2017 Offseason Thread

[LoCal Kings]

I would hope they would at least look at some AHL guys and maybe one of them knocks them off their feet. While I like John Stevens, I'm very leery of him as a head coach because of how his days in Philadelphia went, not to mention he has been under Sutter's wing for so long I hope he isn't a Sutter clone.
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I too am leery of J. Stevens being a younger version of Sutter. But at least he has already been a head coach (even if the Philly situation wasn't entirely rosy), and he was here before Sutter was hired in 2012. Clearly, Lombardi's plan was to have Stevens take over the team from Sutter at some point. Should've let Stevens take over a year ago, sink or swim. Hindsight is 20-20.

Real glad Mike Futa is still onboard.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

I too am leery of J. Stevens being a younger version of Sutter. But at least he has already been a head coach (even if the Philly situation wasn't entirely rosy), and he was here before Sutter was hired in 2012. Clearly, Lombardi's plan was to have Stevens take over the team from Sutter at some point. Should've let Stevens take over a year ago, sink or swim. Hindsight is 20-20.

If the rumors are true that Dumbo was on his own with rehiring Sutter and didn’t get support from the organization, you are probably correct in that assessment.

Looking back now, I thought the whole Sutter rehire had a weird feel to it. I thought this at the time but it didn’t feel right. The lead up to it, some talk over the summer, the sudden news he was resigned and vague comments from everyone throughout the whole process. My radar went off thinking something ain’t right here but I didn’t know what. Fast forward a year and it was internal politics, more than likely it was Stevens being pushed by executives but Dumbo was loyal yet again.

Of note: Sutter signed a 3 year deal (last year option) for about $9 million, which put him in some elite catageory – guys making excess of that are Vigneault ($4 million), Babcock ($6.25 million) and Julien ($5 million). More money blown by Dumbo but at least it’s not a cap hit.

McClennan is being paid about the same and the “poor man” in coaching is Blashill at $800,000. Coaching must be a nice gig, Sutter’s base salary in SJ in 1997 was $450,000.

I Real glad Mike Futa is still onboard.

Maybe it’s just me but I am not that impressed with Futa as I was 4-5 years ago. He was instrumental in finding guys like Simmonds, Toffoli, and others who either were vital to the 5 year stretch they had of success or moved strategically to get the help LA needed.

After 2012 however, of the 27 draft picks LA has had they have only played a whopping 50 NHL games combined. This number includes players moved in deals playing for other teams, and half of that number (25 GP) was Kempe this year in LA alone.

I can give him some slack for the 2015 and 2016 drafts because it’s too soon, but that is a downward trend compared to 2007-2012 and what those drafts picks produced. While the Hawks are finding guys on the cheap like Panarin and Panik, we are finding clowns like Hudson Fasching and Valentin Zykov.

The drafting has taken a hit in my opinion and I believe his promotion was more namesake for previous accomplishments than anything. But I want to give this guy a chance to see what he can do under Blake like he did for Dumbo, I just hope he improves the hit ratio.

Guys started getting paid more money which means cheaper, NHL level talent needed to be found and that hasn't happened in recent years.

 

[Stunner_At_Staples_Kings]

The Final Interview: Darryl Sutter on the How and Why of Being Fired, plus What Lies Ahead

Sutter's first interview since being let go. A lot in this article contradicts things we've heard up to this point. But yeah, his full lack of accountability is still really apparent to me.

 

[LoCal Kings]

Good read. I've only recently (this year) read some of the Mayors Manor website. So many talking heads out there, its hard to know which ones are fluff vs. quality content. While I didn't like the fact Lombardi was let go, its obvious this guy called it right a few months ago.

I can't imagine the Kings are waiting to see if another coach is available after the first round losing teams let anyone go (if any do fire anyone). If we believe Blake's comments about hiring a coach with NHL experience, who else (realistically) is out there besides Stevens or Lindy Ruff? I can't think of any off the top of my head that would make sense.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

Boudreau should be available in about 96 hours.

=)~~

Thanks for the link, interesting read. I’m not sure if I see contradictions, more what options the Kings were mulling over depending on where they were at the time.

For example, the article states Dumbo wanted to fire him in 2015 - even though the Kings missed the playoffs, the guy had just won a second Cup in three years not even 12 months earlier. That to me would not make sense at all, I think last summer (2016) was the time to let him go if any, although in my opinion Dumbo is more responsible for the demise of the last 3 years than Sutter.

I see what you have always said about his lack of accountability, or self assessment of what his role was in situations, but I also believe he did take accountability as a coach even if we didn’t see it. We are not privy to the behind the scenes everyday dealings but from what I have gathered over the years is Sutter is a detail oriented, fine tooth comb coach. He left no rock unturned, researched his opponents’ strengths and weaknesses to a T.

I think where he failed was altering the Kings’ game plan as necessary; you can’t play all 29 other teams the same way and expect to win every night and it was blatantly obvious in 2016 more than any of the last 3 seasons. It's a one trick pony show and all 29 other teams know it, making it that much easier to beat LA.

