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According to David Griffin Kyrie had a commitment from Hayword and Ariza

tlance

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plus, since you really do not take your time to educate yourself about the league I am not surprised you do not know this----- but this year new lotto reform is in effect that flattens the odds. They have taken measures to make tanking less profitable than it was a few years ago---- which actually should help the Cavs this year.

No, I do know that you condescending jackass.

Still doesn't change facts. You were on record saying you wanted the Cavs to trade Love and they have done exactly the opposite.
 

shopson67

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I have been saying how badly the Wizards suck at building teams for my entire life. You aren't telling me anything but I don't know:

The difference between you and me is that I won't pretend that I love every move the Wizards make just because they are my team. In fact, I am typically harder on them than most.

It is funny how criticism of someone's team almost always prompts an attack on the other person's fave team, which had nothing to do with the topic. People get so defensive.
 

WiggyRuss

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It is funny how criticism of someone's team almost always prompts an attack on the other person's fave team, which had nothing to do with the topic. People get so defensive.
its just funny being told that the Cavs are in the middle and need to be blown up by a Wizards fan- a team that just got the 8 seed and was subsequently slaughtered. lol.

If there is one team in the league that needs to blow it up- it just might be the Wiz.

The Cavs just cant go from trying to win a title on July 2nd to tanking on July 6th. A franchise's direction is just not something that can turn on a dime. Its like an oil tanker that needs to be slowly turned around. I mean you know that- you saw it with your Lakers. When you are "trying to Win-Now" for so many years- going the other direction takes some time to shed some contracts and get things going.

At least this time, unlike last time, the Cavs have some young guys to actually start developing. Last time the cupboard was BARE, and I mean BARE. The best young guy they had was probably JJ Hickson. lol.

Now they have Sexton, Osman, probably Hood, Clarkson, Nance Jr., Zizic, etc.
 

shopson67

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its just funny being told that the Cavs are in the middle and need to be blown up by a Wizards fan- a team that just got the 8 seed and was subsequently slaughtered. lol.

If there is one team in the league that needs to blow it up- it just might be the Wiz.

The Cavs just cant go from trying to win a title on July 2nd to tanking on July 6th. A franchise's direction is just not something that can turn on a dime. Its like an oil tanker that needs to be slowly turned around. I mean you know that- you saw it with your Lakers. When you are "trying to Win-Now" for so many years- going the other direction takes some time to shed some contracts and get things going.

At least this time, unlike last time, the Cavs have some young guys to actually start developing. Last time the cupboard was BARE, and I mean BARE. The best young guy they had was probably JJ Hickson. lol.

Now they have Sexton, Osman, probably Hood, Clarkson, Nance Jr., Zizic, etc.

Sexton, sure. Clarkson and Nance are already what you are going to get; there isn't any real upside left with them. Hood hasn't signed, has he? He's a marginal prospect at this point regardless. Osman and Zizic are big question marks as foreign prospects, tough to project yet what they can do at this level. They may be lucky to be JJ Hicksons.

How many minutes are any of these kids going to get? Love and Tristan are starting up front. It will likely be Hill/Smith/Korver filling out the starters. Love and Korver at minimum should've been moved to see what these kids can be. I can't see them making the playoffs regardless; it's just throwing away money and prospect years IMO.
 

trojanfan12

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its just funny being told that the Cavs are in the middle and need to be blown up by a Wizards fan- a team that just got the 8 seed and was subsequently slaughtered. lol.

If there is one team in the league that needs to blow it up- it just might be the Wiz.

The Cavs just cant go from trying to win a title on July 2nd to tanking on July 6th. A franchise's direction is just not something that can turn on a dime. Its like an oil tanker that needs to be slowly turned around. I mean you know that- you saw it with your Lakers. When you are "trying to Win-Now" for so many years- going the other direction takes some time to shed some contracts and get things going.

At least this time, unlike last time, the Cavs have some young guys to actually start developing. Last time the cupboard was BARE, and I mean BARE. The best young guy they had was probably JJ Hickson. lol.

Now they have Sexton, Osman, probably Hood, Clarkson, Nance Jr., Zizic, etc.

lol @proving @shopson67 point.
 

trojanfan12

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A franchise's direction is just not something that can turn on a dime. Its like an oil tanker that needs to be slowly turned around. I mean you know that- you saw it with your Lakers. When you are "trying to Win-Now" for so many years- going the other direction takes some time to shed some contracts and get things going.

The difference is that the Cavs had the opportunity to more or less turn on a dime and chose to re-sign Love instead.

I do agree based on our conversation the other day, that if the Cavs plan is to "feature" Love, hope he plays like Minnesota Love and trade him for picks/young players, then re-signing him is a smart move.

It's risky because of his injury history, but considering the potential return, probably the smart move.

However, if the idea is to feature him with the idea of adding other top FA's, then the GM should be fired and Gilbert should sell the team.
 

WiggyRuss

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The difference is that the Cavs had the opportunity to more or less turn on a dime and chose to re-sign Love instead.

I do agree based on our conversation the other day, that if the Cavs plan is to "feature" Love, hope he plays like Minnesota Love and trade him for picks/young players, then re-signing him is a smart move.

