You are the owner. How do you rebuild?

[TDs3nOut]

Actually you do have to give Elway some credit because there was considerable doubt as to whether Manning would still be able to play at a high level if at all.

He's proven to be gutsy, but the real challenge for Elway will be after Manning hangs it up...then you'll find out what kind a GM he is.

Yeah, my post was flippant and you raise some good points. No one knew whether or not Manning's health would allow him to even play again, let alone play at the level at which he has played.

Aside from that good fortune, however, I do think that Elway has done quite well in the draft and free agency so far.

 

[broncosmitty]

Get John Elway to run the show. Then sign Peyton Manning.

'twas a good time watching John root against his own team, in the playoffs, just to rid himself of Tebow.

He might be one Horsefaced ugly bastard, but he ain't stupid.

 

[TDs3nOut]

'twas a good time watching John root against his own team, in the playoffs, just to rid himself of Tebow.

He might be one Horsefaced ugly bastard, but he ain't stupid.

LOL I've heard that theory advanced, but I've never bought it.

 

[Iggloo]

It is hard to answer this question in the abstract. But if you are asking me about teams like, say, the Jets or Bears, I think you need to fire a lot of people, from the GM to the coach to key players. You need a culture change.

In the case of the Jets, the front office and coaching staff needs a complete house cleaning. You have to start from scratch on offense and probably on defense too because some of those guys are Rex guys and may not accept a new coach. You have to cut bad free agent signings like Chris Johnson and eat the money if needed, and you have to trade Geno or let him be your third string QB.

The Bears need a front office and coaching change too, but also probably a major house cleaning of players to change locker room dynamics. Jay Cutler is a loser and cannot lead a team. He has to go, along with Marshall, Bennett and others. Defensively, you need to start over completely.

 

[TDs3nOut]

It is hard to answer this question in the abstract. But if you are asking me about teams like, say, the Jets or Bears, I think you need to fire a lot of people, from the GM to the coach to key players. You need a culture change.

In the case of the Jets, the front office and coaching staff needs a complete house cleaning. You have to start from scratch on offense and probably on defense too because some of those guys are Rex guys and may not accept a new coach. You have to cut bad free agent signings like Chris Johnson and eat the money if needed, and you have to trade Geno or let him be your third string QB.

The Bears need a front office and coaching change too, but also probably a major house cleaning of players to change locker room dynamics. Jay Cutler is a loser and cannot lead a team. He has to go, along with Marshall, Bennett and others. Defensively, you need to start over completely.

Agreed. No one size fits all answer. Depends on what is already in place. The idea of building from inside out holds some appeal, but so too does having a good QB and players at skill positions who can make plays that change games.

 

[dkmightyhammer]

Get John Elway to run the show. Then sign Peyton Manning.

This seems awfully far fetched. Dream on buddy.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Yeah, my post was flippant and you raise some good points. No one knew whether or not Manning's health would allow him to even play again, let alone play at the level at which he has played.

Aside from that good fortune, however, I do think that Elway has done quite well in the draft and free agency so far.

I guess Xanders really deserves a lot of the credit when you scan the roster for the playmakers from the draft... V Miller, D. Thomas, and J. Thomas, Decker. Rahim Moore all have Xanders fingerprints on them...Where it looks like Elway has excelled is FA...rarely missing there, but he does have to key picks to his credit also...Hillman, B. Marshall.

 

[cdumler7]

I guess Xanders really deserves a lot of the credit when you scan the roster for the playmakers from the draft... V Miller, D. Thomas, and J. Thomas, Decker. Rahim Moore all have Xanders fingerprints on them...Where it looks like Elway has excelled is FA...rarely missing there, but he does have to key picks to his credit also...Hillman, B. Marshall.

Actually Miller, Thomas, and Moore were Elway's first year. Xanders was still a part of the team as Elway did lean a little on Xanders to show him the ropes but ultimately a lot of those guys were Elway's first draft where he really did set the tone for the team. Right now starters on the team that Elway has drafted are...

