Game Thread: Bengals at Jets

[alf8478]

Keep in mind that the offensive play calling is a combination of Taylor/Callahan/Burrow. So if you are going to blame the offense for its ineptitude, you have to blame all three. I think Burrow is a great talent, but he is not even 20 games into his career. He shows some weaknesses. But the nice thing is, he seems to learn from mistakes pretty well and doesn't continue to keep making the same mistake over and over.

The three of these guys go over the offensive game plan and build it each week based off their opponent. Now, I don't think the playcalling is that bad other than it is a little predictable, that has to stop. You have to pass more in running formations, and you have to run more in passing formations to keep the defense honest. We were doing a better job of that in the first 3 weeks or so, but since then we have been a little too predictable on our play calls.

Their first (whatever # of) scripted plays are terrible. They do much better once they get off of that.

 

[cincygrad]

Their first (whatever # of) scripted plays are terrible. They do much better once they get off of that.

Exactly.... They've been most effective in 2 minute situations and on plays where things get changed or Burrow and the receivers improvise. Their base offense is wildly inconsistent.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Keep in mind that the offensive play calling is a combination of Taylor/Callahan/Burrow. So if you are going to blame the offense for its ineptitude, you have to blame all three. I think Burrow is a great talent, but he is not even 20 games into his career. He shows some weaknesses. But the nice thing is, he seems to learn from mistakes pretty well and doesn't continue to keep making the same mistake over and over.

The three of these guys go over the offensive game plan and build it each week based off their opponent. Now, I don't think the playcalling is that bad other than it is a little predictable, that has to stop. You have to pass more in running formations, and you have to run more in passing formations to keep the defense honest. We were doing a better job of that in the first 3 weeks or so, but since then we have been a little too predictable on our play calls.

Funny thing is - the offense runs best when it seems that it's just Burrow. That, to me, is very telling on how they scheme through the week, and lack of adjustment seen by the coaching staff.

It was Burrow who went empty back set in the 2nd half against Jax, and called the game's big audible play. It's Burrow who typically leads the 2-minute drill calling the plays and audibles when Cincinnati seems to find its best rhythm in the 1st half before halftime. It also seems like it's Burrow who dissects the 2nd half, and really gets that offense moving. It was Burrow then using the audible in the Bmore game, showing that same screen used in the Jax game, to jail-break CJ for the TD....Burrow. All Burrow.

Scheme-wise - Taylor is bland and unimaginative. The sets are nearly identical for the plays, and with a weaker OL (though improved) they continue to try and shove a square peg through round holes by running up the gut far more often than they should with this line. Mixon has also show a better ability to cut back against defenses. This tells you that A - The need to be able to use more flexibility in sets to run the same plays but also B - they need to get Mixon plays where the OL blocks one way, and allows a better cut-back lane to take advantage of his vision and ability.

You may not remember, but Taylor was on one of the offensive staffs at UC - and he was roundly critisised for many of the same issues. When you have superior talent - you can get away with those things. When you don't, you see the inconsistency that we see on the offensive side of the ball.

Where Burrow has struggled, to me, is that he's still just missing on some of the deeper balls (big catches instead of breakaway TD's) and last week specifically, he was well off-target on several throws that could have resulted in 1st downs, or a TD. Those things I see more on Burrow...but the scheme, approach, and game plan all start with Taylor.

I've said it before, and I still believe it: I'd hire Joe Brady in a heartbeat to reunite Burrow and Chase. The Bengals are going to have plenty of cap to both upgrade the OL and defense (again) next season. The window is open, and I'm just not confident that Taylor is the right guy. I think this team wins because of how damned good Burrow already is and the improved defense (Jets game not withstanding)....and less because of Taylor making that offense unstoppable - which it pretty much should be considering the improvement the OL has shown.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Funny thing is - the offense runs best when it seems that it's just Burrow. That, to me, is very telling on how they scheme through the week, and lack of adjustment seen by the coaching staff.

It was Burrow who went empty back set in the 2nd half against Jax, and called the game's big audible play. It's Burrow who typically leads the 2-minute drill calling the plays and audibles when Cincinnati seems to find its best rhythm in the 1st half before halftime. It also seems like it's Burrow who dissects the 2nd half, and really gets that offense moving. It was Burrow then using the audible in the Bmore game, showing that same screen used in the Jax game, to jail-break CJ for the TD....Burrow. All Burrow.

Scheme-wise - Taylor is bland and unimaginative. The sets are nearly identical for the plays, and with a weaker OL (though improved) they continue to try and shove a square peg through round holes by running up the gut far more often than they should with this line. Mixon has also show a better ability to cut back against defenses. This tells you that A - The need to be able to use more flexibility in sets to run the same plays but also B - they need to get Mixon plays where the OL blocks one way, and allows a better cut-back lane to take advantage of his vision and ability.

You may not remember, but Taylor was on one of the offensive staffs at UC - and he was roundly critisised for many of the same issues. When you have superior talent - you can get away with those things. When you don't, you see the inconsistency that we see on the offensive side of the ball.

Where Burrow has struggled, to me, is that he's still just missing on some of the deeper balls (big catches instead of breakaway TD's) and last week specifically, he was well off-target on several throws that could have resulted in 1st downs, or a TD. Those things I see more on Burrow...but the scheme, approach, and game plan all start with Taylor.

I've said it before, and I still believe it: I'd hire Joe Brady in a heartbeat to reunite Burrow and Chase. The Bengals are going to have plenty of cap to both upgrade the OL and defense (again) next season. The window is open, and I'm just not confident that Taylor is the right guy. I think this team wins because of how damned good Burrow already is and the improved defense (Jets game not withstanding)....and less because of Taylor making that offense unstoppable - which it pretty much should be considering the improvement the OL has shown.

