POLL Lebron James and his all time ranking

[TJL]

Here you go

SportsHoopla's top 10 NBA players

 

[trojanfan12]

Lottery team
Lottery team + Lebron = Finals Appearances

Winning team
Winning team - Lebron = #1 Pick in the lottery

I am sick and tired of hearing about his lack of winning rings (despite having 3!!).
No player in history has ever affect a teams WIN/LOSS like Lebron James.

Other all time greats cannot measure up in this one key component of Lebron.
Jordan left the Bulls in 1993, and they were a foul call from the Finals.
Kareem left the Lakers in 1989, and they still went to the Finals.
The bucks had the exact same record they year after he left as his final year in Milwaukee.
Wilt left the 1968 team as 62 win team. The 69 group still had 57 wins.

The Lebron affect on WIN-LOSS has never been seen before in our history.

This is a bit of a false narrative. Lebron's teams have typically also lost a lot more than Lebron when he leaves.

When MJ retired in 1993, Scottie Pippen and most of the defending championship team returned.
When Kareem retired in 1989, the Lakers still had Magic, Worthy, Byron Scott, Michael Cooper, etc.
Basically the same with the Bucks when Kareem left and the 76ers when Wilt left.

When Lebron left Cleveland for Miami, 9 other players left as well.

When Lebron left the Heat, 8 other players also left and that was also the season where Chris Bosh missed 8 games from a strained calf and then was sidelined for the season after the all star break because his blood clot issue surfaced.

So, the fact is, we don't know how Cleveland or the Heat would have done had Lebron been all that they lost. Would they have performed as well as the teams that MJ, Kareem and Wilt left? Probably not, but I don't think they would have performed nearly as poorly as they did.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

This is a bit of a false narrative. Lebron's teams have typically also lost a lot more than Lebron when he leaves.

When MJ retired in 1993, Scottie Pippen and most of the defending championship team returned.
When Kareem retired in 1989, the Lakers still had Magic, Worthy, Byron Scott, Michael Cooper, etc.
Basically the same with the Bucks when Kareem left and the 76ers when Wilt left.

When Lebron left Cleveland for Miami, 9 other players left as well.

When Lebron left the Heat, 8 other players also left and that was also the season where Chris Bosh missed 8 games from a strained calf and then was sidelined for the season after the all star break because his blood clot issue surfaced.

So, the fact is, we don't know how Cleveland or the Heat would have done had Lebron been all that they lost. Would they have performed as well as the teams that MJ, Kareem and Wilt left? Probably not, but I don't they would have performed nearly as poorly as they did.

I remember Horns going on a rant defending Dwight as well. Can't hit them all out of the park.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

This is a bit of a false narrative. Lebron's teams have typically also lost a lot more than Lebron when he leaves.

When MJ retired in 1993, Scottie Pippen and most of the defending championship team returned.
When Kareem retired in 1989, the Lakers still had Magic, Worthy, Byron Scott, Michael Cooper, etc.
Basically the same with the Bucks when Kareem left and the 76ers when Wilt left.

When Lebron left Cleveland for Miami, 9 other players left as well.

When Lebron left the Heat, 8 other players also left and that was also the season where Chris Bosh missed 8 games from a strained calf and then was sidelined for the season after the all star break because his blood clot issue surfaced.

So, the fact is, we don't know how Cleveland or the Heat would have done had Lebron been all that they lost. Would they have performed as well as the teams that MJ, Kareem and Wilt left? Probably not, but I don't they would have performed nearly as poorly as they did.

This is a superstars game....Pointing out that some shitty insignificant players left when Lebron did, their impact had little to no effect...Ill give ya the Bosh injury part

But when Lebron first exited Cleveland, there wasnt a player on that roster that would have prevented them from being a lottery team, had they chosen to stay

 

[Hornsstampede2.0]

What is going to happen when the Lakers win 60 wins with him next year instead of 25?
The Brooklyn Nets would be in the Finals this year if Lebron joined their roster.

Jordan could not do dicksquat without a bunch of allstars on Chicago 1984-1988 and Washington 2001-03.
Lebron would have took those early Bulls teams to the Finals and the 2000s Wizards as well.

Nobody has ever had that kind of effect several times over.
He is the best ever at this often forgotten impact.

but, everyone gets so focused on WINNING RINGS.....(as if 3 rings was somehow zero).

 

[trojanfan12]

This is a superstars game....Pointing out that some shitty insignificant players left when Lebron did, their impact had little to no effect...Ill give ya the Bosh injury part

But when Lebron first exited Cleveland, there wasnt a player on that roster that would have prevented them from being a lottery team, had they chosen to stay

We don't know that. There were no other superstars, but there were some solid players. They definitely would have won more than 19 games.

Even with all of the guys they lost, if Bosh stays healthy, the Heat likely are a 2nd round exit at worst and may have seen Lebron in the ECF.

Lebron has left 2 teams which lost over half of their rosters when he left and people act like him leaving was the only difference year over year. It's nothing more than an attempt to artificially inflate his resume'.