The guy simply did not adjust his coaching style and it cost him. I won’t say he was outcoached but rather he was just too stubborn to make changes because that’s just who he is. Coaches should be adaptable and tailor their game plan accordingly.

I’m extremely curious to see who the Kings pick because it will be a big shift in organizational philosophy, one that took about a decade to establish. Lot of eyes on Blake already and he hasn’t done a thing yet.

 

[Stunner_At_Staples_Kings]

It just seemed to this point like Dean Lombardi was let go for refusing to fire Sutter, but based on that article, it made it seem like DL was the one trying to fire Sutter the past two years. I guess that was the only contradiction I saw, but it was a 180 degree shift from what I had been lead to believe up to this point. Who knows though?

Maybe I come off as harsh on Sutter, because I do think he was a great hire to get this team that final 10% or so (Maybe more). I can't even say I thought he was the right hire at the time, even though he turned out to be the right one. Bringing up King and Nolan were his two main contributions that cannot be denied. I don't know another coach that would have done that at that time. He did benefit from the trade for Carter, which also happened around the time he was hired, but that's really splitting hairs.

Definitely interested in seeing the moves this summer, because this is a monster offseason for this team. Decisions this summer that will be the shape of this team for the potentially the next 5+ years.

*The frustrating part about watching the Playoffs, is that you look at the Kings, and there really isn't that much of a discernible reason why they aren't in. I mean, we watched that dumpster fire all year, and it was maddening, but it is hard for me to sit here and say that this team couldn't beat a lot of teams in a 7 game series. The evidence supports that they probably couldn't, but they aren't that far behind being where they could be.

 

[Stunner_At_Staples_Kings]

Also, just fun debating for me, but Chicago down 0-2 to Nashville (Only 2 games, so we'll see), partly because Chicago started 7 rookies in Game 1. They are really against the cap now (They've always been, but this is Year 2 of the $10.5mil/year each for Kane and Toews). I have asked before, but I have a genuine question about whether or not you can win with so much salary dedicated to so few players (And mostly, can you win with a $10mil/year guy). Chicago lost in Rd 1 last year to the Blues, and now they're up against it again. They said Kane and Toews have combined for 1 goal in their past 8 Playoff games.

I also never understood why Keith got paid so "little". He makes significantly less than Seabrook, and I feel like he's allowed Chicago to remain so competitive for so long.

 

[LoCal Kings]

Also, just fun debating for me, but Chicago down 0-2 to Nashville (Only 2 games, so we'll see), partly because Chicago started 7 rookies in Game 1. They are really against the cap now (They've always been, but this is Year 2 of the $10.5mil/year each for Kane and Toews). I have asked before, but I have a genuine question about whether or not you can win with so much salary dedicated to so few players (And mostly, can you win with a $10mil/year guy). Chicago lost in Rd 1 last year to the Blues, and now they're up against it again. They said Kane and Toews have combined for 1 goal in their past 8 Playoff games.
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The 2009 Penguins & 2010 Hawks had various superstars still on ELCs. And the other Hawks championships, along with the 2 for the Kings, had high paid players, but not elite status cap hit at the time of the wins. But Penguins bucked the trend last year. I guess one could consider it a "bright" spot that Pittsburgh won again last year with a huge chunk of their cap dedicated to a few stars (not to mention that Fleury hardly played in the playoffs).

 

[PuckinUgly57]

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I also never understood why Keith got paid so "little". He makes significantly less than Seabrook, and I feel like he's allowed Chicago to remain so competitive for so long.

It’s all market value at the time of the signing. Keith was one of the highest paid defenders when he signed his 13 year/$72 million deal in Dec 2009 ($5.54 million/season).

Do you remember when Bowlby won the Norris in 1998? He was due for a new contract and there were talks of a hold out. The Kings eventually signed him to a 3 year/$16 million deal, a straight $5.33 million per season for the 1998-99 through 2000-01 season. The Kings always made Blake the highest paid defender in the NHL, and he set the bar for other defenders who needed contracts.

Right before Blake signed his deal (Aug 1998), Al MacInnis signed his deal (July 1998), 3 years/$15 million, a straight $5 million per season (he would win the Norris the following season after Blake in 1999). The Kings used this as the bar and signed Blake to an extra $1 million contract again making him the highest paid defender in the NHL.

It all went to hell with Pronger in 2000 when he signed a 3 year/$29.5 million deal with the Blues – he went from making $5.175 million in 1999-00 – right in the MacInnis/Blake ballpark – to an astronomical leap in salary to $9.5 million. He was an RFA, just won the Hart and Norris too I believe. Leiweke went off the rails at an NHL Governor’s meeting on then Blues GM Larry Pleau accusing him of overpaying for Pronger (he did) because now this was the bar for Blake.

Blake requested $9.6 million from LA or he walks as a GIII UFA in summer 2001, and Taylor made the trade. The maximum the Kings were going to offer Blake was around $8.5 million per season and that was not enough for Blake because of Pronger.