Hillman and Julius Thomas on offense. The rest of the offense was either past regime's or through FA such as D. Thomas and Clady being past regime's picks. The rest pretty much fall into the FA class. So offensively yes this team really was built quite a bit by Elway getting all the pieces in place for Manning to be successful.

Defensively though is where Elway and company have really shown up for the draft...So far they have drafted Sly Williams, Wolfe, Irving, Miller, Moore, Roby, and Harris (actually he was an UDFA that they picked up). B. Marshall was actually an UDFA that started in Jacksonville but was cut by them and picked up by the Broncos.

So at this point the Broncos have about half the starters through the draft and about half of them through FA or pickups along the way.

People do forget that Elway and the Broncos actually did win the AFC West the year before Manning came to town. So this roster already had quite a bit of talent and has only added to it. Yes Manning is a decent part of the success for the Broncos but there is a reason the Broncos are being considered the deepest and best roster in the NFL right now.

 

[cdumler7]

As for this scenario...I guess it would depend a little on when I came into the picture for the team...Does my team have the #1 pick overall? What kind of players are we looking at in the upcoming draft?


I mean if there is a player sitting there that is Andrew Luck and I have the top overall pick then of course I am going quarterback with my 1st pick. IF there is not that franchise quarterback though then it all depends on the players available. With this last draft I would probably be trying to do what Cleveland did in trading back. I don't really see anybody in that top-8 or so picks that really sticks out as the top overall guy. Clowney obviously looks like an amazing player but his red flags would keep me from taking him. There isn't a quarterback that I like and not really an OT that I would say is a must take. So trade back and pick up some value to add more possible talent to the roster.


So again just depends on the whole situation...Though coming in I would probably fire the GM and HC to start off with. Obviously at this point they have had some time to get things done and just haven't. I would then be willing to spend the big bucks to bring in a top-tier Head Coach and GM. Especially on the GM side of things. I would tell the HC that he has free reign to hire whoever he wants for Coordinators but make sure it is people you can trust to do their job and not need you to micro-manage.


Then I would work to get the scout team together with the GM and talk to the HC and coordinators of what kind of players personality wise and play wise fit their system. I would then hand that to the scouts and say go find these players. I think there are lots of great players in the NFL that just don't fit the systems they are in. You have 3-4 guys playing in the 4-3 and so on. You need players that fit what you are trying to do to maximize ability.


Then as another person had brought up I would spend the money to get a top of the line training facility and make sure I have top of the line trainers as I do think injuries are a huge issue that could be limited a bit by having a great training staff that gets the players ready. I would hire a nutritionist as well that is willing to keep the players in line with the right diet. I would never want to hear of a player coming in overweight to training camp.

 

[Clayton]

I think I would go in the opposite direction. Since defense wins championships, start building that young talented defense first. Let them come together and learn to be dominant. That way, since offense wins games, you have your defense set as you're still collecting better draft picks (not yet winning games) for your key offensive positions. Once the offense comes together to win you games, your defense is even better and wiser and you can go for the championship part.

I also would put a huge emphasis on building the lines before the skill positions. A great QB is nothing with a terrible offensive line.

Colts went the direction I suggested.

You NEED a good QB. Russell Wilson won a Super Bowl with a subpar/bad offensive line. Big Ben has won a Super Bowl with a subpar offensive line and run game. Kurt Warner was right there with him with a subpar offensive line.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

As for this scenario...I guess it would depend a little on when I came into the picture for the team...Does my team have the #1 pick overall? What kind of players are we looking at in the upcoming draft?


I mean if there is a player sitting there that is Andrew Luck and I have the top overall pick then of course I am going quarterback with my 1st pick. IF there is not that franchise quarterback though then it all depends on the players available. With this last draft I would probably be trying to do what Cleveland did in trading back. I don't really see anybody in that top-8 or so picks that really sticks out as the top overall guy.

