Early Niner draft thoughts

[numone9er]

I would be happy with Lattimore and Mathieu in the mid rounds (3 - 5). Lattimore needs to sit the year out but is expected to come back healthy. Mathieu would make a beast at nickle corner and kick returner.

I'm in favor of both as well. Mostly because they both have high ceilings and there won't be many roster spots opening this off season.

 

[Jikkle]

I have to disagree. Tolzien is useless IMO. So is Josh Johnson. Might as well forfeit the season with one of them at QB.

You can say that about almost every team that has to go to their backup if their starter goes down for an extended period of time.

Like CC said I think Tolzien would be a good Shaun Hill type that could keep you afloat if your starter went down for a couple of games.

I'm not opposed to drafting a QB if you can get a unpolished high upside guy in the later rounds but I wouldn't even look at QB in the early rounds when you can use those picks on far more important and immediate needs.

 

[TobyTyler]

You can say that about almost every team that has to go to their backup if their starter goes down for an extended period of time.

Like CC said I think Tolzien would be a good Shaun Hill type that could keep you afloat if your starter went down for a couple of games.

I'm not opposed to drafting a QB if you can get a unpolished high upside guy in the later rounds but I wouldn't even look at QB in the early rounds when you can use those picks on far more important and immediate needs.

I like what I've seen from Tolzein. He'll be a capable backup for Kaepernick next year

 

[Jikkle]

cause i'm thinking we'd trade up to 20th overall, 21st overall, 22nd overall. where you can get an even better prospect than 36th overall. the point is better prospect, not the final spot, so please don't miss the point.

are you turning this into a big argument? i already said this isn't meant to pound the table for a QB. this is meant for the low possibility this TOP prospect falls to us. how many times do i need to repeat it?

If a top prospect does fall to us then you sell the pick and get more draft picks out of it. Not every team that needs a QB is going to be in position to get one so if one slides then those teams will look to trade up to get one.

Even though he was taken 36th in 2011 if you had to do that draft all over again then CK is a top 10 pick. I would easily take CK over Locker, Ponder, Gabbert, and Dalton and personally I would take him over Cam but that's an interesting argument between those 2.

The only reason CK slid was he came from a smaller school that ran at the time what was considered a gimmicky offense and he was raw and unpolished. Even right now I would say he isn't as polished as this current rookie crop of Luck, RGIII, and Wilson.

 

[BINGO]

What is your scouting report for each, why do you think they should be drafted where they are? With a new baby in the house, I haven't watched as much college football this season as I normally do so this question isn't to pin your ass to the wall but really just curious as to what you have seen in them this season (or thus far) that would warrant a 1st or 2nd rd grade.

Ezekiel Ansah is listed as 6'6 and weighs 273lbs. He was in born in Ghana and tried several sports before settling on football a couple years ago. He's a former track star and the bottom line is that he is a freak of an athlete. He's still learning the game of football and his potential is almost limitless. In BYU's system (3-4 scheme), he has played NT, OLB, and DE. My assessment of him is that he would be capable of playing the 5-technique for us or use him as a rush LB opposite of Aldon. I'd much prefer him play the end though and use his speed, length, strength (he has the tools / those rare qualities and skill to get 9+ sacks at the end spot in a 3-4 scheme). He such a freak of an athlete scouts are making JPP comparisons - not saying he can do 20 consecutive cartwheels, but that is how much of an athlete he is for a DL. As I previously stated, he is extremely raw so it would take him at least year to (just like JPP) to adjust to playing in the pros - so he would back up RayMac and Justin in 2013 and provide solid depth. He is my number one rated 3-4 DEs by default - because the other players that I like better as 3-4ends would not be available by the time we pick in the 30s. Guys like Star Lotulelei, Jonathan Hankins, and Sheldon Richardson. Those players would work well for us but there is not a slight chance they would last in the late 20s.

