Why's everyone so down on Kaep?

[MHSL82]

Are you kidding me with this stuff? I chose the Chargers game because that was the ONLY decent team the Niners played in the 2nd half of the season (unless you count the Seahwaks in SF, which I don't). And he played pathetically. He played poorly against the Lions too. How does that change anything?



Alex played in only 11 games last year. You're citing stats that don't exist (unless you're purposely over-lapping games). Also, those ratings are about 10 points off. His rating for the season was 82.1.

He's counting games that he didn't start and the first four games were huge in bringing down his passer rating to 82.1. It was a major experience for Alex and he played better after that point and the opponents were easier, as you stated.

As for the ratings - It's simple math, add up after the Eagles (including Eagles) game, subtract it from season totals and do the calculations. It's about the same as this year. No one's disputing he's better as a player this year or that his season rating was 82.1. Including the Chargers bad game, his rating last year Eagles game and on, was around 94.7. The first four was so bad that the total rating was 82.1.

So - you're not wrong, the significant improvement can be seen as this year, but the light went off a little last year. It's more of an opinion thing of stats vs. look. Since the first five games (including the Eagles game - the only overlap) were the most important and against the better teams, they made last year a bad year and may be more significant than the last 7, but Alex did start playing better after the exchange (not those stats include before the exchange too, to avoid cherry picking, in your words, more).

 

[Crimsoncrew]

There is some limitation to Alex's game, but not much. He's doing everything: short passes, intermediate passes, back shoulder fades, roll outs, scrambling for yardage...

The only thing really missing is the deep over the top passes. That's fine, maybe he does not have the arm strength for that.

I'm not sure we have the receivers for those passes, at least with Edwards seemingly still not quite at 100%. Davis and Ginn have the speed, but it's even odds (at best) that they'll catch a ball that hits their hands downfield. With Alex making good decisions, we can chip away at teams with a more traditional west coast attack and scheme in some bigger plays the way we have to the past couple weeks.

 

[NinerSickness]

Ok let's make this really simple. After the Eagles game:

*At home against Oakland: 16 / 33 198 yards 2TD 49ers win 17 to 9. Not a very good game offensively at AT HOME, but a win.

*At Carolina he was 9 / 19 129 yards & 1 TD in a 20-23 loss. Pathetic.

* 49ers VS Denver in London: Alex was benched.
*Benched again
*Benched again
*Benched again
*Benched again

*At Seattle Alex was 17 / 27 255 3TDs. Great game. First even good game of the friggn' season for him.

* At Chargers: 19 / 29 165 yards, 0 TDs. 7 Points scored all game. Pathetic.

*At Rams: BENCHED AGAIN!!! After Troy Smith sucks it up Alex goes 10 / 15 for 120 whole yards and 0 TDs in garbage time to wrap up the loss. Hall of fame worthy.

Last game at home against Cardinals: Meaningless game for both teams; Alex goes 15 / 29 276 yards & 3 TDs. Great meaningless game.

How....

....THE HELLLLLLL... is that "Starting to turn it around"????????????

 

[Ray_Dogg]

11 TDs. 3 INTs. One game with a bad QB rating. Cherry picking is fun.

 

[MHSL82]

Ok let's make this really simple. After the Eagles game:

*At home against Oakland: 16 / 33 198 yards 2TD 49ers win 17 to 9. Not a very good game offensively at AT HOME, but a win.

*At Carolina he was 9 / 19 129 yards & 1 TD in a 20-23 loss. Pathetic.

* 49ers VS Denver in London: Alex was benched.
*Benched again
*Benched again
*Benched again
*Benched again

*At Seattle Alex was 17 / 27 255 3TDs. Great game. First even good game of the friggn' season for him.

* At Chargers: 19 / 29 165 yards, 0 TDs. 7 Points scored all game. Pathetic.

*At Rams: BENCHED AGAIN!!! After Troy Smith sucks it up Alex goes 10 / 15 for 120 whole yards and 0 TDs in garbage time to wrap up the loss. Hall of fame worthy.

Last game at home against Cardinals: Meaningless game for both teams; Alex goes 15 / 29 276 yards & 3 TDs. Great meaningless game.

How....

....THE HELLLLLLL... is that "Starting to turn it around"????????????

Statistically the Carolina game wasn't great, but we would likely have won that if not for him not playing the second half due to his injury. Extrapolating could lead to better numbers and a win (I know it could lead to more INTs, too) Despite the numbers not being jaw-dropping, the fact that you mentioned the outcome as impliedly indicated the pathetic play without mentioning the injury and Carr's affect on the game, makes your argument more of a stretch.