Then I would work to get the scout team together with the GM and talk to the HC and coordinators of what kind of players personality wise and play wise fit their system. I would then hand that to the scouts and say go find these players. I think there are lots of great players in the NFL that just don't fit the systems they are in. You have 3-4 guys playing in the 4-3 and so on. You need players that fit what you are trying to do to maximize ability.


Then as another person had brought up I would spend the money to get a top of the line training facility and make sure I have top of the line trainers as I do think injuries are a huge issue that could be limited a bit by having a great training staff that gets the players ready.

Goes w/o saying the QB position is THE most important position on the field...but franchise type QBs are really few and far between...meaning not every team is going to have one, but you cannot have a QB that consistently loses games via turnovers, bad decisions etc....me...I want a Sr if at all possible that has started a least 2 seasons and played in a pro style offense, or something close to it. I don't want to spend 2 years teaching a runner that could pass in college to become a pass 1st QB.

Scouts...I want guys that either played football, or were coaches at lower levels of the game and I'm going to make sure these guy earn a decent living because I don't want a lot of turnover here. Also, they need to have a real connection with the OFC and DEF schemes...imo, these are the type of scouts that can find players that can help the team in the later rounds of the draft.

BPA...this can be a tricky area...that's how teams end of with players not well suited to their scheme....the 1st round I'm more of a need type because the players are there...even if it means you need to trade down to match up the value.

Finally...unless I'm at the very bottom of the draft...there are very few deals that would make me give up a 1st round pick. I think NE got cute thinking they could move back into the 2nd every year, and stock pile picks...the end result is I think the quality of player diminished a little from the SB winning teams.

 

[cdumler7]

I agree there are not many great looking quarterbacks in drafts. That is why I was asking about that 1st overall pick or where am I as an owner kind of thing? I just don't quite know the situation my team is in of was a middle of the pack team and just looking to get over the hump because then I might work harder to keep the core good players on the team together and just work to find a coach that can help maximize the talent that is already there. Or is this my team just finished with 1 or 2 wins because then that is a completely different situation where most likely my team is both deficient of good coaching, good personnel decisions, and talent on the team. I would also have to look of is my scouting team and draft picks actually doing anything for my team? If we have actually had some decent hits in the draft but just haven't been able to turn that into wins then I would try to work with the Scouting team already in place where if the draft has been bust after bust it is time to start completely over.


I would also point out it would be important to find a very competent Cap Savvy guy for the Front Office. This is a little known thing that the Broncos did but they hired a guy that was/is considered the best in the business and allowed him to really work the contract side of things. It is why so many were surprised the Broncos could bring in so many huge names in FA this past year yet still not put themselves in Cap Hell by the signings as they could cut them just about any year with little dead money to the contracts. Need a guy that can help get the Cap under control.


I also agree getting that pro ready quarterback would be huge. That is why you are seeing guys like RGIII really struggling in they still have the college way of things in mind. It takes a lot longer to coach that out of them and usually by then they are so banged up they aren't worth much. Luck is a guy coming from a pro ready system and it showed. It is why I also think a guy like Bridgewater will be successful in the NFL and I could not believe he fell as far as he did. So unless you have a veteran quarterback that a running quarterback can sit behind to learn for a couple of years you are right look for the guys who have played those pro systems that can step in and continue to play the same way.


My trade situation also wasn't one where I even traded out of the top-10. I was saying if there is no clear cut top player at a premium position at the top of the draft if that is where I am picking then trading back say 5-8 spots is worth getting the extra 1st and 2nd round picks in my opinion. You still get a premium player but more draft picks to work to build the team either this year or next year.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Scouting...funny story. When I 1st lived in ATL in the 80s for a short time...the Falcons were just god awful...and the Smith family I learned were just not football people employed key people who were not really football people. I further learned that up until they hired Dan Reeves...they really didn't even have their own full-time scouting personnel...they used 3rd party scouting services to supply the GM staff with info on players...other than the Grits Blitz teams of Jerry Glanville, it was no wonder they were mostly bad under the Rankin Smith ownership.

Now that wasn't that uncommon in that era, but most of the good teams were long since using their own scouts.

