from Baker Mayfield because he has ben absolutely devastating going to his left.

All of this is to say..... Maybe teams just really struggle without the tape. Sort of like a pitcher having success in May and June and falling apart mid-summer.

Also the Jets OC is the brother of the Packers HC Matt Lafleur so he undoubtedly got every bit of information they learned about the Bengals defensive tendencies 3 weeks ago.

The Jets deserved to win that game. We'll see if it was a one time fluke on either side, the Jets found a QB, or if our defense got exposed

 

[Gypsumstack]

I may be completely wrong on this, because I don't have the actual stats, but it seems the defense has played it's best this year when playing man to man. So why were they playing zone the entire game?

 

[DanBengalfan]

If they play like this every week, last place is a given. If they play to their potential, the super bowl is in reach. The coach is my biggest concern.

 

[Cincyfan78]

If they play like this every week, last place is a given. If they play to their potential, the super bowl is in reach. The coach is my biggest concern.

Yes, I find it interesting that the offense seems best when Burrow is just making the calls. Be it audible or in the hurry up situations. Either way, less Taylor = better offense.

 

[cincygrad]

Yes, I find it interesting that the offense seems best when Burrow is just making the calls. Be it audible or in the hurry up situations. Either way, less Taylor = better offense.

Their best plays all season were either improvised by Burrow or due to the athletic talents of Chase. There really have only been a handful of plays that you would consider a big play due to design.

There have been talented playcallers having trouble across the league this year. Stefanoski in Cleveland, Shanny in SF, even Reid in KC..... So I get that it happens. But the lack of consistency is becoming a problem for us.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Their best plays all season were either improvised by Burrow or due to the athletic talents of Chase. There really have only been a handful of plays that you would consider a big play due to design.

There have been talented playcallers having trouble across the league this year. Stefanoski in Cleveland, Shanny in SF, even Reid in KC..... So I get that it happens. But the lack of consistency is becoming a problem for us.

I see the same issue occurring at UC right now as I do with the Bengals:

When you have top end talent - you can run similar/same sets/plays and finally get the offense moving because you have top end talent. However, the consistency struggles because there is a deft lack of imagination for a ton of the plays.

How many runs does Mixon get win a 4 wide/shotgun look? Hardly any. How many times doe the Bengals go with 2 TE's close to the line, and pass? They do some, but the vast majority are straight ahead runs. Mixon seems to thrive more off the misdirection or cutbacks, and could certainly take advantage of a defense spread out by 4 Wide. Spread the defense out, and let him use his vision and talent to get the yards. Conversely, if defense stay in, then Burrow will make them pay by spreading the ball around.

UC is doing the exact same thing. Everytime they are in spread, it is 90% pass. Big formations 85% run. No real change in formations or imagination. You can run the same play, but you have to be able to do so out of multiple sets to keep the defense honest. It also opens up the ability to audible into favorable matchups, which is is very adept at - even at this early stage of his career.

 

[cincygrad]

It was pretty tough watching the Colts carve up the Jets defense over and over again with Carson Wentz. Yes, we had some success against them, but the Colts were just physically pushing them all over the field. The major difference to me was the scheme - Frank Reich is just smarter than our offensive coaches.

 

[alf8478]

It was pretty tough watching the Colts carve up the Jets defense over and over again with Carson Wentz. Yes, we had some success against them, but the Colts were just physically pushing them all over the field. The major difference to me was the scheme - Frank Reich is just smarter than our offensive coaches.

The bengals did score 31 against the jets. On most days scoring over 30 against a bad team like that should be enough to win.
the jets loss is on the defense and defensive coaches

 

[Cincyfan78]

3 notes:

IND - OL > CIN - OL. I think that was a major difference in the game. The OL for the colts was up to the task of pushing that DL back and around.

The Bengals defense just didn't do enough of anything. They didn't scheme well, they didn't adjust well, and even if they had, they didn't tackle well enough for it to matter.

Offensively, even cracking 30, they had 3 turnovers deep inside NY territory and got 10 points. Can't have that. They also continue to struggle with consistency. Taylor needs more offensive help - he simply isn't good enough. I fully believe that this team wins because Burrow is that good, and the defense has been that good, but Taylor holds this offense back.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

3 notes:

IND - OL > CIN - OL. I think that was a major difference in the game. The OL for the colts was up to the task of pushing that DL back and around.

The Bengals defense just didn't do enough of anything. They didn't scheme well, they didn't adjust well, and even if they had, they didn't tackle well enough for it to matter.

Offensively, even cracking 30, they had 3 turnovers deep inside NY territory and got 10 points. Can't have that. They also continue to struggle with consistency. Taylor needs more offensive help - he simply isn't good enough. I fully believe that this team wins because Burrow is that good, and the defense has been that good, but Taylor holds this offense back.

Keep in mind that the offensive play calling is a combination of Taylor/Callahan/Burrow. So if you are going to blame the offense for its ineptitude, you have to blame all three. I think Burrow is a great talent, but he is not even 20 games into his career. He shows some weaknesses. But the nice thing is, he seems to learn from mistakes pretty well and doesn't continue to keep making the same mistake over and over.

The three of these guys go over the offensive game plan and build it each week based off their opponent. Now, I don't think the playcalling is that bad other than it is a little predictable, that has to stop. You have to pass more in running formations, and you have to run more in passing formations to keep the defense honest. We were doing a better job of that in the first 3 weeks or so, but since then we have been a little too predictable on our play calls.