Detroit Tigers Ongoing 2016 Thread

[broncosmitty]

It makes me laugh that you put so much focus on the Pelfrey signing. I am not a fan of him.. and they could have spent the money in a better way... but seriously.. you are harping on it like you expect to get a CY Young Caliber free agent for 8 mil a yr or something.

If you aren't a fan of his don't stick up for him. Let people be critical. They should be critical.

It was a bad move to add him, regardless of cost. its a roster spot and 20% of the rotation. And we weren't exactly short on options.

 

[Howie115]

My biggest issue with the signing is that Avila signed a guy like pelfrey so fast... without letting the market set. Its one thing to do that with top end free agents.. but you don't need to do that with a back end starter like pelfrey. it made no sense. there are still plenty of guys of his caliber or better available.

Legit criticism, as is Smitty's. I just don't think the Tigers' 2016 fortunes hinge on Pelfrey. He is a #5 starter who will only be in the #4 position because of Norris' youth.

 

[MiamiVice]

If you aren't a fan of his don't stick up for him. Let people be critical. They should be critical.

It was a bad move to add him, regardless of cost. its a roster spot and 20% of the rotation. And we weren't exactly short on options.

Dude.. you are wasting your energy complaining about a back of the rotation starter that is on a 2 yr deal. If it doesn't work out.. its not like they are stuck with him forever. If you can name who the 4th or 5th starter was on the WS winner in 2014 I would be impressed.. and my point is.. a back end starter is not a make or break part of the team. Its like complaining about Don Kelly.

 

[MiamiVice]

The Tigers made it to the world series in 2006 with Nate Robertson as the #4 and Zach Minor and Mike Maroth the #5. That is all I have to say about back end starters for today.

 

[broncosmitty]

Dude.. you are wasting your energy complaining about a back of the rotation starter that is on a 2 yr deal. If it doesn't work out.. its not like they are stuck with him forever. If you can name who the 4th or 5th starter was on the WS winner in 2014 I would be impressed.. and my point is.. a back end starter is not a make or break part of the team. Its like complaining about Don Kelly.

What are you doin'?

 

[Howie115]

Dude.. you are wasting your energy complaining about a back of the rotation starter that is on a 2 yr deal. If it doesn't work out.. its not like they are stuck with him forever. If you can name who the 4th or 5th starter was on the WS winner in 2014 I would be impressed.. and my point is.. a back end starter is not a make or break part of the team. Its like complaining about Don Kelly.

Ooooooooh ... be careful where you tread there. I think Smitty is Donnie K's biggest fan.

 

[MiamiVice]

What are you doin'?

wasting energy tuche..

 

[broncosmitty]

wasting energy tuche..

Do me a favor man, let people be critical from time to time.

I wouldn't notice your unrealistic hopes for JV, or Sanchez or whoever as much if my bitching wasn't impeded all the time. Lol

 

[MiamiVice]

Do me a favor man, let people be critical from time to time.

I wouldn't notice your unrealistic hopes for JV, or Sanchez or whoever as much if my bitching wasn't impeded all the time. Lol

LOL

Do you really think its unrealistic for Verlander to have a great season?

 

[Howie115]

I think the "realist" looks at things like some of the key stars' ages and the possibility of more DL time for one or two. That's legit.

But to expect the ridiculous volume of "things that went wrong" last year ... V-mart hitting .212 from the left side ... Sanchez giving up 29 HR after giving up 9 and 4 in his previous two Tiger seasons ... Verlander missing almost half the season ... Cabrera going on the DL for the first time in his career ... losing our opening day closer after 1 inning pitched ... Greene completely falling off a cliff (of course he wasn't as good as his first 3 starts, but no one expected the abomination that he was afterwards) ...

C'mon, a LOT of crap happened in one season. To expect that many bad things to happen again is pessimistic.

 

[Howie115]

And don't forget the Tigers' fire sale that occurred in late July. So the last two months of the season were even worse than they would have been had we kept Price, Soria and Cespedes.

 

[MiamiVice]

I think the "realist" looks at things like some of the key stars' ages and the possibility of more DL time for one or two. That's legit.

But to expect the ridiculous volume of "things that went wrong" last year ... V-mart hitting .212 from the left side ... Sanchez giving up 29 HR after giving up 9 and 4 in his previous two Tiger seasons ... Verlander missing almost half the season ... Cabrera going on the DL for the first time in his career ... losing our opening day closer after 1 inning pitched ... Greene completely falling off a cliff (of course he wasn't as good as his first 3 starts, but no one expected the abomination that he was afterwards) ...

C'mon, a LOT of crap happened in one season. To expect that many bad things to happen again is pessimistic.

greene had nerve issues in his elbow.. so i think that had a lot to do with the cliff.

 

[broncosmitty]

LOL

Do you really think its unrealistic for Verlander to have a great season?

Great yeah. I think that ship has sailed. (He set the bar high for himself. Great is relative.)

I do think he can be good, maybe very good again. But that's 2013 good, not 2012 or 2011 great. That's me being optimistic with him. Returning to 2013 form for an entire season would really impress me from him. (He did bring the walks back down to manageable. That's a huge step in the right direction. Especially as he ages.)

Sanchez I don't see as ever being overly good again. I'm not counting on him for anything close to 2013 production again. Just hope he isnt as bad as last year. Cuz he was real bad. Painfully bad a few times. Then poof, he was gone.

I will be surprised if VMart hits over 20 home runs in his career again.

I would be surprised if Gose ever has solid base running instincts.

These are all four guys who I like. Just being realistic.