Margus Hunt is a native of Estonia. He's on my short list of favorite players in this entire draft, not the best prospect but favorite. Similar to how many people on this board last year was cheering for Russel Wilson and claiming that he was on of their favs (not necessarily mean the best prospect at his respective position). Anyway...he is listed as 6-8⅛, 285lbs with an 82-inch wingspan and despite those long arms, he can still bench 225lbs 35/40 times . Earlier when I was discussing Ansah's physical prowess, well...when it comes to being a pure athlete Ansah wish he were that much of a freak ahtlete as Hunt is. Hunt has cleaned 384 pounds, snatched 345 and vertical jumped 36 inches, and reportedly runs a 4.60 forty. Like Ansah, Hunt excels in track & field - he won gold medals in the shot and discus at the 2006 World Junior Championships in Beijing, becoming the first junior athlete to ever achieve such a double. At the end of his junior year, he had blocked a total of 14 kicks adding 3 more this year to give him a career total of 17blocks. Seventeen!!! That's insane. His last game of the season (bowl game against Fresno) he put up a memorable performance that will undoubtedly cause his stock to rise by 2 rounds. There are going to be a lot of JJ Watt comparisons at the combine too which is going to annoying. He's not the player Watt was coming out of college. If a team selects him in the first round it would be because of his immense potential (if his instincts mathces his athletic prowess he would be Watt's twin). Hunt is too raw at this point and and I question his football instincts which scares me a bit. Not much but a bit. He should have been able to dominate OTs at will but many times he does not which is a big head scratcher to me? On the field, Hunt's performance doesn’t always match the lofty expectations his measurables invoke. I see him as a 3rd round prospect in which I would be willing to invest a 2nd round pick on. When it's all said and done he may even end up being selected in the late first (a team deep enough that can afford to gamble on a prospect to develop him right...!)

Shariff Floyd listed at 6'3 and weighs 298lbs. Floyd's ceiling to me would be similar to our version of Ray McDonald in terms of the way he projects and would play the position. Like RayMac, he'd be a very good starter with no accalades. Very unique skill set because he has the body of a DT but the mobility and strength of a DE. This dude lacks ideal initial burst off the line and does not have classic three-technique explosiveness; but he is very mobile and agile for his size. Shows above average quickness with his hands. He's rated as a late first rounder but I wouldn't be happy nor mad if we select him at our spot. I see no major difference between he and Bennie Logan of LSU who's now projected as a late 1st / early 2nd round pick. Logan has similar traits as Floyd, but Floyd is the better player at this point of their lives.

Dre, I have to cut down on this post because it is too large. I am breaking it up into parts...

 

[BINGO]

Ezekeil Ansah

Athleticism
+Explosive coming out of his stance, is able to rush with both power and speed
+Big prospect with long arms, very well filled out
+He’s able to transition from one rush move to another due to natural balance
+Uses great leg drive on his bull rush to walk to offensive lineman back into the pocket
+Phenomenal change of direction ability
+Rare blend of athleticism where he is just as good with his strength moves as he is with his speed moves
+Top-end speed to play LB if he was needed there, already drops into coverage and makes plays in coverage
+He has a great motor whether he’s chasing down the QB or chasing down a RB from the backside
+Delivers the blow when he hits you, he’s not a drag down tackler, when he hits you, you’re going down
+Natural bend around the edge to turn the corner and get to the QB
-Still learning how to play with his body type, at times still has an awkward moment where he’s not sure what to do with hands
-Lack of time in football has him struggle with some recognition plays where he will bite on fakes or take himself out of plays by design
-What position is he in the NFL? May need to add or lose weight moving forward

Intelligence/Effort
+Developing play reading ability, he showed a lot of growth in this area this year
+Does well to monitor the QB on his rush and if he breaks to run or winds up to throw Ansah reacts properly
+Never ending motor, he’s the kind of defender that is just as happy getting a QB sack as he is chasing down a WR 50 yards down the field who thought he was going to score easily
-Having only played football for three years his Awareness and Football IQ are lower than most prospects
-Struggles with some of the misdirection and zone read style of plays
-Will allow teams to take advantage of his up field pass rush by running draws to his side, until he counters it

