Best examples of tragic heroes in cinema/television

[mr.hockey4242]

Good find. This plays into it for sure. And I haven't seen/read the HP series in a while, but you are right that Snape did not know that Harry and Dumbledore would have to die for the wizarding world. Nonetheless, when he did find out at the climax, it may have given him some motivation for all actions for Voldemort in the 7th book.

Dumbledore didn't have to die. He just happened to die.

Also, while still not fully a anti-hero by the definition you laid out, I would argue Jesse is more of one then Walt.

 

[calsnowskier]

Walt's tragic error was not when he decided to cook and sell meth. It was when he decided to bail from the company with his friend. Without that, he never would have needed to go "bad" at the end.

 

[Godstree]

Captain Flint in Black Sails has been through the shit all for gay love.

 

[SteelersPride]

Yes, because we all know awards are the best objective measure of a movie's enjoyability...

didn't u lose a bet n are supposed to be banned

 

[OutlawImmortal]

Speaking of "affronted," has anyone seen the general board? It's a circle-jerk of a bunch of cocksuckers whining about me not leaving, when handicappers never agreed to the bet and wasn't going to honor it himself, and I stopped posting on their sacred board entirely. Can someone say

Girl power.

 

[handicappers]

I couldn't eat the rest of the day

i find that hard to believe by the size of your man boobs.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

Ed Harris from The Rock

actually of all I just read in this thread. I think this is the best example of a "tragic hero"

 

[SU Nittany Tide]

I thought about including him, but I don't think he counts. He consciously chose to sell meth, as opposed to someone who had different/somewhat pure intentions who resulted in a tragic downfall.

Walt is an anti hero

 

[Omar 382]

Walt is an anti hero

Correct.

 

[Bridgeburner]

How about Jax in SOA? I can see an argument both ways on that one.

 

[Payton]

I agree about Pinkman. He actually feels bad about the shit him and Walter do

But back to season one with Walter... Remember neither one of these guys wants to kill the guy they are holding captive in the basement... He doesn't much seem like a guy who's been itching his whole life to kill people to me.

Again, he progresses rather quickly toward enjoying being the bad guy, but I do not believe he starts out that way... I think at first he just want to make money as quickly as possible (Hence his fixation on the money that you point out at the drug bust). He quickly learns that:

1) He's REALLY good at cooking meth

and

2) There are a LOT of really stupid people in this business that he can intellectually dominate and outsmart.

To me, the first indication that he's really starting to enjoy this all is when he slams his wife up against the refrigerator and takes her in the kitchen... That is when the family too begins to notice a difference in him.

Again, because the show goes on for a LONG time after all of this, it seems like Walter always is/was a bad guy, but he doesn't start out that way.

 

[chf]

But back to season one with Walter... Remember neither one of these guys wants to kill the guy they are holding captive in the basement... He doesn't much seem like a guy who's been itching his whole life to kill people to me.

Again, he progresses rather quickly toward enjoying being the bad guy, but I do not believe he starts out that way... I think at first he just want to make money as quickly as possible (Hence his fixation on the money that you point out at the drug bust). He quickly learns that:

1) He's REALLY good at cooking meth

and

2) There are a LOT of really stupid people in this business that he can intellectually dominate and outsmart.

To me, the first indication that he's really starting to enjoy this all is when he slams his wife up against the refrigerator and takes her in the kitchen... That is when the family too begins to notice a difference in him.

Again, because the show goes on for a LONG time after all of this, it seems like Walter always is/was a bad guy, but he doesn't start out that way.

It doesn't hold up logically, because Walt could have been cooking meth his whole teaching career. Or killing puppies, or frowning at toddlers, or something besides being Mr. Polite Middle America.

 

[Omar 382]

But back to season one with Walter... Remember neither one of these guys wants to kill the guy they are holding captive in the basement... He doesn't much seem like a guy who's been itching his whole life to kill people to me.

Again, he progresses rather quickly toward enjoying being the bad guy, but I do not believe he starts out that way... I think at first he just want to make money as quickly as possible (Hence his fixation on the money that you point out at the drug bust). He quickly learns that:

1) He's REALLY good at cooking meth

and

2) There are a LOT of really stupid people in this business that he can intellectually dominate and outsmart.

To me, the first indication that he's really starting to enjoy this all is when he slams his wife up against the refrigerator and takes her in the kitchen... That is when the family too begins to notice a difference in him.

Again, because the show goes on for a LONG time after all of this, it seems like Walter always is/was a bad guy, but he doesn't start out that way.

