According to David Griffin Kyrie had a commitment from Hayword and Ariza

[tlance]

This was such a fail, i am not sure how it got 4 winners lol

But is the threat of losing one pick worth losing to the extreme? The Cavs are going to clear cap space of onerous old contracts after this season and have room to maneuver. Signing Love doesn't preclude that.

And losing doesn't guarantee anything.

Often, the fallout from losing a superstar is difficult. In Kobe Bryant's final three receding seasons in Los Angeles, and the two years since he retired, the Lakers' average record is 25-57. They're saved now by free agency, not their rebuild.

The Chicago Bulls missed the playoffs for six straight seasons after Michael Jordan's departure, with an average record of 21-61. The six players the Bulls drafted after those seasons, picked between No. 1 and No. 7 overall, were Elton Brand, Marcus Fizer, Eddy Curry, Jay Williams, Kirk Hinrich and Ben Gordon. Hinrich and Gordon helped the Bulls win one playoff series, but none changed the franchise.

After Larry Bird retired in 1992, the Boston Celtics didn't win a playoff series for nine seasons.

The Dallas Mavericks didn't keep it together after winning the title and haven't won a playoff series in the seven years since. Phoenix and Orlando haven't won a playoff in eight years, Detroit in nine and Charlotte and Sacramento in 14. The Nets have won a playoff series once in the last 11. The Knicks have won a playoff series one year in the last 18. Just being bad and trying to rebuild through the draft very rarely works

And lastly, by signing Love to a 4 year contract he is also tradeable to a lot of teams that may be worried about him not resigning...

IT

It got 4 winners because it is the truth.

No, losing guarantees nothing. But being mediocre guarantees exactly that and it minimizes future potential. The main point is that ALL SUMMER Wiggy was saying bottoming out was the best course of action for the Cavs if LeBron left. No that they appear headed in the opposite direction, surprise surprise, he still finds reason to praise Gilbert.

Nice try though.

But I thought you were a bandwagon Warrior fan now, so not sure why you care so much.

 

[WiggyRuss]

IT

It got 4 winners because it is the truth.

No, losing guarantees nothing. But being mediocre guarantees exactly that and it minimizes future potential. The main point is that ALL SUMMER Wiggy was saying bottoming out was the best course of action for the Cavs if LeBron left. No that they appear headed in the opposite direction, surprise surprise, he still finds reason to praise Gilbert.

Nice try though.

But I thought you were a bandwagon Warrior fan now, so not sure why you care so much.

You can't go from trying to put a championship team around a guy and trying to attract him to stay on July 2nd and then on July 5th go into the tank. Its practically impossible with all the win-now pieces the Cavs have acquired and signed over the last few years.

Guys like JR, Hill, Korver, TT, Love, etc.

After making it to 4 straight NBA Finals and using assets, spending cap space, there is of course going to be a time where you have to take a step back. The Cavs, after making 4 straight Finals and have LeBron leave are just not in a great position.

You just can't go from trying to put a championship team on the floor to tanking in a week. I think this year will give them a lot of clarity as to who they want to keep, who they want to get rid of, going forward, and hopefully give them a chance to acquire some assets at some point - if not during the season- then before the guaranteed portions of JRs and Hill's and Korver's contracts have to be picked up.

 

[tlance]

You can't go from trying to put a championship team around a guy and trying to attract him to stay on July 2nd and then on July 5th go into the tank. Its practically impossible with all the win-now pieces the Cavs have acquired and signed over the last few years.

Guys like JR, Hill, Korver, TT, Love, etc.

After making it to 4 straight NBA Finals and using assets, spending cap space, there is of course going to be a time where you have to take a step back. The Cavs, after making 4 straight Finals and have LeBron leave are just not in a great position.

You just can't go from trying to put a championship team on the floor to tanking in a week. I think this year will give them a lot of clarity as to who they want to keep, who they want to get rid of, going forward, and hopefully give them a chance to acquire some assets at some point - if not during the season- then before the guaranteed portions of JRs and Hill's and Korver's contracts have to be picked up.