Unfortunately, you don't know some of this stuff, you are assuming. It is safe to assume that Burrow makes the audible calls. But in the 2 minute offense, second half play calling, etc, the coach has communication with the QB. You have no idea how much is Taylor and how much is Burrow in some of that and you have no idea what audible options Burrow is given, because Taylor may be giving him the audibles he can switch to based on defense. I think overall, this offense runs better in a call the play at the line of scrimmage and go 4 wide sets with single back is our best formation. However, that formation doesn't work if you don't do an occasional run up the middle, or shit play to try and keep them honest. However, I digress as I agree that the offense is way to predictable in certain sets. They need to mix that up if those shit plays are going to keep defenses honest on other plays.

Brady would seem like a good idea, but once again, I am more in the mold of I don't think the head coach should be a play caller, but rather a game manager. I would like to see a dedicated offensive coordinator. So if Brady is coming over as a HC, I don't want to see him calling offensve plays. I would rather see him as an offensive coordinator with a head coach managing the game.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Unfortunately, you don't know some of this stuff, you are assuming. It is safe to assume that Burrow makes the audible calls. But in the 2 minute offense, second half play calling, etc, the coach has communication with the QB. You have no idea how much is Taylor and how much is Burrow in some of that and you have no idea what audible options Burrow is given, because Taylor may be giving him the audibles he can switch to based on defense. I think overall, this offense runs better in a call the play at the line of scrimmage and go 4 wide sets with single back is our best formation. However, that formation doesn't work if you don't do an occasional run up the middle, or shit play to try and keep them honest. However, I digress as I agree that the offense is way to predictable in certain sets. They need to mix that up if those shit plays are going to keep defenses honest on other plays.

Brady would seem like a good idea, but once again, I am more in the mold of I don't think the head coach should be a play caller, but rather a game manager. I would like to see a dedicated offensive coordinator. So if Brady is coming over as a HC, I don't want to see him calling offensve plays. I would rather see him as an offensive coordinator with a head coach managing the game.

Well, I know on several of the audibles, Joe talked about him directly calling them - not Taylor. Specifically both the Jax and Baltimore games. He checked in to that 1st play and they hadn't run it since Camp, and CJ had never run the play at all. So, I think it's safe to assume that Burrow has a good amount of freedom at the line, as he should.

We agree on the formations/sets. You can run the same play, but it has to be out of different sets/looks. You also have to switch it up just a bit more - if you run on 80% of your "big" sets - I'm going to hedge my bets on that and stop you 8 of 10 times. Those other 2 times might result in a big play once in a while, but not likely to be consistent enough. If you get into a rhythm of running a set 10 times, and more balance play-calling (6 runs in a big set, or 7 depending on how well it is working- and 3-4 passes) then you start opening things up because of those 4 passes, now you are likely getting good yardage on 2 of those, keeping the chains moving, and then the big play really hurts because you are not only unable to stop them on defense consistently, but they are now able to take shots out of that formation for big chunk plays most consistently.

Agreed on Brady. I'd hire him in as an Assistant HC with a solid salary. A year, or two, working with Taylor and Burrow could set both of them up for better long-term success, and of course Brady would move on to HC somewhere else taking advantage of working with the offensive skill that they currently have. It's a win/win, IMO - though likely far too late to actually hire him away.

Taylor may be a better HC than an offensive guy. It happens. Tons of coordinators don't do well as HC because they try to have too much control over that particular side of the ball when they really need to be more hands off. That means finding high level coordinators, like Brady. I also think it's a lot to ask of any coach, let alone a 1st time HC - I think there should absolutely be a dedicated OC.

 

[cincygrad]

Taylor has a lot in common with Matt Nagy..... Both guys were offensive coaches that didn't call plays. Nagy for Reid and Taylor for McVeigh. Nagy was insistent that he would call plays as the HC in Chicago.... But, he's not nearly as successful or efficient as Bill Lazor (our former OC) as a playcaller. He went to him last year and things got better and he's had to do it again this year.

I think it's possible that Taylor is a good leader. His lockeroom has been amazing - He's steady with the media. I think he's learned some things over the years. But I'd be interested to know what would happen if he allowed someone else run the show on offense. I bet if he had a pro OC, they'd be much better. And they would fully realize their potential.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

Taylor has a lot in common with Matt Nagy..... Both guys were offensive coaches that didn't call plays. Nagy for Reid and Taylor for McVeigh. Nagy was insistent that he would call plays as the HC in Chicago.... But, he's not nearly as successful or efficient as Bill Lazor (our former OC) as a playcaller. He went to him last year and things got better and he's had to do it again this year.

I think it's possible that Taylor is a good leader. His lockeroom has been amazing - He's steady with the media. I think he's learned some things over the years. But I'd be interested to know what would happen if he allowed someone else run the show on offense. I bet if he had a pro OC, they'd be much better. And they would fully realize their potential.

Maybe if Callahan was calling plays with Burrow and let Taylor manage the game. That could improve our offense. No idea how Callahan is as a play caller. I thought he was an OC in Oakland with Carr for a couple years and Carr did pretty well. Maybe he wasn't though and just a QB coach or something. I don't remember.

I would like to see us open up our two minute offense to begin a game, to end the first half and then a steady dose of it in the second half.

I think as Burrow ages and learns the offense, he is going to become a Manning / Brady type. Doesn't matter who the hell the offensive coordinator is because he will run everything from the line of scrimmage. Omaha Omaha

 

[DanBengalfan]

Burrow should improve over time.

if we can protect him. it would be nice to see him improve over the course of the season.

we need a new coach though. these close ass games that we should be winning and end up losing I blame the coach.