JD Martinez has already surpassed anything Id ever hoped for out of him. And it's all to his credit. He clearly works at it. If someone had told me they expected very solid D and the numbers he's put, I woulda laughed. It's not like I think I'm never wrong here. I am, a lot.

 

[MiamiVice]

Feel free to judge my thoughts here.. but this is what I expect to see this year from the team

• Verlander will pitch 30 games and and have an era under 3.25 and will win 16+ games
• Zimmerman will have an era around 3.5 and will win 15+ games
• K Rod will save 35+ games and have an era around 3
• Miggy will hit 30+ HR and have 100 RBI while batting .330+ again
• Vmart will hit around .290 and will have 15 hr and 85+ RBI
• Kinlser will hit around .280 with 10+ hr
• JD will hit 40+ HR and hit around .280
• Castellanos will break out and have a BA over .280 and hit 20+ HR
• Maybin will start the majority of games in center and hit .280 with 10 HR
• Gose will start the majority of games in LF and hit .250 and steal 30 bags
• the bullpen will have a combined ERA under 3.70
• Norris will have an era under 3.5 and will win 10+ games
• Sanchez will have an era under 3.5 but will miss at least a month at some point
• Pelfrey will have an era around 4.5 and smitty will enjoy watching his starts
• Moya will end up starting the majority of games in LF after May and end up batting under .230 but will hit 15+ HR
• Iglesias will hit closer to .250
• McCann will hit .250 with 10 HR
• Fulmer will pitch out of the bullpen not the rotation this year
• Drew Verhagen and Justin Wilson will be the teams best relievers
• The Tigers will add a starter at the trade deadline and make a playoff push.

 

[broncosmitty]

I think the "realist" looks at things like some of the key stars' ages and the possibility of more DL time for one or two. That's legit.

But to expect the ridiculous volume of "things that went wrong" last year ... V-mart hitting .212 from the left side ... Sanchez giving up 29 HR after giving up 9 and 4 in his previous two Tiger seasons ... Verlander missing almost half the season ... Cabrera going on the DL for the first time in his career ... losing our opening day closer after 1 inning pitched ... Greene completely falling off a cliff (of course he wasn't as good as his first 3 starts, but no one expected the abomination that he was afterwards) ...

C'mon, a LOT of crap happened in one season. To expect that many bad things to happen again is pessimistic.

It was a perfect storm of sorts.

But guys like JV and Miggy had and still have nowhere to go but down health wise. And in turn, career wise. Their best is behind them. That doesn't mean there aren't good things in front of them though.

Do you view our starting pitching as better, similar or worse than at this time last year? Or even the pitching staff as a whole. (At this time last year being important. Not looking back at last year with all of its pitfalls.)

I say worse for the rotation. Same to slightly better for the staff as a whole. But I love KRod. So he sways things.

 

[MiamiVice]

These are all four guys who I like. Just being realistic.

JD Martinez has already surpassed anything Id ever hoped for out of him. And it's all to his credit. He clearly works at it. If someone had told me they expected very solid D and the numbers he's put, I woulda laughed. It's not like I think I'm never wrong here. I am, a lot.

Your definition of realistic if very similar to my definition of pessimistic.

 

[broncosmitty]

Your definition of realistic if very similar to my definition of pessimistic.

Lol.

Bad things happen.

 

[Howie115]

Do you view our starting pitching as better, similar or worse than at this time last year? Or even the pitching staff as a whole. (At this time last year being important. Not looking back at last year with all of its pitfalls.)

I say worse for the rotation. Same to slightly better for the staff as a whole. But I love KRod. So he sways things.

#1 -- Zimmerman < Price
#2 -- 2016 Verlander > 2015 Verlander
#3 -- 2016 Sanchez > 2015 Sanchez (only because he CAN'T be worse, good lord, I hope)
#4 -- Pelfrey = Simon
#5 -- Norris > Greene

IMHO of course, but I see it as overall better. I said in spring training last year that Simon only had one flukey-good season as a starter, and did not expect much from him (look it up), so that one is NOT 20/20 hindsight. I did expect more from Greene, but I also expect the same or better from Norris.

Based on what he showed me late last year (velocity up, walks down), I think Verlander still has one or two All-Star caliber seasons in him. No, not 2011-12 level seasons, but a couple of very good ones.

 

[MiamiVice]

Verlander 2016 = Price of 2015 - Verlander can put up the numbers price put up last year in detroit.. it wouldn't suprise anyone
Zimmerman 2016 > Sanchez 2015
Sanchez 2016 > Simon 2015
Norris > Greene
Lobstein = Pelfrey

Yes.. I think the rotation is much better than opening day of last year.. and to be honest.. the biggest deal is the bullpen. It is much better and that alone will help. Overall there is no way the team ERA is going to be bottom 5 in the league again without massive injuries.

 

[MiamiVice]

#1 -- Zimmerman < Price
#2 -- 2016 Verlander > 2015 Verlander
#3 -- 2016 Sanchez > 2015 Sanchez (only because he CAN'T be worse, good lord, I hope)
#4 -- Pelfrey = Simon
#5 -- Norris > Greene

IMHO of course, but I see it as overall better. I said in spring training last year that Simon only had one flukey-good season as a starter, and did not expect much from him (look it up), so that one is NOT 20/20 hindsight. I did expect more from Greene, but I also expect the same or better from Norris.

Based on what he showed me late last year (velocity up, walks down), I think Verlander still has one or two All-Star caliber seasons in him. No, not 2011-12 level seasons, but a couple of very good ones.

See.. the fact is that rotation never existed. Verlander didn't start until June. Lobstein was in the opening day rotation not Verlander.

The opening day starting rotation last year was

price
sanchez
simon
greene
lobstein