Except that you said that was precisely what you wanted the Cavs to do.

You can pretend you like their current direction all you want, but your tune will change when Love is 32, still on the Cavs roster and they are winning 35 games a year.

Actually, you probably will find a way to invent some kind of narrative supporting Gilbert, but everyone knows the truth.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Except that you said that was precisely what you wanted the Cavs to do.

You can pretend you like their current direction all you want, but your tune will change when Love is 32, still on the Cavs roster and they are winning 35 games a year.

Actually, you probably will find a way to invent some kind of narrative supporting Gilbert, but everyone knows the truth.

it IS what I want the Cavs to do---- well- actually I want the Cavs to win 10 straight championships- but I am just telling you the situation as it is- not as how I want it to be.

 

[trojanfan12]

IT

It got 4 winners because it is the truth.

No, losing guarantees nothing. But being mediocre guarantees exactly that and it minimizes future potential. The main point is that ALL SUMMER Wiggy was saying bottoming out was the best course of action for the Cavs if LeBron left. No that they appear headed in the opposite direction, surprise surprise, he still finds reason to praise Gilbert.

Nice try though.

But I thought you were a bandwagon Warrior fan now, so not sure why you care so much.

I pretty much agree with this.

To be fair though, I can see what the Cavs MAY be doing with the Love signing.

As has been pointed out, having Love locked up for 4 years, should make him easier to trade.

If the Cavs plan is to feature him, hope that he plays like Minnesota Love and trade him during or after the season...he could bring a good return that could help them with their rebuild.

If they think they are going to feature him to attract other top FA's, then I think they're making a huge mistake. He's a guy you add, not a guy you build around.

Either way, his injury history makes re-signing him a bit of a gamble.

 

[tlance]

I pretty much agree with this.

To be fair though, I can see what the Cavs MAY be doing with the Love signing.

As has been pointed out, having Love locked up for 4 years, should make him easier to trade.

If the Cavs plan is to feature him, hope that he plays like Minnesota Love and trade him during or after the season...he could bring a good return that could help them with their rebuild.

If they think they are going to feature him to attract other top FA's, then I think they're making a huge mistake. He's a guy you add, not a guy you build around.

Either way, his injury history makes re-signing him a bit of a gamble.

Sure.

And if the Cavs signed him to trade him, then I am okay with that in theory. I just disagree that an extension increases his trade value. There are definitely worse players making more money, but if that isn't viewed as a bad contract 3 years from now I will be absolutely shocked. Love's best days are behind him. I do believe Gilbert intends to keep him. Perhaps I am wrong about that.

 

[lebron23james]

IT

It got 4 winners because it is the truth.

No, losing guarantees nothing. But being mediocre guarantees exactly that and it minimizes future potential. The main point is that ALL SUMMER Wiggy was saying bottoming out was the best course of action for the Cavs if LeBron left. No that they appear headed in the opposite direction, surprise surprise, he still finds reason to praise Gilbert.

Nice try though.

But I thought you were a bandwagon Warrior fan now, so not sure why you care so much.

Not necessarily. I would argue that being mediocre is actually better. That means you are only a piece or 2 away from being good or very good. Trading away all your pieces and trying to tank may actually have worse odds. How many teams of all the tanking team really pull it off, 1 in 10? And if you don't pull it off a good rebuild you could have decades of being terrible, ask Orlando or NY.

Bottoming out didn't work the last time for the cavs, i am not so sure tanking is a great strategy...or any worse than being mediocre.

 

[tlance]

Not necessarily. I would argue that being mediocre is actually better. That means you are only a piece or 2 away from being good or very good. Trading away all your pieces and trying to tank may actually have worse odds. How many teams of all the tanking team really pull it off, 1 in 10? And if you don't pull it off a good rebuild you could have decades of being terrible, ask Orlando or NY.

Bottoming out didn't work the last time for the cavs, i am not so sure tanking is a great strategy...or any worse than being mediocre.

What do you mean?

The Cavs got 3 number 1 picks and eventually won a title.

If you are in a market that attracts stud free agents, you might be able to build that way if you can maintain cap space. In Cleveland though? Good luck.