He was not benched for the Denver game, that was the game immediately after his injury. Saying he was benched this game is reaching.

First St. Louis game - he didn't play because he was injured, not benched. Not reaching this time, but reports did indicate it was an injury related where Singletary didn't have to choose QBs yet.

Green Bay - you could argue he was benched because he was cleared to play and reportedly available. Plus, Troy played a great game against St. Louis.

Tampa Bay - Benched under the same criteria as the Green Bay game - except the part about Troy.

San Diego - Agree

Second St. Louis game - I put this on Singletary, he was clueless - he should never have put Alex back in for the Arizona game if he wasn't going to ride him out. Alex did play better and took over a lost game - he was not good enough to overcome Troy's bad play. Note: I'm not saying he's good, but I wouldn't pin this against him - Neutral as he equaled and passed Troy's numbers with a fumble and no INT.

Arizona - Agree, but you do know the crux of the other's opinions are statistical, not overall. It seems you are trying to fight fire with fire (stats) when you could win with water (strength of opponent, etc.) and your comments about the Carolina game and the benching lacks a full account. It just sounds slighted to me, greedy. You could win stating both sides.

 

[Arete Tzu]

Ok let's make this really simple. After the Eagles game:

*At home against Oakland: 16 / 33 198 yards 2TD 49ers win 17 to 9. Not a very good game offensively at AT HOME, but a win.

*At Carolina he was 9 / 19 129 yards & 1 TD in a 20-23 loss. Pathetic.

* 49ers VS Denver in London: Alex was benched.
*Benched again
*Benched again
*Benched again
*Benched again

*At Seattle Alex was 17 / 27 255 3TDs. Great game. First even good game of the friggn' season for him.

* At Chargers: 19 / 29 165 yards, 0 TDs. 7 Points scored all game. Pathetic.

*At Rams: BENCHED AGAIN!!! After Troy Smith sucks it up Alex goes 10 / 15 for 120 whole yards and 0 TDs in garbage time to wrap up the loss. Hall of fame worthy.

Last game at home against Cardinals: Meaningless game for both teams; Alex goes 15 / 29 276 yards & 3 TDs. Great meaningless game.

How....

....THE HELLLLLLL... is that "Starting to turn it around"????????????

I don't think the benchings prove to much. Sings indecision and incompetence was the biggest factor. Troy also had one great game that brought him some more time, before it was made painfully clear that it was a fluke, and Smith had the injury to deal with as well.

Using the "he only played part of some games" argument doesn't help your case IMO. if he got similar stats, while only playing portions of some of those games, doesn't that help the other argument being made against you?

He did play stronger pass defenses to start this year though, still averages out pretty close though.

2010
1st, 2nd, 11th, 14th, 19th, 23rd and 27th pass Ds.

2011
1st, 4th, 10th, 11th,13th 19th, and 28th

^does the rank at the time those games where played matter? I just went with their overall rank to date.

 

[Arete Tzu]

I think it's undeniable Smith has shown some improvement, like I've said in earlier posts I only covered the statistical side of it, and we all know there is more to it than stats.

But I think the story of Harbaugh improving Smith, has been embellished a bit by the media, because it's an easy story to sell. New coach, hated QB coming back to town, and suddenly they are winning when they couldn't in the past... it's easy to sensationalize.

But if we look at it honest, Alex isn't being asked to do anymore than he did in the past. In most games he has only been asked to not hurt us. A big difference is we have competent coaches, and some roster upgrades to help us pull off the wins this year. I think winning is helping people feel better, but I hope we aren't blinded by it as well.

 

[deep9er]

I have no problem with Kaep. If a QB with more potential became available, I'd draft him and let those 2 compete. but that's only because I'm not entirely sold on him either, and think QB is that important that i'd bring in two if I had too.

But I'm still excited to see what he can do, we haven't had a real chance to evaluate him. Preseason was weird this year, and his time against the bucs he didn't do much, so I just don't know.

Maybe if we make the playoffs he will get to start the final game of the season. I am happy that Smith has given us time to sit him and develop him properly.

agree.

maybe Tolzien can compete too, who knows? but agree IF a real good prospect is available, add him to the off season competition.

 

[Flyingiguana]

You're cherry picking. Of course if, for some reason, you throw out 5 horrible performances of the... what... 13 starts he made?... then he might statistically look decent. But you can't! The best team Alex beat all year was the Raiders. The ONLY team he beat on the road was the lowly Cardinals.