You guys all know the story, and some people will agree and disagree, but the point is market value at the time sets the contract. Look at Doughty, he is pretty underpaid at $7 million now, but when it was signed peoples’ eyes popped. Seabrook makes close to that ($6.875 million) and while a solid defender is not in Doughty territory.

Well earned $56 million too by Doughty, his next contract is the one that scares me.

 

[Stunner_At_Staples_Kings]

s

Well earned $56 million too by Doughty, his next contract is the one that scares me.

Yeah when Doughty held out of Training Camp, it was looking really bad. Then Kings ended up giving him that Contract. It was scary also because we had such a small sample size (Although he was #2 overall pick and was a finalist of the Norris so young). But definitely agree that he earned it despite lofty lofty expectations.

But yeah, that next one is scary to think about. Might be dressing Kopitar, Doughty, and Quick, and the rest will be the Ontario Reign in 2019.

You look at the New England Patriots, and a lot of their success has been due to moving players on the latter part of their prime. Sad to say, but that's part of maintaining success for 15+ years.

 

[Stunner_At_Staples_Kings]

The 2009 Penguins & 2010 Hawks had various superstars still on ELCs. And the other Hawks championships, along with the 2 for the Kings, had high paid players, but not elite status cap hit at the time of the wins. But Penguins bucked the trend last year. I guess one could consider it a "bright" spot that Pittsburgh won again last year with a huge chunk of their cap dedicated to a few stars (not to mention that Fleury hardly played in the playoffs).

True but Pitt struggled for about 8 years. Bounced in Rd 1 or maybe 2 for a long time (In a weak Eastern Conference where it was hard to not make the Playoffs). Won it in 2009, then signed all of those guy. Malkin/Crosby/Fleury/Letang making premium money, and then they all spent time being hurt for long periods of time. Had to lose some talent like Jordan Staal and pretty much every defenseman every year.

But they were able to stock young talent over that period and it's paying off now for sure. Trade for Kessel was huge, along with role guys like Bonino, but mostly homegrown youth playing massive parts for them.

That's just the key for LA right now it seems. Rebuild their farm system and start thinning older players.

 

[Kings4OT]

www.thescore.com/ncaah/news/1283294&v=3


Anyone that can get some points has got to help I would think

 

[PuckinUgly57]

www.thescore.com/ncaah/news/1283294&v=3

Anyone that can get some points has got to help I would think

I’ve always been leery of over aged college kids, I just don’t get a good feeling about them for the most part. Or maybe it’s the over aged college kids LA signs.

=)~~

In all honesty I don’t know much about him, although I read at least 8 NHL teams were interested. Curious to know what sold him on LA.

 

[Kings4OT]

. Curious to know what sold him on LA.

Bitches and ho's

 

[PuckinUgly57]

This is one of the routes the Kings will need to go down - undrafted free agents - to get younger and add some speed and scoring. Their drafting hasn't been that great, and other picks have been traded.

I'm sure Dumbo started this process with this guy some time ago so at least he identified that. I hope they start looking in some obscure leagues as well, lots of good players can probably be had for cheap with no assets lost.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

Disco Dan and Tim Murray fired as coach and GM of Sabres.

Could be a landing spot for Dumbo, the Sabres have a lot of young assets he can turn into players like he did in LA. They have a horrible defense however and we know how much Dumbo likes to build from the net out, would be interesting to see if he ended up there and what he does.

There was a rumor circulating earlier that Jack Eichel would not sign a new contract in 2018 as an RFA is Bylsma was the coach. No idea if there is any truth to that, but interesting that a week or so after that rumor Byslma is gone.

 

[LoCal Kings]

Speaking of past champions with superstars on ELCs...... Edmonton's prime window might be this year and next year. Draisaitl will get a big raise after this season. And after next season, gotta figure Nurse will get a decent raise, and of course McDavid gets a huge raise. The Oil should contenders for years to come, but gotta figure they'll have to dump salary eventually.

 

[PuckinUgly57]

Stevens hired as coach.

Kings name assistant Stevens new head coach

Earlier in this thread I said I hope they sit down with him and he has a detailed plan for how to augment the offense if he were to be seriously considered because I am concerned he would be Sutter Jr. Looks like he did just that, should be interesting to see what the offense looks like.

I think a review of some Flyer games from 2006-2010 should give us an indication of what to expect.

 

[Kings4OT]

yeah, not to excited...but wasn't really expecting to be when they picked someone...

 

[PuckinUgly57]

yeah, not to excited...but wasn't really expecting to be when they picked someone...

Just not a lot of pickins out there these days, all old retreads. We have seen this cycle before over the years.

I am curious about Boudreau, once again he followed his career path to a T - tons of RS success, nothing in the POs. It's almost comical at this point because it's been a 15 year pattern at both the AHL and NHL level with similar denominators - skilled teams, good teams at every level.