Pass Rush
+Explosion out of his stance allows him to beat the OT to the spot whenever he wants
+When he uses his arms and hands properly he’s almost impossible to engage
+Generates a ton of power and strength through his lower body, is able to lift the OL almost completely out of his stance
+Can rush from the DE, DT, or OLB spots, could be a huge asset for a creative defensive coordinator
+His length presents a problem for most OT’s, even if you block him he still has the ability to get his long arms into the passing lanes
+Has begun understanding how to set up and utilize certain moves to counter what offenses are trying to do to him
+When he’s really feeling it, he’ll start using combination moves to get the OL moving one way just to beat him the opposite
+Seems to find that next gear when he has the QB in his sights
-When he is blocked effectively it’s often because he gets too high out of his stance
-His hand usage needs to get better when it comes to shedding blocks

Run Support
+With his speed he’s often able to shoot the gaps and make plays in the backfield
+Also uses his power to push the OL into the backfield and redirect running plays
+When he uses his long arms he is able hold up at the point of attack and then sheds the block to make the tackle
+Washes down the line effectively in pursuit of plays run the opposite direction, can get across the offensive lineman’s face with ease
+Quickness and change of direction ability help him v the smaller and more elusive backs
-Too inconsistent with his length and hands to be an elite run stopper, but he certainly has the potential
-Teams will run right at him on draws and misdirection because they know he will take himself out of plays

Technique
+No player in the draft, except maybe Damontre Moore, explodes like Ansah does out of his stance, picture perfect get-off
+Footwork is ideal, he’s always well balances and uses his feet to change direction quickly, rarely a false step or wasted movement
+Great tackler for a big guy, uses his long arms to wrap up the ball carrier and take him down
-Has long arms but doesn’t always use them properly
-Needs to stay low consistently off the snap, when he gets high he gets blocked
-Positional refinement, NFL teams will need to determine what he is moving forward (43 DE, 34 DE, 43 DT, 34 OLB) and then hammer him on technical ability for that position

Overview
Ansah is the hottest name on the draft market right now with people saying he’s going anywhere from the Top 5 to the Top 50. Ansah’s game stock is based mostly on potential and there is a lot of it. He’s a far better prospect than either Barkevious Mingo or Jarvis Jones, to me. He’s got a ceiling that no other prospect can touch in this DE class but that’s the key, this is all based on what he can be, not necessarily on what he is.

Ansah has only been playing football for three years and the growth he has shown as been remarkable. His basketball background has certainly paid dividends on the football field with his athleticism and length. However he’s still learning a lot about the game, and the next step in that will be learning more about the X’s and O’s and improving his awareness and football IQ.

There is little doubt in my mind that Ansah will be a successful defensive player in the NFL, I’m not sure what position that will be at just yet, but I don’t consider that to be a bad thing. This kid is so athletic and so good he could be successful at a myriad of positions. For the time being we’re going to leave him as a DE. He’s without a doubt going to be our top rated senior DE when the next position update comes and we’re really excited to see what he does in Mobile.

With Ansah’s Senior Bowl invite we’ll get to see him v. the best of the best for a full week. All eyes will be on Ansah as he goes up against OT’s like Eric Fisher and Oday Aboushi. He also will be playing alongside so other really athletic DE’s in guys like Jamie Collins and Margus Hunt. Both players should push Ansah to step his game up. Ansah’s Senior Bowl week will be the determining factor in whether he’s truly a Top 5 or Top 50 pick.

For us right now, I see him in the Top 32, I think he’s a first round prospect with the ability to go higher. I just need to see more technical ability from him first.