He was bad. You can't make an intelligent arguement to the contrary. Look at his performance against the Chargers week 15. He was a hot poop sandwhich.

it isn't cherry picking if there was a point in time where u can see a major change in his play.

after the eagles game he cut down on the dumb mistakes and took what was there. this year he's playing with more confidence and command over the offense.

 

[tallglassofwater007]

Who cares when he turned it around. He's playing pretty good right now. The whole team sucked last year including the coaching staff. Yeah, we had some guys like J. Smith, Willis, Spikes etc who played well individually... but the team as a whole was shit.

This year, with a lot of the same guys, the team is playing really good football. I would say the whole team turned it around, not just Alex. I credit a lot of this to Harbaugh, but a lot of it to the players themselves as well. They bought in and put in the work. Alex Smith deserves a lot of credit for his play this season. Harbaugh didn't magically do anything. He is just playing to his QB's strengths.

 

[Ray_Dogg]

Back to Kap...

I'm wondering at some point maybe even in the playoffs if we start throwing in CK and Smith on the field together and run some creative stuff. I get the feeling we have a ton of stuff under wraps right now. Surely they have drawn up a way to utilize Kap's size and speed in other ways than throwing the football.

 

[deep9er]

Back to Kap...

I'm wondering at some point maybe even in the playoffs if we start throwing in CK and Smith on the field together and run some creative stuff. I get the feeling we have a ton of stuff under wraps right now. Surely they have drawn up a way to utilize Kap's size and speed in other ways than throwing the football.

IMO no, we have enough talent to mix it up right now. as it stands now, we don't give enough reps to everyone.

don't need to risk our QB's getting tackled.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

I don't think the benchings prove to much. Sings indecision and incompetence was the biggest factor. Troy also had one great game that brought him some more time, before it was made painfully clear that it was a fluke, and Smith had the injury to deal with as well.

Using the "he only played part of some games" argument doesn't help your case IMO. if he got similar stats, while only playing portions of some of those games, doesn't that help the other argument being made against you?

He did play stronger pass defenses to start this year though, still averages out pretty close though.

2010
1st, 2nd, 11th, 14th, 19th, 23rd and 27th pass Ds.

2011
1st, 4th, 10th, 11th,13th 19th, and 28th

^does the rank at the time those games where played matter? I just went with their overall rank to date.

Not to mention "benching" is a bit generous given his injury. It's not like Peyton Manning has been benched, or Tom Brady was benched in 2008. Maybe you can make that argument for the one or two games when Smith was healthy and didn't get the start. He was benched for the St. Louis game, and that proved to be a disaster.

 

[NinerSickness]

it isn't cherry picking if there was a point in time where u can see a major change in his play.

after the eagles game he cut down on the dumb mistakes and took what was there. this year he's playing with more confidence and command over the offense.

He was still terrible. This is the lowest standard for "started to turn it around" I've ever seen.

 

[MHSL82]

He was still terrible. This is the lowest standard for "started to turn it around" I've ever seen.

I'll accept that he wasn't good as it looks, based upon his opponents, and when his best and worst game came, but he wasn't terrible. It seems that you are embellishing, but that's your style so it's fine with me. My style is to point out when I think people are exaggerating to make their point sound stronger. Your opinion is fine but you are pushing it to say it was terrible, IMO.

Eagles game forward
111/191 58.1% 1450 yards 207.1 Y/G 94.8 passer rating

Not including Eagles game
86/152 56.6% 1151 yards 190.1 Y/G 95.6 passer rating

I only do the split between including and not including the Eagles game because there was some ambiguity in whether it counted in the original statement. Note: I did not split the Eagles game to before and after the Singletary exchange, where that would be appropriate as a turning point. He had two TDs and one INT to finish the game, but that would be easily dismissed as cherry picking despite the whole point being that that moment started it.

So it's not great, but it's not terrible. The numbers can be better than feel, but it wasn't terrible. Considering who we played it couldn't have been terrible. Even bad Alex would play well against the Cardinals - which goes toward your assessment that it wasn't a starting point or it not being great, but not toward it being terrible.

 

[clyde_carbon]

I want Kap under center next year.

 

[Flyingiguana]

I want Kap under center next year.

so you'd be fine going back to 4-6 wins?

 

[SY8goat]

so you'd be fine going back to 4-6 wins?

Easy there.

 

[Flyingiguana]

Easy there.

2nd year qb from a pistol offense? if things start off bad like they usually do with young qb's it could easily compound into a bad season. i'd rather bring in josh johnson and let kap sit and continue to develop without throwing the guy to the wolves.

 

[CalamityX11]

so you'd be fine going back to 4-6 wins?

How does that work?