Poll} The Greatest Defensive Player In History ?...

[GNG]

any proof?

Another stupid comment by you.

 

[BallsOfFurry]

Haynes was great but he played in an Era where you could use your hands a lot more and the PI rules were far more lax. That's why these debates are fun. Game is different in every era.

Haynes was the best I ever saw at mirroring every move a receiver made, you might be confusing him with Lester Hayes. Haynes is the only tall corner ( 6'2'') I've seen who could stick to great receivers in man coverage from whistle to whistle.

 

[darken65]

Another stupid comment by you.

So none then...cool.

 

[rmilia1]

He's in the top 10 but not the best in my opinion.

Well that's progress. We've moved from "decent" to top 10. I'll take it lol

 

[Nosferatu]

Very underrated player for sure. His 2006 season should go down as one of the best performances by a CB ever. I think if I remember right he had more interceptions than actual catches given up that year. Throw in during his time he was one of the best tackling CB's in the league. Even with teams not throwing at him that season he still contributed 86 tackles which is unheard of for most CB's.

Agreed, right after Lester Hayes' 1980.

 

[USCDoom]

Uh huh....Jack Ham: More first team all pro selections than Brooks, more interceptions (in an era where they passed far less) than Brooks, the NFL DPOY for 1975, a member of the all decade team of the 1970's and a member of the all time 75 year anniversary team.

Sure...completely delusional......to a Tampa Bay Buc fan.

Who is the All Time Leader in INT and when did he play?
NFL All-Time Interceptions Leaders - National Football League - ESPN
You notice how many Old Player are on that List. So NO CB should have ever made the Hall of Fame for the past 20 years as they could not even pass OLD CB who played in the OLD Era.

I guess Dick Lane would have had 130 INTs had he played when Deion Did...


Also he played when there were 26 or 28 teams, Brooks played all but one year with 30, 31, and 32 Teams. Lets not alos gloss over the fact there was about 1,000,000x more Offensive Talent in Brooks day that Hams. In Hams day the best players were put in Defense, in Brooks day the best player were on Offense.

All Pro Selections
Brooks = 9
Ham = 8

Pro Bowl
Brooks = 11
Ham = 8

 

[BallsOfFurry]

Agreed, right after Lester Hayes' 1980.

Hayes might not be able to make it in today's game. He was all about being very physical, today a CB can't get away with the things he did. He might be a SS today.
He was an amazing contrast to Mike Haynes when they played together in Oakland.

 

[mcnabb7542]

Reggie White all day long!

 

[Rock Strongo]

i'm going with andre tippett, my childhood favorite player and the most dominant guy of his era not named LT.

153 games, 100 sacks (10 seasons, i dont count his rookie years limited appearances). thats 53 more games played than sacks, or .653 sacks per game.

For comparison sake, LT had 132.5 sacks in 184 games. LT played nearly 13 full seasons to tippets 10.5 lets call it. LT had 51 more games played than sacks, or .720 sacks per game.

19 FR for tippett. (LT had 11)

andre was also the ONLY NE defensive player worth a shit (may add vincent brown in his short time here), and was constantly double teamed.


same class, same era.

 

[Hank Kingsley]

i'm going with andre tippett, my childhood favorite player and the most dominant guy of his era not named LT.

153 games, 100 sacks (10 seasons, i dont count his rookie years limited appearances). thats 53 more games played than sacks, or .653 sacks per game.

For comparison sake, LT had 132.5 sacks in 184 games. LT played nearly 13 full seasons to tippets 10.5 lets call it. LT had 51 more games played than sacks, or .720 sacks per game.

19 FR for tippett. (LT had 11)

andre was also the ONLY NE defensive player worth a shit (may add vincent brown in his short time here), and was constantly double teamed.


same class, same era.

Tippet was good for sure.

I'd still take LT though.

 

[Rock Strongo]

Tippet was good for sure.

I'd still take LT though.

LT had more room to work. that giants D had other guys you had to worry about too.

andre was a one man defense.

 

[Hank Kingsley]

LT had more room to work. that giants D had other guys you had to worry about too.

andre was a one man defense.

No argument.

Still take LT though.

 

[jarntt]

This is a very short answer...LT

 

[jarntt]

LT had more room to work. that giants D had other guys you had to worry about too.

andre was a one man defense.

Yet, even with all of those other guys to worry about he at times saw 3 guys trying to block him. That's how good he was...

 

[jarntt]

No argument.

Still take LT though.

And not even close

 

[Rock Strongo]

Yet, even with all of those other guys to worry about he at times saw 3 guys trying to block him. That's how good he was...

LT was in NY and on a winner. he got more fanfare.

LT was the 2nd overall pick
tippett was a second rounder

LT's game was a bit more well rounded, as he was good in coverage as well. tippet wasnt. i will admit that much. for everything LT did better, andre was close...like sacks, sacks per game, FDR, etc.

 

[jarntt]

no shame not being as good as LT. IMO Tippet isn't even anywhere near close. But opinions vary. I do think he was a very good player.

 

[Rock Strongo]

no shame not being as good as LT. IMO Tippet isn't even anywhere near close. But opinions vary. I do think he was a very good player.

yeah, i grew up watching (or rather, watching road games and listening to home games) tippett.

i see tippett differently than others not from here i guess. he was the LT of the AFC.

i always defer to this:

Andre Tippett: In the words of...