Scouting Notes
Ezekiel Ansah v. San Jose State
-Slant rush to the inside, then he spins back to the outside to space and gets a nice hit on Fales after he makes the throw
-Lots of natural power, really able to shed blocks at will
-Displaying his immense athleticism as he chases the QB out of bounds from the opposite side of the field
-When his technique is sound he’s nearly impossible to block one on one
-San Jose State has started letting the RB chip in order to help the RT
-Sheds block from RG and makes tackles on Eskridge[/I]

 

[BINGO]

Margus Hunt

Athleticism: Incredibly strong and athletic; reportedly runs a 4.7 and has a 36” vertical leap.

Block Shedding: Long arms are extremely useful in this area; can assume two-gap responsibilities.

Burst: Has a surprising burst off of the line of scrimmage given his size; can win the edge off the snap.

Character: No known character concerns, but is overaged (will be a 25 year-old rookie.)

Durability: Has appeared in 40 games over three years at SMU; recently underwent shoulder surgery.

Experience: Did not begin playing football until 2009 but has extensive collegiate experience.

Hand Use: Active and uses his hands effectively in order to prevent blockers from locking on.

Instincts: Gets off of the snap quickly but is susceptible to misdirection plays at times.

Motor: Plays with a high motor and is aggressive in pursuit against the pass as well as the run.

Production: Only 16.5 career tackles for loss and just 7.5 career sacks; has blocked ten kicks.

Rush Moves: Must add more rush moves; overly relies on his strength and athleticism (bull rush.)

Size: Massive (6’7”, 290), long-limbed lineman with an 82” wingspan; could potentially add bulk.

Strength: Very strong for a 4-3 defensive end; reportedly has benched 225 pounds 35 times.

Tackling: Effective, forceful hit-and-wrap tackler who uses his long arms to his advantage.

Versatility: Primarily a right end, but has also blocked 14 kicks on special teams units.

Summary: Hunt’s combination of size, strength, and athleticism will pique the interest of coaches looking for projects with high ceilings. He has tons of raw ability and a perfect frame for the position. Plays like a first-rounder at times, but his production has never matched his physical tools. Style of play and physical tools recall 2007 first-round pick Adam Carriker. Hunt lacks many pass rush moves, but has a nice inside knife ability. He has all the potential in the world, it just depends on how he uses it. Oh yeah, did I mention this kid ran a 4.7 before the first time he stepped on a football field? Despite his enormous 82 inch wingspan (got me droolin’) he benched 225 pounds 35 times and could turn that into upwards of 40 by the time he gets to the combine. He’s also a record setting kick blocker. He gets miraculous amounts of pressure for the scheme he plays in.

One issue is he really struggles to keep consistent pad levels. This leads to him getting blown off the ball by run blockers and he will be man-handled by NFL road graders if he doesn’t fix these issues. Hunt seems to lack ideal strength at the point of attack, which is probably due to his consistently poor pad level. He has decent closing speed, but he seems to get one hand on QBs and they just get away from him a lot.


Ideal Fit(s): 3-4 defensive end, 4-3 defensive end

 

[BINGO]

Sharrif Floyd

Has made the 2012 AP All-American Third Team!

The State of Sharrif Floyd | Draft Breakdown

 

[deep9er]

If a top prospect does fall to us then you sell the pick and get more draft picks out of it. Not every team that needs a QB is going to be in position to get one so if one slides then those teams will look to trade up to get one.

Even though he was taken 36th in 2011 if you had to do that draft all over again then CK is a top 10 pick. I would easily take CK over Locker, Ponder, Gabbert, and Dalton and personally I would take him over Cam but that's an interesting argument between those 2.

The only reason CK slid was he came from a smaller school that ran at the time what was considered a gimmicky offense and he was raw and unpolished. Even right now I would say he isn't as polished as this current rookie crop of Luck, RGIII, and Wilson.

again, if you already think Kaep is the "Qb of the future", no problem here.

let me present it in another matter, forget who we have now at QB......if we trade up to around 20th and Baalke/Harbaugh has identified a QB they feel is a perenial Pro Bowl QB, would you draft him? for some odd combination of reasons, this QB falls and he fits the 49ers to a "T". if they thought this guy was going to be elite like Brady, Peyton, or Rodgers, would you draft him?

