What if MJ jumped around from superteam to superteam?

[ATL96Steeler]

LMAO.......Naaah, Im just following the breadcrumbs

Oh...there were always conspiracy theories out there that kinda support what you say...I think it is common knowledge that his dad was a gambler himself, and most likely got caught up in something he couldn't get out of...paid the ultimate price.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Love/Irving are playing good enough ball that as long as they get contribution enough from Smith TT the bench they would definitely make the finals, if they just have an injured Celtics, Raptors team and the Pacers in round 1. They wouldn't Sweep but they would ultimately get through it.

Maybe and that's a pretty big maybe.

Playoffs, no question...finals...idk about that.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Love/Irving are playing good enough ball that as long as they get contribution enough from Smith TT the bench they would definitely make the finals, if they just have an injured Celtics, Raptors team and the Pacers in round 1. They wouldn't Sweep but they would ultimately get through it.

Here is what you need to understand about basketball, maybe you do, and youre just playing dumb in support for your anti-Lebron agenda

When you have an all time great like Lebron, it does wonders for the games of everyone around him, especially very good players like Love and Kyrie....

So you cant say that "the way Love and Kyrie are playing", because without Lebron, and with FAAAAAR more focus on them defensively, you cant quantify what they would be doing

The only evidence we have is that Kyrie and Love played a grand total of ZERO postseason games in their careers prior to Lebron arriving....Love had a very large sampling in Minnesota, and when Kyrie was the star in Cleveland, they won enough to get the #1 pick in the draft

 

[shopson67]

Well MJ had a good enough team in Chicago that he didn't have to jump around to truly contend, for LeBron to actually make a trip to the finals and keep his team among the best in the NBA for years during his first run in Cleveland with the supporting cast he had was impressive. The way he left with "The Decision" was dumb imo, but he might have won 1 title with that group instead of the 3 he has now. I hate super teams and want a competitive league, but he had a better chance to succeed elsewhere and went for it. The Miami team with Wade and Bosh might have made a few finals trips without LeBron but doubt they actually win a title and the Cavs now might have still been in the lottery without him considering how bad the Kyrie led team was before he returned. Also the KD situation is much different, he went to a team that was heavily favored to win the West and possibly the title this year without him joining.

Jordan didn't make the finals until '91, his 7th season at age 28. LeBron jumped ship after 7 seasons after making the finals in his 4th season at age 22. Lebron, like Durant, chose the path of least resistance. Bosh (and especially Ray Allen) likely don't join the Cavs without Lebron, leaving Wade in lottery hell.

Don't get it twisted about his return to Cleveland either. He could see the end coming for Wade/Bosh and took off to join up with the high draft picks like Kyrie and Wiggins (who became Love via trade) and some other poor draft choices that the Cavs got essentially for losing Lebron in the first place. Lebron brought several role players with him to flesh out that team as well. He wasn't joining a lottery team; he was joining a few young stars and jettisoned the rest of that team, not unlike joining the bare bones of the Heat.

 

[shopson67]

Love/Irving are playing good enough ball that as long as they get contribution enough from Smith TT the bench they would definitely make the finals, if they just have an injured Celtics, Raptors team and the Pacers in round 1. They wouldn't Sweep but they would ultimately get through it.

Love wouldn't be there without Lebron. The Wiggins trade would never have happened.

 

[shopson67]

Think he was talking Kyrie/Love, who had a combined zero playoff games played prior to Lebron

Exactly. Before joining the Cavs and riding coattails, Love was essentially Shareef Abdur-Rahim, a good player with inflated stats from playing on a bad team.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Jordan didn't make the finals until '91, his 7th season at age 28. LeBron jumped ship after 7 seasons after making the finals in his 4th season at age 22. Lebron, like Durant, chose the path of least resistance. Bosh (and especially Ray Allen) likely don't join the Cavs without Lebron, leaving Wade in lottery hell.

Don't get it twisted about his return to Cleveland either. He could see the end coming for Wade/Bosh and took off to join up with the high draft picks like Kyrie and Wiggins (who became Love via trade) and some other poor draft choices that the Cavs got essentially for losing Lebron in the first place. Lebron brought several role players with him to flesh out that team as well. He wasn't joining a lottery team; he was joining a few young stars and jettisoned the rest of that team, not unlike joining the bare bones of the Heat.

So we wanted Lebron to do what no star in any sport has ever done? Go join the worst possible situation in the sport, just to prove to the world he is great?

Who does that? He joined the team with the worst record in the NBA and still gets shit for it

Revisionist history is wonderful.....Think Jordan wasnt behind recruiting Rodman? One of the greatest rebounders in history? Think he wasnt behind bringing in Toni Kukoc? Who at the time was one the biggest "Gets" in the history of international free agenecy?

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Exactly. Before joining the Cavs and riding coattails, Love was essentially Shareef Abdur-Rahim, a good player with inflated stats from playing on a bad team.

I kinda felt the same about Bosh in Toronto, but thats another argument

 

[shopson67]

So we wanted Lebron to do what no star in any sport has ever done? Go join the worst possible situation in the sport, just to prove to the world he is great?

Who does that? He joined the team with the worst record in the NBA and still gets shit for it

Revisionist history is wonderful.....Think Jordan wasnt behind recruiting Rodman? One of the greatest rebounders in history? Think he wasnt behind bringing in Toni Kukoc? Who at the time was one the biggest "Gets" in the history of international free agenecy?

I didn't say any of that. Jordan stayed with his team and they built around him throughout the years. Lebron got antsy and jumped ship twice to try to short-cut the process. He still only has half of Jordan's rings to show for it.