Andre Tippett
Tippett on his career being compared to that of Hall of Fame New York Giants linebacker Lawrence Taylor:

"Well, you know, I think that at every step that we all have gone through in high school football, college, we've all had somebody that you look to, as, 'OK, this is a guy that's considered to be the very best at the position. OK, well, what do I need to do to be considered or mentioned in the same breath.'

"It's a known fact that I've been referred to as the LT of the AFC -- or AT is the LT of the AFC -- to me, it's all the same. I have so much respect for Lawrence Taylor. I think what he did, he opened a lot of doors for a lot of other guys to come into the league. Guys were measured up against him. We want to get us an LT, we want to get us an Andre Tippett, we want to run a 3-4 defense. I think it was just like any great running back -- they look at the other great running backs, what running style have they done, how can I emulate that.

"He was an amazing athlete, and I have nothing but respect for Lawrence Taylor, and I think that when it's all said and done, I think it just goes down as Lawrence Taylor was one of the greatest and Andre Tippett was one of the greats and one of the greatest, so it really doesn't matter now because we are all in the same place."

Teammate Steve Nelson
Nelson, a three-time Pro Bowl linebacker who played on the left side with Tippett, on how his teammate's knowledge of martial arts helped make him a dominant defender:

"Oh, he was a black belt, I don't know what discipline, but he was the real deal. He was just a nightmare matchup for an offensive lineman because of his quickness ... Put together all that ability with his desire to be the best, that is why he made as many plays as he did. I think he was probably one of the first guys that was really into the martial arts, which helped him gain leverage, know his body, and be able to get his opponent off balance. I think he was probably the best at it."


Opponent Dwight Stephenson
Former Miami Dolphins center Stephenson on the unique challenge of matching up against Tippett:

"We always wanted to know where he was. When you are trying to protect the quarterback, sometimes our free man we would always use to keep an eye on him because you know he is the guy that can give an offensive lineman a lot of problems.

"I remember one time he came over by me at the center position, and it was a relatively easy block for me. He was rushing the passer, and I felt pretty good. But the guy got under me and gave me a heck of a run. The next time, I was really geared for him, and again he gave me a lot of problems. I tried to cut him, but he was too difficult to knock off his feet."

 

[Rock Strongo]

an addition:

On the field, he had 100 sacks from 1982-93, missing the 1989 season with a shoulder injury. Taylor started a year earlier with the New York Giants and also retired after the 1993 season, finishing with 132½ sacks.

Both were strong, speedy and nonstop workers — Tippett in the AFC, Taylor in the NFC.

But Taylor was a more flamboyant personality who played in the New York media spotlight and was on two Super Bowl winners. The quieter Tippett, a black belt in karate, started playing for the Patriots when they were two decades away from dominating the NFL with three titles in four years.

"I think they were in the same class" as players, said quarterback Steve Grogan, Tippett's teammate from 1982-90. "I don't think he got the attention because he wasn't media friendly like Taylor was and we weren't winning championships like Taylor was.

"So I don't think people really gave him the attention he probably deserved, until now."

Tippett, a star at Iowa, was drafted in the second round, 41st overall, in 1982 and played mostly on special teams as a rookie. Taylor was the second player drafted in 1981 and made the Pro Bowl as a rookie.

Tippett started 12 games in 1983, then piled up 18½ and 16½ sacks the next two seasons, the two highest single-season totals in Patriots history.

He had 9½ in 1986, Marv Levy's first as coach of the Buffalo Bills, who played New England twice each season.

"I never remember him taking a play off," Levy said. "Most of the great ones have a great motor and that is what I remember most about him."

Grogan saw that in practice.

"Great size, speed and leverage, practiced hard," he said. "The guy who always practiced the hardest was (Patriots guard) John Hannah and that's why he's in the Hall of Fame, and Tippett would be a close second. He went full bore all the time.

"If you were game-planning against him, you'd have to know where he was, very similar to Lawrence Taylor," Grogan said. "If you didn't, he was going to make a play on you."

Tippett relied more on power than finesse. Taylor was more athletic and would elude blockers as well as overpower them.

Don Blackmon saw that playing outside linebacker on the opposite side from Tippett.

"It may seem crazy to say this, but Tip was more of a brute," said Blackmon, who plans to be at the induction ceremony. "He was not a thinking man's linebacker. He would just want to crush you and run over you.

"He just played the game with so much intensity. I can remember times getting my own sack and he'd be so excited he'd slap me on the head three or four times."

Tippett's best team was the 1985 Patriots. They went to the Super Bowl, but were routed by the Chicago Bears 46-10. They had winning records the next three years before going 5-11 in 1989, starting the streak of five losing seasons.

"He put up some good numbers when he had people around him," Grogan said. "That's what great players do."

Tippett made five straight Pro Bowls and led the AFC in sacks twice. He was chosen to the NFL's All-Decade Team of the 1980s.

Taylor made 10 Pro Bowls and was picked for the NFL's 75th anniversary team in 1994.

"It's a known fact that I've been referred to as the LT of the AFC," Tippett said. "He opened a lot of doors for a lot of other guys to come into the league. Guys were measured up against him — we want to get us an LT, we want to get us an Andre Tippett."

On Saturday, the Hall of Fame will have both.

 

[jarntt]

"yeah, i grew up watching (or rather, watching road games and listening to home games) Tippett. "
Thankfully they killed that rule. So unfair to local fans of teams that struggle and such a dumb idea in the long run. How can you build up a weak fan base by blacking out half of their games?