 

[Bemular]

again, if you already think Kaep is the "Qb of the future", no problem here.

let me present it in another matter, forget who we have now at QB......if we trade up to around 20th and Baalke/Harbaugh has identified a QB they feel is a perenial Pro Bowl QB, would you draft him? for some odd combination of reasons, this QB falls and he fits the 49ers to a "T". if they thought this guy was going to be elite like Brady, Peyton, or Rodgers, would you draft him?

What the hell? How desperate are you to make your silly little hypothetical seem plausible? "If we approach this as if we don't have a QB?" Well duh, if we didn't have a QB then of course we would be looking for a QB.

However, the QB you are suggesting we trade up for and draft is on our roster now - remember the one we traded up for and drafted last year??

Why on earth would we spend draft picks to get another CK7. What part of his game after 7 starts do you feel warrants even thinking about drafting a QB this year?

 

[MHSL82]

again, if you already think Kaep is the "Qb of the future", no problem here.

let me present it in another matter, forget who we have now at QB......if we trade up to around 20th and Baalke/Harbaugh has identified a QB they feel is a perenial Pro Bowl QB, would you draft him? for some odd combination of reasons, this QB falls and he fits the 49ers to a "T". if they thought this guy was going to be elite like Brady, Peyton, or Rodgers, would you draft him?

Well, Brady was taken in the fifth round, so if we find a Brady there, take him. Develop and trade one. Rodgers was drafted 24th, so I suppose that's close to 32nd (not in draft terms, just numbers). So if we found someone with Rodgers outlook, I suppose - you could always develop and trade one. But I would not trade up for one and I'd be confused, forced to say, "I guess I trust Harbaugh" if they did draft a QB in the first two rounds. Third round, I don't know enough about drafts to comment.

 

[deep9er]

Well, Brady was taken in the fifth round, so if we find a Brady there, take him. Develop and trade one. Rodgers was drafted 24th, so I suppose that's close to 32nd (not in draft terms, just numbers). So if we found someone with Rodgers outlook, I suppose - you could always develop and trade one. But I would not trade up for one and I'd be confused, forced to say, "I guess I trust Harbaugh" if they did draft a QB in the first two rounds. Third round, I don't know enough about drafts to comment.

your opinion is fine, but mine is.........i wouldn't pass on someone i project as an "elite" QB. i would definitely trade up from 32nd to around 20th to nab him.

btw - just guessing at around 20th or 21st spot, no one can cite a specific spot right now.

anyway, not pounding the table we draft a QB, and low odds we find ourselves in this situation. but did want to mention it, is all. you should always evaluate your QB situation first and foremost, ensure it is the best you can make it.

 

[deep9er]

What the hell? How desperate are you to make your silly little hypothetical seem plausible? "If we approach this as if we don't have a QB?" Well duh, if we didn't have a QB then of course we would be looking for a QB.

However, the QB you are suggesting we trade up for and draft is on our roster now - remember the one we traded up for and drafted last year??

Why on earth would we spend draft picks to get another CK7. What part of his game after 7 starts do you feel warrants even thinking about drafting a QB this year?

not desparate at all, but when you're being questioned, you should be able to explain why? so i'm responding, not hammering it.

are you REALLY convinced CK is a "perenial Pro Bowler"? after six or so games, you're 100% sure he is an 'elite' QB? if so, fine.

 

[Bemular]

not desparate at all, but when you're being questioned, you should be able to explain why? so i'm responding, not hammering it.

are you REALLY convinced CK is a "perenial Pro Bowler"? after six or so games, you're 100% sure he is an 'elite' QB? if so, fine.

What part of his game after 7 starts do you feel warrants even thinking about drafting a QB this year?

 

[MHSL82]

What part of his game after 7 starts do you feel warrants even thinking about drafting a QB this year?