 

[shopson67]

I kinda felt the same about Bosh in Toronto, but thats another argument

Sure, I can see that. I think Bosh is a better player overall and was largely misused by the Heat, but they're in the same discussion.

 

[Battlelyon]

The Heat never won anything without him? Shaq/Wade championship team ring a bell?

Lebron ran from his hometown team to join Wade's Heat with Bosh. Smart move, but also shows some weakness at least in his personal confidence.

I was clearly talking about the Cavs,

 

[shopson67]

I was clearly talking about the Cavs,

Doesn't change the fact that he then jumped ship from the aging Heat team to join forces with young talent the Cavs had accumulated for losing him in the first place. He forced the Cavs into rebuilding, which the league (and the lottery process if you trust that, some don't) rewarded with multiple high lottery picks, then came back (with good timing of course) to reap the benefits.

Do you honestly think Lebron comes back to the Cavs if they had drafted Derrick Williams instead of Kyrie? Or if they didn't have Wiggins to trade for Love? It was bad enough they drafted Bennett.

 

[DorianRo]

Exactly. Before joining the Cavs and riding coattails, Love was essentially Shareef Abdur-Rahim, a good player with inflated stats from playing on a bad team.

Yes.. So Love should be downgraded because he played on a CRAPPY team all those years in Minnesota. The point is, you combine them all together, obviously their gonna be deadly ESPECIALLY when the East can hardly find good to great teams and where injuries have been an issue in that conference for YEARS

 

[Battlelyon]

Doesn't change the fact that he then jumped ship from the aging Heat team to join forces with young talent the Cavs had accumulated for losing him in the first place. He forced the Cavs into rebuilding, which the league (and the lottery process if you trust that, some don't) rewarded with multiple high lottery picks, then came back (with good timing of course) to reap the benefits.

Do you honestly think Lebron comes back to the Cavs if they had drafted Derrick Williams instead of Kyrie? Or if they didn't have Wiggins to trade for Love? It was bad enough they drafted Bennett.

The Cavs were the worst team in the NBA, Kevin Love didn't even join the team to after LeBron came back.

 

[DorianRo]

The point is once the going gets tough, LeBron gets going. Once Cleveland landed the #1 pick in Wiggins, LeBron knew he had a bargaining chip to get a 3rd wheel in Cleveland and saw the knees of Dwayne Wade and was like "fuck it, I'm jumping off this sinking ship". No one with a straight face can say the sole reason LeBron left Miami was for a "homecoming. Not without 99 percent of the pieces in place before going.

 

[shopson67]

The Cavs were the worst team in the NBA, Kevin Love didn't even join the team to after LeBron came back.

Not the worst team, but won the lottery (again). The Magic and Hornets had lesser records. Of course Love didn't join the team until Lebron came, I noted the Wiggins trade. That was at Lebron's behest.

 

[shopson67]

Yes.. So Love should be downgraded because he played on a CRAPPY team all those years in Minnesota. The point is, you combine them all together, obviously their gonna be deadly ESPECIALLY when the East can hardly find good to great teams and where injuries have been an issue in that conference for YEARS

Love as a 3rd or 4th option is great. Love was being praised as a 1st or 2nd option at the time, as such overrated.

 

[RobToxin]

So we wanted Lebron to do what no star in any sport has ever done? Go join the worst possible situation in the sport, just to prove to the world he is great?

Who does that? He joined the team with the worst record in the NBA and still gets shit for it

Revisionist history is wonderful.....Think Jordan wasnt behind recruiting Rodman? One of the greatest rebounders in history? Think he wasnt behind bringing in Toni Kukoc? Who at the time was one the biggest "Gets" in the history of international free agenecy?

Not to mention the termination of Doug Collins and subsequent hiring of Phil Jackson.

Just like LeBron, Jordan forced a coaching change as well.

 

[flyerhawk]

Exactly. Before joining the Cavs and riding coattails, Love was essentially Shareef Abdur-Rahim, a good player with inflated stats from playing on a bad team.

Yeah. Love is a good player. All-star caliber when he is playing well. Certainly not an elite player.

 

[DorianRo]

Here is what you need to understand about basketball, maybe you do, and youre just playing dumb in support for your anti-Lebron agenda

When you have an all time great like Lebron, it does wonders for the games of everyone around him, especially very good players like Love and Kyrie....

So you cant say that "the way Love and Kyrie are playing", because without Lebron, and with FAAAAAR more focus on them defensively, you cant quantify what they would be doing

The only evidence we have is that Kyrie and Love played a grand total of ZERO postseason games in their careers prior to Lebron arriving....Love had a very large sampling in Minnesota, and when Kyrie was the star in Cleveland, they won enough to get the #1 pick in the draft

Yes they make your job easier but the Fact is, Cavs would STILL Probably get through the draw. Heres what you don't seem to get. When you factor in injuries to Toronto and the Celtics to key plays, and how erratic and nutty the Pacers are, that Draw is WEAK and BAD.

Take Lebron off the team, how isn't Irving, Love, TT, Smith, Korver, and other guys, thats more than enough to get through injured Raptors, Injured Celtics (who without IT doesn't even have a good enough scorer.)

Which is probably why I believe the Cavs settle for 2nd seed. (You think that was by accident?) They knew getting the 2nd seed meant an EASIER trip to the finals and they were right 100 percent hands down.


Cavs didn't take the #1 seed because they know the Bulls/Wizards were their toughest opponents.
Lebron will be needed for the finals but ultimately was NOT needed to get through the teams they have played so far..