It's risky because of his injury history, but considering the potential return, probably the smart move.

However, if the idea is to feature him with the idea of adding other top FA's, then the GM should be fired and Gilbert should sell the team.
the opprotunity to "turn on a dime"? lol...because of Love---- Love is not the problem- the problem is JR, Korver, Hill, TT---- the vets that are overpaid and that youd like to clear out to let the young guys play.

Kevin Love is only going to help the development of Sexton and guys like him. I could EASILY go back and quote some of your posts about how glowingly veterans like Deng and Mozgov will help the kids----- I am not delusional enough to say Hill and JR and TT will help the kids because they are vets with championship experience though tehy could do that job much better than deng and mozgov could have/did---- but Love is actually a guy that will take the pressure off the kids and make sure they dont get their brains beat in- and as you and me said- his trade value wil llikely go up, and , as we have seen/will see even more this following summer- 30M is not a bad price for a player of Love's caliber.
 

shopson67

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the opprotunity to "turn on a dime"? lol...because of Love---- Love is not the problem- the problem is JR, Korver, Hill, TT---- the vets that are overpaid and that youd like to clear out to let the young guys play.

Kevin Love is only going to help the development of Sexton and guys like him. I could EASILY go back and quote some of your posts about how glowingly veterans like Deng and Mozgov will help the kids----- I am not delusional enough to say Hill and JR and TT will help the kids because they are vets with championship experience though tehy could do that job much better than deng and mozgov could have/did---- but Love is actually a guy that will take the pressure off the kids and make sure they dont get their brains beat in- and as you and me said- his trade value wil llikely go up, and , as we have seen/will see even more this following summer- 30M is not a bad price for a player of Love's caliber.

No, those guys aren't really the problem now (assuming this season is now locked for them); they're easy enough to get away from in the next summer or two. Love is now locked up through what, 2022? That ~$30M contract will be less and less attractive to other teams as the years pass. As much as he hates playing center, that is what he has to be now; a modern center, although he will struggle to defend the smaller/quicker small-ball centers coming up throughout the league. His offensive game is just that though.
 

WiggyRuss

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No, those guys aren't really the problem now (assuming this season is now locked for them); they're easy enough to get away from in the next summer or two. Love is now locked up through what, 2022? That ~$30M contract will be less and less attractive to other teams as the years pass. As much as he hates playing center, that is what he has to be now; a modern center, although he will struggle to defend the smaller/quicker small-ball centers coming up throughout the league. His offensive game is just that though.
if you think Love has less value today than when he signed the extension i dont know what to tell you. you fail to grasp the market for playeres in the NBa--- but i think you will get a good idea next summer.
 

shopson67

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if you think Love has less value today than when he signed the extension i dont know what to tell you. you fail to grasp the market for playeres in the NBa--- but i think you will get a good idea next summer.

Today and when he signed the extension are essentially the same. WTF? Having a liquid lunch today?

Love is what he always has been; a good player on a bad team, and a marginal player on a good team. If you want to spend $30M per for that, have fun.
 

WiggyRuss

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Today and when he signed the extension are essentially the same. WTF? Having a liquid lunch today?

Love is what he always has been; a good player on a bad team, and a marginal player on a good team. If you want to spend $30M per for that, have fun.
yah...5 time all star....one of the best passers among big men in the game...one of the best shooters among big men in the history of the game....one of the very best rebounders in the game.

you are delusional. Love is the PRECISE type of player that has more value in the league than ever. 18-10 and 40% from 3 and exceptional passing for a big man makes him a "marginal player" on a good team? lol.....

He would EASILY, and I mean EASILY be the 2nd best player on the Lakers after LeBron and the bestp layer to play for the Lakers since Kobe started going down the tube (not that that is saying much).

his gravity opens up things for everyone around him.

You will get the picture soon enough. Dont worry. This is LeBrons first time not playing with another all star talent in about a decade. We will all get to see what happens and i think you are going to be unpleasantly surprised.
 

trojanfan12

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the opprotunity to "turn on a dime"? lol...because of Love---- Love is not the problem-

Love eats up a lot of cap space.

I agree that JR, etc. contracts are a bigger problem, but, as you have mentioned, they are relatively short term deals.


Kevin Love is only going to help the development of Sexton and guys like him.

He will to an extent, because he's a professional and as I've said before, It's not like he forgot how to play basketball.

As for Deng and Mozgov, they have nothing to do with the conversation. They did help to an extent, with developing the kids, but not as much as I hoped they would.

If Love can't stay healthy, he won't help the Cavs kids development anymore than Deng and Mozgov did with the Lakers kids.
 

Shanemansj13

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The difference is that the Cavs had the opportunity to more or less turn on a dime and chose to re-sign Love instead.

I do agree based on our conversation the other day, that if the Cavs plan is to "feature" Love, hope he plays like Minnesota Love and trade him for picks/young players, then re-signing him is a smart move.

It's risky because of his injury history, but considering the potential return, probably the smart move.