Cap specialist...good point...when you start entertaining FAs, having a good cap guy to spread that money around properly to where even if you have to release them at some point you're not getting killed with dead money.

Draft...I think the top 100 to 120 or so (top 4 rounds) players in the draft is where you typically find starters...5th/6th/7th round starters in the NFL happen, but they are more rare than common. I don't mind dropping a few spots to pick up another pick within that range in most drafts. I think the big boys that are starting material or soon to be are typically in the top 4 rounds and I wouldn't mind investing in a OL or DL/LB guy within my top 4 picks every year. For a long time the NYG used to stock pile OL.

QB...yep...I was really high on RG3 because I thought he had the smarts to make the adjustment, but would need a year to do so...I think the coaching staff was under pressure to win, and the best way to do that was to more or less let him run the OFC he was most accustomed to.

Agree on Bridgwater...funny how stuff can spiral out of sorts over what was essentially background noise...this guy went from possibly the 1st overall pick to nearly not even going in the 1st round

FA...DEN has hit a gold mind with Manning obviously but high level FAs are more rare than we think too..the mid level guys that fits schemes is where you want to spend money.

 

[mcnabb7542]

Id hire a scouting department focused on building talent from the lines out, on both sides of the ball. A general manger who understands that defense wins championships more than offense. And then Id get with my GM and other respected minds to find a coach who will be on the same page. Once the head coach is in place, he'd have the opportunity to find his own assistants and coordinators.(once Ive signed off on them.) IMO teams all too often try and force different mindsets into one system. Offense, defense and Special Teams need to all be be focused on winning in the same way. Best way to do that is by allowing a HC to create his own staff.

If I could deal skill position players for picks, I would. High priced FA RBs and WRs would not be happening. But I wouldn't release players all willy nilly. Gotta work with what you have until you have something better.

Then Id go about building a training facility which was fan friendly. No better way to build a strong fan base (other than winning) than getting kids involved at a young age. A place where people can spend an entire summer afternoon watching their favorite players do what they do. At a minimal fee.

One minute Smitty is leaving his gum in chicks and the next he is making outstanding comments like this!

 

[cdumler7]

Scouting...funny story. When I 1st lived in ATL in the 80s for a short time...the Falcons were just god awful...and the Smith family I learned were just not football people employed key people who were not really football people. I further learned that up until they hired Dan Reeves...they really didn't even have their own full-time scouting personnel...they used 3rd party scouting services to supply the GM staff with info on players...other than the Grits Blitz teams of Jerry Glanville, it was no wonder they were mostly bad under the Rankin Smith ownership.

Now that wasn't that uncommon in that era, but most of the good teams were long since using their own scouts.

Cap specialist...good point...when you start entertaining FAs, having a good cap guy to spread that money around properly to where even if you have to release them at some point you're not getting killed with dead money.

Draft...I think the top 100 to 120 or so (top 4 rounds) players in the draft is where you typically find starters...5th/6th/7th round starters in the NFL happen, but they are more rare than common. I don't mind dropping a few spots to pick up another pick within that range in most drafts. I think the big boys that are starting material or soon to be are typically in the top 4 rounds and I wouldn't mind investing in a OL or DL/LB guy within my top 4 picks every year. For a long time the NYG used to stock pile OL.

QB...yep...I was really high on RG3 because I thought he had the smarts to make the adjustment, but would need a year to do so...I think the coaching staff was under pressure to win, and the best way to do that was to more or less let him run the OFC he was most accustomed to.

Agree on Bridgwater...funny how stuff can spiral out of sorts over what was essentially background noise...this guy went from possibly the 1st overall pick to nearly not even going in the 1st round

FA...DEN has hit a gold mind with Manning obviously but high level FAs are more rare than we think too..the mid level guys that fits schemes is where you want to spend money.