I'm with you on this. I understand the idea that you don't want to wait until after you find out your QB is not the guy to draft (example, if we didn't draft Kaep and Alex lost in divisional) and I understand the not passing an elite QB, I just don't think there is someone that will be available that is that mold, that Kaep isn't in that mold for sure, etc. Then, again, I'm not Harbaugh, so I guess Deep's covered by saying that if THEY find someone they think is better, then they should draft.

I guess the formula is:

((Elite prospect pre, during, and after development) - (Kaep during and after development)) + team) >< Kaep + (other drafted position - who we have at the position) + team.

 

[Bemular]

I'm with you on this. I understand the idea that you don't want to wait until after you find out your QB is not the guy to draft (example, if we didn't draft Kaep and Alex lost in divisional) and I understand the not passing an elite QB, I just don't think there is someone that will be available that is that mold, that Kaep isn't in that mold for sure, etc. Then, again, I'm not Harbaugh, so I guess Deep's covered by saying that if THEY find someone they think is better, then they should draft.

I guess the formula is:

((Elite prospect pre, during, and after development) - (Kaep during and after development)) + team) >< Kaep + (other drafted position - who we have at the position) + team.

Here is the only formula you need to know:

There is no such thing as an elite NFL QB in the college draft - there are elite college QB's in the college draft - and that is all. Whether those elite college prospects ever become elite NFL QB's is a high-stakes gamble based upon an educated guess that is wrong +90% of the time.

When you compare Kaps first 218 pass attempts vs. the first 218 pass attempts of any QB in the league today, he is among or better than the elites and that is without considering his running ability.

This notion that we should move up in the draft to take a QB is really quite silly and I expect Deep will high-tail it off the board without addressing my question. Or try to imply that I am stating Kap is an elite QB.

Depending on what Smith does and where our coaching staff believes Tolzien is with regard to moving up the depth I can see us taking a QB late but no way in hell does it make sense mortgage our needs at other positions to draft a QB we already have.

 

[Jikkle]

again, if you already think Kaep is the "Qb of the future", no problem here.

let me present it in another matter, forget who we have now at QB......if we trade up to around 20th and Baalke/Harbaugh has identified a QB they feel is a perenial Pro Bowl QB, would you draft him? for some odd combination of reasons, this QB falls and he fits the 49ers to a "T". if they thought this guy was going to be elite like Brady, Peyton, or Rodgers, would you draft him?

No, simply because I believe and Baalke/Harbaugh believe that CK is going to be a perennial Pro Bowl QB. They didn't select CK because he was a nice little pet project for them but someone they believed with some polishing could be an elite QB in the league.

Personally I believe CK is going to wind up being a top 5 QB in the league. He's the most physically gifted QB, he has the work ethic and demeanor you need by all accounts, but the only question really is how far he can take his game mentally. He clearly has work to do in that area but for a first year starter jumping in mid season I've been impressed in that area so far.

If there was a perennial Pro Bowl QB sitting in our laps then auction the pick off to the highest bidder because if that happens there are going to be a number of teams wanting in on that pick.

 

[numone9er]

I'm starting to wonder if we should try and trade our first round pick to a team that will likely have a high pick next year. I'd really love for us to have a chance to get Clowney and there really aren't that many guys I'm interested with our first round pick right now. However, that is taking a big risk, but one that might be worth it IMO.

 

[NinerSickness]

I'm starting to wonder if we should try and trade our first round pick to a team that will likely have a high pick next year. I'd really love for us to have a chance to get Clowney and there really aren't that many guys I'm interested with our first round pick right now. However, that is taking a big risk, but one that might be worth it IMO.

I think that's a great idea. I'd love t' do that.

 

[EKmane]

I'm starting to wonder if we should try and trade our first round pick to a team that will likely have a high pick next year. I'd really love for us to have a chance to get Clowney and there really aren't that many guys I'm interested with our first round pick right now. However, that is taking a big risk, but one that might be worth it IMO.

impossible!