It doesn't hold up logically, because Walt could have been cooking meth his whole teaching career. Or killing puppies, or frowning at toddlers, or something besides being Mr. Polite Middle America.

Again, as I've said repeatedly, I believe that Walter broke bad in the first episode. Jessie literally asks him something like "What, you're just going to break bad now?" And also, in the pilot episode, Walter comes home after being out all day, nearly getting killed, and dominantly grabs his wife and does her doggystle in the bed. Skyler is surprised as anything herself. This shows a change.

As for not being able to kill Crazy 8 in the 6th episode; yes, I believe it took him a little while to fully adopt the sociopath persona. That does not mean he did not break bad in the pilot (after all, agreeing to sell meth in Albuquerque and expecting not to have to get your hands dirty is stupid. And Walter, while not infinitely criminally intelligent, is not stupid).

But the original point I made was that he did not do it for his family, he did it for himself; not necessarily that he didn't break bad until S2 or whenever. If you want to believe that, fine; the Crazy-8 arc proves your point. But he did do it for himself- the entire time.

 

[chf]

But he did do it for himself- the entire time.

Yep, and I'd agree, however the point STILL remains that he didn't THINK he was doing it for himself at the time.

Wisdom doesn't just fall out of the sky. It's hard earned. Just ask either of my ex wives.

Oh, and some energetic doggy isn't exactly 'breaking bad,' unless we're talking 50 shades of 'I can fix him' grey.

 

[Omar 382]

Yep, and I'd agree, however the point STILL remains that he didn't THINK he was doing it for himself at the time.

Wisdom doesn't just fall out of the sky. It's hard earned. Just ask either of my ex wives.

Oh, and some energetic doggy isn't exactly 'breaking bad,' unless we're talking 50 shades of 'I can fix him' grey.

I referenced the doggystyle to illustrate that there was a change in him- from a passive nobody to someone who was beginning to become dominant.

 

[chf]

I referenced the doggystyle to illustrate that there was a change in him- from a passive nobody to someone who was beginning to become dominant.

And no-one disagrees that Season 1 Episode 1 was the moment when he 'changes.' That's exactly when he starts to change. But the change is very gradual. Thus the title BREAKING bad. Not BROKEN bad.

His illness and the perceived injustice of his situation is what drives him to start making drugs.

His slow and gradual shift into sociopath narcissist (probably redundant), takes a LOOOONG time. Which is the brilliance of the show. Because we (the audience) get to go on that ride with him. We can impossibly root for him to succeed long after he's passed the point of no return. Because that original 'good' Hank is still in there somewhere. We hope for his redemption.

The further brilliance of the show is that he doesn't get it.

For me he didn't become irredeemable until he let Jessie's girlfriend die. Everyone else has their own moment, and who knows, maybe there's people that root for him the whole way.

But if he went 100% to the darkside from S1E1 as you suggest, the show is a VERY different show, and not nearly as good a show, imo.

 

[DetroitFan*]

My favorite tragic-hero is this guy. Stole the National Treasure, but saved it from going to bad guys and then dies in the third film. I cried at the end

No he doesn't, there is no third film. You are an idiot if you're being serious.

 

[Omar 382]

No he doesn't, there is no third film. You are an idiot if you're being serious.

Yeah, I wasn't. But LOL at you for watching them!

 

[Omar 382]

And no-one disagrees that Season 1 Episode 1 was the moment when he 'changes.' That's exactly when he starts to change. But the change is very gradual. Thus the title BREAKING bad. Not BROKEN bad.

His illness and the perceived injustice of his situation is what drives him to start making drugs.

His slow and gradual shift into sociopath narcissist (probably redundant), takes a LOOOONG time. Which is the brilliance of the show. Because we (the audience) get to go on that ride with him. We can impossibly root for him to succeed long after he's passed the point of no return. Because that original 'good' Hank is still in there somewhere. We hope for his redemption.

The further brilliance of the show is that he doesn't get it.

For me he didn't become irredeemable until he let Jessie's girlfriend die. Everyone else has their own moment, and who knows, maybe there's people that root for him the whole way.

But if he went 100% to the darkside from S1E1 as you suggest, the show is a VERY different show, and not nearly as good a show, imo.

I never said he went 100% to the dark side in S1E1. Just that he broke bad... and had a lot more bad in him

 

[DetroitFan*]

Yeah, I wasn't. But LOL at you for watching them!

I saw the first one, not the second one though. I don't mind Nicholas Cage, I've liked him in most of the movies I have seen him in.