With FA it has changed over the last few years. I think we are starting to see more big name guys come up for FA than ever before. Teams just aren't willing to put the money forward to sign guys long-term like they used to so more guys are let walk for the chance of a young cheap guy to step into his place. I think teams need to figure out though that you need a mix of young talented players but veterans who can help lead the team and really help mentor the younger players. Such as for the Broncos Champ Bailey was speaking this week that Chris Harris latched onto him back when Harris came into the league and just asked him question after question and would just watch him on every play he wasn't in to learn his techniques. Champ coached him up and now Harris at least according to PFF is the 2nd best Corner in the NFL. So again having those veterans makes a huge difference even if you have to pay a bit. I agree the midlevel FA can really help to fill out the roster and get some great depth but every once in a while it can be worth taking a chance as the Broncos did with Manning, Ware, Talib, and even Sanders (thanks for letting him go by the way...the guy has been nothing short of amazing for the Broncos).

I also agree on the draft in it is great to find those diamonds in the rough in the later rounds but a majority of the roster should be built in those first 4-rounds. If you draft poorly in those there is a good chance your team is heading downhill quickly unless you have a franchise quarterback to cover up some of that. It is why you see teams like Indy crash and burn so much when Manning went down in they had not drafted well and they had not coached up the players they did have. They relied too much on Manning to succeed.

 

[DaBoltsNIsles]

It's all about finding the right people to build the team. The Draft is so important. Look at the horrible job Idzik has done with the Jets. Then compare it to the job Telesco has done in SD. I know Telesco inherited a better QB situation, but A.J. Smith either traded away or allowed virtually all of the Chargers good players walk as free agents. No Chargers fan thought they'd make the playoffs at the start of last season. If they say they did I'd like to know how they figured it would happen. I certainly didn't think it would.

 

[LPinSLC]

Depends on talent at hand. I'd favor youth with upside vs. proven aging veterans. On offense I'd start with the trenches. Defense I'd have a slightly different approach. I'd target studs up the middle. Pass rusher, MLB, and a stud safety and build outward.

 

[HizzleRocker]

1) I think if you are in rebuild mode - then something has gone wrong with the GM and he needs to go.
2) If bringing in a new GM, it is almost a must that he gets to pick his new coach - so the coach has to go.
3) I would evaluate and if need be invest in strength and conditioning and scouting.
4) Priorities for personnel, in order:

a) Offensive Line. I'm not about to let a likely new young QB get rattled physically and mentally right off the bat. Plus, I don't think you can get a true evaluation on a young QB if he's getting immediately hammered right after the snap. A good o-line will help your QB, allow you to run the ball, and make you ask less of your QB and allow him to develop.
b) Quarterback. But let me stress, if in full rebuild mode - I would not reach on this. I would not use a high draft pick unless I felt certain about the kid. I would use any draft pick available though, if I was sure.
c) Offensive Weapons/Playmakers - Yep, I'm going all offense first, in an offensive league. I want a full slew of weapons. Guys who can run, catch, red zone players, route runners, and special teams heroes.
d) Defense.


Here's my thought. If I'm in rebuild mode, I'm not winning a championship anytime soon. It will take time. But imagine a team with the following type players: Russell Wilson, Jamal Charles, Percy Harvin, Kelvin Benjamin, Wes Welker type, Julius Thomas, and a stout Offensive Line.

We may not stop anybody on defense, but we will score on everyone. We will win games, be fun to play for, be fun to watch, sell tickets, and then be able to build up the defense through free agency.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

With FA it has changed over the last few years. I think we are starting to see more big name guys come up for FA than ever before. Teams just aren't willing to put the money forward to sign guys long-term like they used to so more guys are let walk for the chance of a young cheap guy to step into his place. I think teams need to figure out though that you need a mix of young talented players but veterans who can help lead the team and really help mentor the younger players. Such as for the Broncos Champ Bailey was speaking this week that Chris Harris latched onto him back when Harris came into the league and just asked him question after question and would just watch him on every play he wasn't in to learn his techniques. Champ coached him up and now Harris at least according to PFF is the 2nd best Corner in the NFL. So again having those veterans makes a huge difference even if you have to pay a bit. I agree the midlevel FA can really help to fill out the roster and get some great depth but every once in a while it can be worth taking a chance as the Broncos did with Manning, Ware, Talib, and even Sanders (thanks for letting him go by the way...the guy has been nothing short of amazing for the Broncos).