However, if the idea is to feature him with the idea of adding other top FA's, then the GM should be fired and Gilbert should sell the team.

I mean did they have offers for him this offseason? I mean they had the Paul George for Kyrie trade rumor but I dont see where they could have traded Love for assets or picks. Keeping at least could possibly help get some decent FA’s more than having a rookie lead the show. Was it the best thing? No. But he took less money and now they at least of something to build around, if he gets hurts it means they secure a top 10 pick. I dont think this hurts them, the only way I see his value going if they do want to trade him is either he has some awful seasons or he is injured a lot. The second option is more likely
 

Shanemansj13

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Love eats up a lot of cap space.

What do they need cap space for? They weren’t getting anyone this offseason. Next year they should have a good amount of cap space with Love, if they didnt have him they would have $30 more but they would have Sexton, some young guys. Who wants to play with that? They will have to build through the drafr regardless imo
 

trojanfan12

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I mean did they have offers for him this offseason? I mean they had the Paul George for Kyrie trade rumor but I dont see where they could have traded Love for assets or picks.

As I said, if the plan is to feature him and hope he plays well enough to get them some solid assets in a trade. I think it was the right move.

However, his injury history also makes it a risky one.

But he took less money and now they at least of something to build around,

As I also said if the idea is to build around Love, then it's a mistake. His questionable health aside, he's a piece you add, not a piece you add to.

If I were a Cavs fan, my nightmare scenario would be trying to build around Love. No one who is a difference maker is going to Cleveland to play with Kevin Love. But if he stays healthy and plays like Minnesota Love, he's good enough and the East is bad enough for the Cavs to be in NBA purgatory.

I think we basically, agree on Love.
 

trojanfan12

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What do they need cap space for? They weren’t getting anyone this offseason. Next year they should have a good amount of cap space with Love, if they didnt have him they would have $30 more but they would have Sexton, some young guys. Who wants to play with that? They will have to build through the drafr regardless imo

It's not the cap space this year that's an issue. It's the cap space for the 2-3 years after that when the Cavs could be looking to chase better FA's.

That was the problem with the Kobe contract. While I agreed with it at the time and still do, especially since it left them enough cap space for another max guy...

The truly smart move would have been to not re-sign him or re-sign him at a far lower salary (which probably would have been the same as not signing him lol) so they could have the cap space to chase 2 max guys. Especially since no one was coming to LA to play with a Kobe who was no longer a guaranteed deep playoff run.
 

tlance

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its just funny being told that the Cavs are in the middle and need to be blown up by a Wizards fan- a team that just got the 8 seed and was subsequently slaughtered. lol.

If there is one team in the league that needs to blow it up- it just might be the Wiz.

The Cavs just cant go from trying to win a title on July 2nd to tanking on July 6th. A franchise's direction is just not something that can turn on a dime. Its like an oil tanker that needs to be slowly turned around. I mean you know that- you saw it with your Lakers. When you are "trying to Win-Now" for so many years- going the other direction takes some time to shed some contracts and get things going.

At least this time, unlike last time, the Cavs have some young guys to actually start developing. Last time the cupboard was BARE, and I mean BARE. The best young guy they had was probably JJ Hickson. lol.

Now they have Sexton, Osman, probably Hood, Clarkson, Nance Jr., Zizic, etc.

What does the team I root for have anything to do with it?

It is not like I am praising the Wizards' moves while bashing the Cavs.

That would be ridiculously hypocritical. I bash the Wizards all the time too.

You are that hypocrite though. Because you have been talking crap to @bksballer89, @Heatles84 and @TurnUpTheHeat steadily for the last 4 years.

Now, your team is in a very similar place to where the Heat are, but actually worse, and you justify every move? Cmon man.
 

TurnUpTheHeat

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What does the team I root for have anything to do with it?

It is not like I am praising the Wizards' moves while bashing the Cavs.

That would be ridiculously hypocritical. I bash the Wizards all the time too.

You are that hypocrite though. Because you have been talking crap to @bksballer89, @Heatles84 and @TurnUpTheHeat steadily for the last 4 years.

Now, your team is in a very similar place to where the Heat are, but actually worse, and you justify every move? Cmon man.


What would you expect?
He wanted Love traded, until the moment he wasn’t.
Pretty much if you are going to deal with Wiggy, you know whats coming if the Cavs, Heat or Lakers are involved.
 

WiggyRuss

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What does the team I root for have anything to do with it?

It is not like I am praising the Wizards' moves while bashing the Cavs.

That would be ridiculously hypocritical. I bash the Wizards all the time too.

You are that hypocrite though. Because you have been talking crap to @bksballer89, @Heatles84 and @TurnUpTheHeat steadily for the last 4 years.

Now, your team is in a very similar place to where the Heat are, but actually worse, and you justify every move? Cmon man.
lol if 4 years from now the Cavs are trying to win "now" and trade away a bunch of future picks and sign mediocre veterans to huge deals let me know.

The equivalent for the Cavs is if they went out tomorrow and traded 2 first round picks for "Goran Dragic" and then signed guys like KCP and Trevor Ariza to expensive long term deals.

Please get a clue.
 
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