Being mediocre may lead to more revenue if you miss on your picks, but there is literally zero chance of building a team that can eventually contend in a city like Cleveland.

 

[WiggyRuss]

What do you mean?

The Cavs got 3 number 1 picks and eventually won a title.

If you are in a market that attracts stud free agents, you might be able to build that way if you can maintain cap space. In Cleveland though? Good luck.

Being mediocre may lead to more revenue if you miss on your picks, but there is literally zero chance of building a team that can eventually contend in a city like Cleveland.

I mean- in the last few years the Cavs got Love to resign, brought in James, had a commitment from Hayward---- the Celtics who have historically been kryptonite to free agents signed horford, signed hayward......

this is not the NBA of 20 years ago where market mattered so much more. We have seen markets like Miami and Dallas- that would you think are good markets, not be able to sign dick for FA's over the last few years despite supposedly being in on everyone---we saw LA not be able to sign dick for years until they razed it to the ground sucked ass for half a decade and opened up a bunch of cap space.

As i have said- where your team has located has never meant less in teh entire history of the NBA as it does today. Thats indisputable.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

I mean- in the last few years the Cavs got Love to resign, brought in James, had a commitment from Hayward---- the Celtics who have historically been kryptonite to free agents signed horford, signed hayward......

this is not the NBA of 20 years ago where market mattered so much more. We have seen markets like Miami and Dallas- that would you think are good markets, not be able to sign dick for FA's over the last few years despite supposedly being in on everyone---we saw LA not be able to sign dick for years until they razed it to the ground sucked ass for half a decade and opened up a bunch of cap space.

As i have said- where your team has located has never meant less in teh entire history of the NBA as it does today. Thats indisputable.

And where are the cavs now?

Quite hypocritical when you were ripping the Lakers fans for remembering the 'glory days' when essentially that's exactly what you're doing right now.

 

[tlance]

U

I mean- in the last few years the Cavs got Love to resign, brought in James, had a commitment from Hayward---- the Celtics who have historically been kryptonite to free agents signed horford, signed hayward......

this is not the NBA of 20 years ago where market mattered so much more. We have seen markets like Miami and Dallas- that would you think are good markets, not be able to sign dick for FA's over the last few years despite supposedly being in on everyone---we saw LA not be able to sign dick for years until they razed it to the ground sucked ass for half a decade and opened up a bunch of cap space.

As i have said- where your team has located has never meant less in teh entire history of the NBA as it does today. Thats indisputable.

Cleveland has never signed anybody of consequence other than LeBron. Resigning Love doesn't count.

You can say market doesn't matter, but when we went over this last week, the only superstar to sign in a market like Cleveland was LeBron, and that was for obvious reasons.

Bottom line, to have any chance, the Cavs would need to have a championship caliber core. They don't have anything resembling that.

 

[lebron23james]

U


Cleveland has never signed anybody of consequence other than LeBron. Resigning Love doesn't count.

You can say market doesn't matter, but when we went over this last week, the only superstar to sign in a market like Cleveland was LeBron, and that was for obvious reasons.

Bottom line, to have any chance, the Cavs would need to have a championship caliber core. They don't have anything resembling that.

I guess you forgot about the Kyrie Irving...Now Love doesn't count, this is the 2nd time he was resigned...he could have left after year 1 lol

They had a commitment from other stars before lebron.

Who has New York signed? The whole big market thing is played out...And cities for the most part are the next to become obsolete. Tall expensive buildings and charge 10x the price of rural areas and yet everyone can work from home thanks to the internet.

 

[lebron23james]

And where are the cavs now?

Quite hypocritical when you were ripping the Lakers fans for remembering the 'glory days' when essentially that's exactly what you're doing right now.

The cavs still have a playoff team, and will have the same result the lakers have in the playoffs...a loss

 

[WiggyRuss]

U


Cleveland has never signed anybody of consequence other than LeBron. Resigning Love doesn't count.

You can say market doesn't matter, but when we went over this last week, the only superstar to sign in a market like Cleveland was LeBron, and that was for obvious reasons.