I also agree on the draft in it is great to find those diamonds in the rough in the later rounds but a majority of the roster should be built in those first 4-rounds. If you draft poorly in those there is a good chance your team is heading downhill quickly unless you have a franchise quarterback to cover up some of that. It is why you see teams like Indy crash and burn so much when Manning went down in they had not drafted well and they had not coached up the players they did have. They relied too much on Manning to succeed.

FA...yeah, the cap space that these big name FA are taking up really do cause teams to pause...especially for a DEF player. Watt is proving to be the exception...he will mostly likely be a 3 NFL contract guy if he wants to be. But I look at a guy like Suh, and McCoy...are they really $100 mil (or there about) players? Even a great players, these days you really have to understand they will not be worth the money later in the contract so you're better off front end loading their 2nd contract so you're not killing the cap when you have to let them go.

Sanders...you're welcome! He is having a pretty good year out there...happy for him...he did finally produce in his last yr in PIT, didn't tank it like some UFA to be tend to do. PIT had essentially drafted his replacement last year (Wheaton) and while he has struggled a little, he's on track to produce the same numbers that Sanders did LY while making $600k guaranteed vs $6 mil....something PIT really needed after shedding most of those big contracts for aging players.

IND...I really think the draft works like the owners intended for it to in terms of being a component of league parity. The Colts were fortunate to be really bad and get Luck...or they could've had a 4 or 5 year stretch of non-playoff seasons...Teams like NE that have sustained a long run of success picking at the bottom of the draft have to be commended even though part of that is a by product of playing in the AFCE.

PIT...Colbert (GM) has taken some heat on his drafts, but again, when you're picking in the high 20s for 3 or 4 years in a row, it catches up to you...I started looking at the other players on the board during some of his "down draft" years and not many of those players have down much better than the guys he drafted. I still think he missed on some guys, but so I've kind of backed off. The last 2 years with better position, his picks look a lot better.

 

[cdumler7]

I definitely understand why you guys got rid of Sanders. He just didn't quite fit that offense as well as others like Antonio Brown. He fits a certain system like that of a timing and precision type offense that the Broncos run. He has helped bring a nice speed element to the Broncos that they just have been lacking so I view this as one of those win-win situations for both teams. Pitt didn't pay big money and is getting production from a cheaper option while the Broncos got a guy that really fits the offense well and gives Peyton a great weapon.


You are right drafting towards the end of the draft really does make it difficult. Not only are you always missing out on the premium players at the top but every round it is the same of missing out on the top guys left usually. So the teams that can continue to have success even though they are picking late most years definitely deserve some respect like that of the Patriots. Not easy to stay at the top. Now given having a top-tier quarterback every year does cover up a lot of the issues on the team. It is why teams are so willing to do just about anything to find that franchise guy.


I also agree the spending in FA especially on the defensive side of the field is hard to justify. Watt has shown he is worth every penny at this point. I would say there are maybe 4-5 defensive players that are worth spending what it takes to keep around. I'm hoping the Broncos are willing to pony up when Von Miller needs to get paid as that guy is a one man wrecking ball that can completely change a game on one play. Thankfully the Broncos have him locked up for this year and next and if need be can use the Franchise Tag after that as they work on a long-term deal.


The money though is why I do think the middle FA class is actually the forgotten group in the NFL. They are the guys who can produce but do they really produce that much more than say a Draft pick that a team brings in that is 1/10th of the cost even of a middle-tier FA? They seem to be the ones that have the toughest time finding work. If it were me I would rather build my team on those middle FA's though and build great depth throughout the roster instead of just giving money to a few. Which hey goes against what the Broncos have done with Ware, Talib, and Manning taking up a big chunk of the Cap space. So far that is working out well for them but it does help the Broncos have drafted very well to build great depth and quality starters throughout the roster.