 

[trojanfan12]

What is going to happen when the Lakers win 60 wins with him next year instead of 25?
The Brooklyn Nets would be in the Finals this year if Lebron joined their roster.

Jordan could not do dicksquat without a bunch of allstars on Chicago 1984-1988 and Washington 2001-03.
Lebron would have took those early Bulls teams to the Finals and the 2000s Wizards as well.

Nobody has ever had that kind of effect several times over.
He is the best ever at this often forgotten impact.

but, everyone gets so focused on WINNING RINGS.....(as if 3 rings was somehow zero).

lol @you now switching to speculation since facts didn't support your previous rant.

Lebron isn't on the Lakers, we don't know if he's even going to join them, let alone how many games they'll win. Additionally, if he does come to the Lakers, it will likely be with another top FA. Plus, the Lakers have some talented young players who will have another years experience. So, any improvement wouldn't be solely because of Lebron.

Lebron isn't on the Nets, so again, we don't know what they would do. It's also likely that if he went to the Nets, there would be another top FA going with him. So, once again, any improvement wouldn't be solely because of Lebron.

Lebron hasn't faced any teams like those Celtics and Pistons teams that MJ was trying to get through. Lebron likely doesn't have any more success than MJ did.

Also, MJ was 40 and had been out of the league for 3 years when he played for the Wizards.

There is no forgotten impact. There's just people distorting and ignoring facts trying to artificially inflate Lebron and it's not working anymore.

 

[tlance]

lol @you now switching to speculation since facts didn't support your previous rant.

Lebron isn't on the Lakers, we don't know if he's even going to join them, let alone how many games they'll win. Additionally, if he does come to the Lakers, it will likely be with another top FA. Plus, the Lakers have some talented young players who will have another years experience. So, any improvement wouldn't be solely because of Lebron.

Lebron isn't on the Nets, so again, we don't know what they would do. It's also likely that if he went to the Nets, there would be another top FA going with him. So, once again, any improvement wouldn't be solely because of Lebron.

Lebron hasn't faced any teams like those Celtics and Pistons teams that MJ was trying to get through. Lebron likely doesn't have any more success than MJ did.

Also, MJ was 40 and had been out of the league for 3 years when he played for the Wizards.

There is no forgotten impact. There's just people distorting and ignoring facts trying to artificially inflate Lebron and it's not working anymore.

LeBron had not faced any teams like the Celtics and Pistons?

I hope you are talking about in the East.

But, the flip side, like we have said before is that none of the teams MJ faced in the Finals were nearly as good as the Spur teams, let alone the last 2 Warrior squads.

 

[trojanfan12]

LeBron had not faced any teams like the Celtics and Pistons?

I hope you are talking about in the East.

Yes. In the East. There is nothing like those Celtics and Pistons teams in the East now.

But, the flip side, like we have said before is that none of the teams MJ faced in the Finals were nearly as good as the Spur teams, let alone the last 2 Warrior squads.

Agree about the Spurs, not as much about the Warriors. With the Warriors, it would depend on the rules the game was being played under. If it's the 90's rules, I'm taking pretty much any of the teams the Bulls faced over the Warriors.

I'd take those Spurs teams against any of those teams, in either era though, because they could play pretty much any style you threw at them.

 

[Black Adam]

lol @you now switching to speculation since facts didn't support your previous rant.

Lebron isn't on the Lakers, we don't know if he's even going to join them, let alone how many games they'll win. Additionally, if he does come to the Lakers, it will likely be with another top FA. Plus, the Lakers have some talented young players who will have another years experience. So, any improvement wouldn't be solely because of Lebron.

Lebron isn't on the Nets, so again, we don't know what they would do. It's also likely that if he went to the Nets, there would be another top FA going with him. So, once again, any improvement wouldn't be solely because of Lebron.

Lebron hasn't faced any teams like those Celtics and Pistons teams that MJ was trying to get through. Lebron likely doesn't have any more success than MJ did.

Also, MJ was 40 and had been out of the league for 3 years when he played for the Wizards.

There is no forgotten impact. There's just people distorting and ignoring facts trying to artificially inflate Lebron and it's not working anymore.

too many folks out there wanna puff him up like he's some sort of god, so...

 

[msgkings322]

too many folks out there wanna puff him up like he's some sort of god, so...

And too many folks wanna tear him down like he ain't shit.

I know people don't like the guy, but to me he's more likeable than MJ. He's flawed but he's a good person, not a total dick like Mike. And we are watching one of the all time dominant greats in real time, it's exactly like watching MJ dominate for so long.

He's the most polarizing superstar ever and that includes Kobe. Just don't get the hate.

 

[tlance]

Yes. In the East. There is nothing like those Celtics and Pistons teams in the East now.



Agree about the Spurs, not as much about the Warriors. With the Warriors, it would depend on the rules the game was being played under. If it's the 90's rules, I'm taking pretty much any of the teams the Bulls faced over the Warriors.

I'd take those Spurs teams against any of those teams, in either era though, because they could play pretty much any style you threw at them.

You assuming the Warriors couldn't is a mistake. There has never been a greater collection of talent and the pieces fit together seemlessly. I don't care who's rules you play by, I am taking the warriors.