Bottom line, to have any chance, the Cavs would need to have a championship caliber core. They don't have anything resembling that.

The Reign Man!!! lol

better than anyone the Wizards have ever signed.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

The cavs still have a playoff team, and will have the same result the lakers have in the playoffs...a loss

 

[WiggyRuss]

IT

It got 4 winners because it is the truth.

No, losing guarantees nothing. But being mediocre guarantees exactly that and it minimizes future potential. The main point is that ALL SUMMER Wiggy was saying bottoming out was the best course of action for the Cavs if LeBron left. No that they appear headed in the opposite direction, surprise surprise, he still finds reason to praise Gilbert.

Nice try though.

But I thought you were a bandwagon Warrior fan now, so not sure why you care so much.

I mean you could say the exact same thing about the Wizards to a certain extent.....8th seed in the East last year......never good enough to make any noise...top out at winning one playoff series if they are lucky.....Overpaid star that gets hurt a lot and is not well-liked by his teammates.

At least the Cavs have some fun young players to watch and a good guy like Kevin Love instead of a mediocre, underachieving, expensive flop of a team like the Wiz. TAlk about a team that should tear it all down and start over- they have been trying with this main core for years and have not done dick. You might be able to get Kuzma, Hart and a pick for Wall.

You have no clue how the Cavs season will go. We KNOW the Wiz were the 8 seed last year and were an unlikable underachieving squad that was not particularly fun to watch.----but Howard will be the answer. lol. Blow that shit up if you ask me.

 

[tlance]

I guess you forgot about the Kyrie Irving...Now Love doesn't count, this is the 2nd time he was resigned...he could have left after year 1 lol

They had a commitment from other stars before lebron.

Who has New York signed? The whole big market thing is played out...And cities for the most part are the next to become obsolete. Tall expensive buildings and charge 10x the price of rural areas and yet everyone can work from home thanks to the internet.

The whole discussion was about signing a superstar free agent.

Love is nowhere near a superstar, and as was discussed at length on another thread, resigning a player does not count because there are obvious advantages built in for the team that had the player under contract.

And Cleveland never resigned Kyrie. Only as a restricted FA when he didn't actually have the option to leave. But you clearly don't understand how RFA works.

 

[tlance]

I mean you could say the exact same thing about the Wizards to a certain extent.....8th seed in the East last year......never good enough to make any noise...top out at winning one playoff series if they are lucky.....Overpaid star that gets hurt a lot and is not well-liked by his teammates.

At least the Cavs have some fun young players to watch and a good guy like Kevin Love instead of a mediocre, underachieving, expensive flop of a team like the Wiz. TAlk about a team that should tear it all down and start over- they have been trying with this main core for years and have not done dick. You might be able to get Kuzma, Hart and a pick for Wall.

You have no clue how the Cavs season will go. We KNOW the Wiz were the 8 seed last year and were an unlikable underachieving squad that was not particularly fun to watch.----but Howard will be the answer. lol. Blow that shit up if you ask me.

I have been saying how badly the Wizards suck at building teams for my entire life. You aren't telling me anything but I don't know:

The difference between you and me is that I won't pretend that I love every move the Wizards make just because they are my team. In fact, I am typically harder on them than most.

 

[tlance]

And again, @lebron23james

You missed the entire market conversation.

Organizational competence is a prerequisite for signing a star. The Knicks haven't done it because they have been horrendously incompetent for years. The Lakers had the same issue before Magic and Pelinka took over.

Nobody is going to play in a dumpster fire no matter the market.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Except that you said that was precisely what you wanted the Cavs to do.

You can pretend you like their current direction all you want, but your tune will change when Love is 32, still on the Cavs roster and they are winning 35 games a year.

Actually, you probably will find a way to invent some kind of narrative supporting Gilbert, but everyone knows the truth.

plus, since you really do not take your time to educate yourself about the league I am not surprised you do not know this----- but this year new lotto reform is in effect that flattens the odds. They have taken measures to make tanking less profitable than it was a few years ago---- which actually should help the Cavs this year.