I can understand some won't agree, but the '17 Warriors are the greatest team ever IMO, and it isn't that close. I can maybe understand taking the Bulls over the '17 Warriors, but any of their opponents? Cmon man. That is ridiculous. Hand checking doesn't make that much difference.

 

[tlance]

And too many folks wanna tear him down like he ain't shit.

I know people don't like the guy, but to me he's more likeable than MJ. He's flawed but he's a good person, not a total dick like Mike. And we are watching one of the all time dominant greats in real time, it's exactly like watching MJ dominate for so long.

He's the most polarizing superstar ever and that includes Kobe. Just don't get the hate.

Right and wrong.

Right that Mike was a total dick. Wrong that LeBron is more likeable. That isn't even close. Mike was one of the most likeable athletes in the history of sports even though he was also a huge dick. People loved him. LeBron is lot very likeable at all even though he is probably a much nicer person than MJ. Likeability of the 2 players plays a huge role in these debates.

 

[msgkings322]

Right and wrong.

Right that Mike was a total dick. Wrong that LeBron is more likeable. That isn't even close. Mike was one of the most likeable athletes in the history of sports even though he was also a huge dick. People loved him. LeBron is lot very likeable at all even though he is probably a much nicer person than MJ. Likeability of the 2 players plays a huge role in these debates.

It's also extremely subjective. I liked Mike (just as the song said), but I like LeBron too. LeBron is funnier, and just an all around better person. I like him more.

Besides, likeability isn't really that important. Kareem is a prickly dude that not many fans liked or loved, and he's consensus top 3-4.

 

[tlance]

lol @you now switching to speculation since facts didn't support your previous rant.

Lebron isn't on the Lakers, we don't know if he's even going to join them, let alone how many games they'll win. Additionally, if he does come to the Lakers, it will likely be with another top FA. Plus, the Lakers have some talented young players who will have another years experience. So, any improvement wouldn't be solely because of Lebron.

Lebron isn't on the Nets, so again, we don't know what they would do. It's also likely that if he went to the Nets, there would be another top FA going with him. So, once again, any improvement wouldn't be solely because of Lebron.

Lebron hasn't faced any teams like those Celtics and Pistons teams that MJ was trying to get through. Lebron likely doesn't have any more success than MJ did.

Also, MJ was 40 and had been out of the league for 3 years when he played for the Wizards.

There is no forgotten impact. There's just people distorting and ignoring facts trying to artificially inflate Lebron and it's not working anymore.

To be fair,

The Bulls were not close to being ready to win when MJ was trying to get through the Celtics. They were better during the Piston's reign, but still not ready. The '91 Bulls were a lot better than '90 version. Support players grew up a lot and MJ was a lot better at involving teammates.

The Pistons timed their apex very well. Had their peak occurred at the same time as the Lakers/Celtics peaks or the 90s Bulls, chances are we would be categorizing them with the Ewing Knick teams.

The Pistons were a very good team, but on a list of teams with multiple championships since 1980, they rank close to the bottom for me. Somewhere in the tier with the LeBron Heat and the Kobe/Pau Lakers. Granted, there are some impressive teams in that list, but they were not an all time great team IMO.

 

[tlance]

It's also extremely subjective. I liked Mike (just as the song said), but I like LeBron too. LeBron is funnier, and just an all around better person. I like him more.

Besides, likeability isn't really that important. Kareem is a prickly dude that not many fans liked or loved, and he's consensus top 3-4.

But, a lot of people dislike LeBron. That is fact.

If Kareem played in the social media era that might not be so true. People didn't have access to him like they do to LeBron. That increased access amplifies people feelings toward him, both positive and negative.

Also, I feel like time will benefit LeBron. 20 years from now, people will forget about whether or not they liked him personally and his resume will speak for itself. Not saying that will put him ahead of MJ, but the not top 5 BS some claim will be totally gone.

 

[msgkings322]

But, a lot of people dislike LeBron. That is fact.

If Kareem played in the social media era that might not be so true. People didn't have access to him like they do to LeBron. That increased access amplifies people feelings toward him, both positive and negative.

Also, I feel like time will benefit LeBron. 20 years from now, people will forget about whether or not they liked him personally and his resume will speak for itself. Not saying that will put him ahead of MJ, but the not top 5 BS some claim will be totally gone.

I know they do, that's why I said he's the most polarizing superstar ever. Lots of love, lots of hate. More hate than guys like MJ and Kobe, and I don't get it.

But I agree over time the hate will fade a fair amount

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

I know they do, that's why I said he's the most polarizing superstar ever. Lots of love, lots of hate. More hate than guys like MJ and Kobe, and I don't get it.

But I agree over time the hate will fade a fair amount

You saying MJ and Kobe didn't get as much hate as lebron?

Gotta call BS on that one.

 

[tlance]

You saying MJ and Kobe didn't get as much hate as lebron?

Gotta call BS on that one.

Kobe did. But for much better reasons.

MJ did not. Not even close.

 

[Rock Strongo]

glad to see this is still going