Why not bring back Manny Lawson?

[Mozart'sGhost]

No, your assertion that price doesn't matter "if you can play" is foolish.

LOL! Somebody take the shovel away from this guy.

 

[Ray_Dogg]

Why not do both?

I wouldn't mind a big FA pass rusher, Manny and drafting an OLB (obviously not in the first round if 2 have already signed though).

Are you saying Manny isn't even worth a roster spot?

He's not worth a roster spot, exactly. Way too similar to Parys, doesn't fill the need of a third down pass rusher, and we need every penny we can to re-sign guys and upgrade the WRs. Wasting 3 mill on Lawson would be dumb. I also wasn't part of the 80% that wanted to keep him. I was strongly in support of letting him walk.

 

[jayviabay]

Where is Brooks, Mario Williams, etc. on this rating chart? And Manny is still the 3rd overall rated OLB on this chart. And coverage is one of Manny's strong suits. I'm not really impressed by this chart.

I agreed that coverage was his strong suit. Im not really impressed by it either just thought it was amusing that they said he graded negatively.

I agree with the point that you and sickness are making about lawson but i think we need a more valid reason to give him a 3yr deal. Honestly the problem i have with manny is the fact he doesnt play with aggression like the rest of our linebackers or any solid backer in the league. he plays soft like kwame harris use to play IMO. I go to games and i went just to watch him every snap that he played and the guy just doesnt have the fire you want your outside backer to have.

I think it was Ray Dogg who said it best on the ESPN boards, TEs, RBs, QBs, dont go to sleep on saturday worried about facing him on sunday. no coach talks about him standing out on film when they scouted the niners....

 

[NinerSickness]

he plays soft like kwame harris use to play IMO.

I don't agree with that at all. I think the only real weakness in his game is he doesn't excel rushing the passer.

 

[deep9er]

ideally we draft an every down OLB (eventually every down, not necessarily this season), but with Aldon Smith and Paris Haralson starting, we'll likely add a vet pass rusher.

someone like a Laboy who replaces Haralson on 3rd and longs. obviously, he won't be a Ware, Wakeman, Suggs, etc., but someone who's better than Haralson. this vet shouldn't cost like a starting OLB.

 

[NinerSickness]

I'd be extatic if Nick Perry drops to 30, but I'd be more than happy with Curry if he's there in round 2 even if they have to trade up a little.

 

[RedneckNiner]

Manny does something very well that the niners had big trouble with this year. Cover Tight ends..

 

[maniax]

Ok Parys Haralson is making $2.7M this year and it's his last year.

If Manny is not worth $3M/year then NO WAY is Haralson worth $2.7M this year.

What I would do is see if I could get Manny for about $2.5M/year (you never know), and then adios Haralson. Go with 2 rookies behind Aldon and Manny.

 

[ChrisPozz]

Manny does something very well that the niners had big trouble with this year. Cover Tight ends..

I'm intrigued by this. At times, yes, the numbers show the 49ers may have struggled against TEs this year:

Dallas TEs (mostly Witten) - 8 for 110
Cleveland TEs - 4 for 84
Pittsburgh TEs (mostly Miller) - 5 for 82
vs. New Orleans (playoffs)(mostly Graham) - 6 for 113, 2 TDs

Those were probably the worst games statistically. Some might say to throw Detroit in there because of the 51 yards and 1 TD but that was on 9 catches.

But then I turn to Football Outsiders and their formula and the 49ers came out as the 6th best defense at defending the TE this year so that makes me wonder if they were that bad. My eyes would say again that yes, at times this year the 49ers struggled defending the TE spot but that FO number really sticks in my head when you use it to compare to the rest of the NFL.

 

[RedneckNiner]

That is interesting Pozz, glad you pointed that out. Looking at it through stats an hard data does make the reality more pleasant than my own eye test. And I admit most of my perception was Witten running wild and free all game, as well as Graham.

 

[ChrisPozz]

Ideally one would like to sit with somebody in-the-know and watch the tape and see it from a coaches tape perspective, what it looked like from game to game. Obviously with that way you'd have a much better idea what things looked like because just looking at the production in terms of the numbers doesn't tell the full story. As a fan obviously I can't do that so I have to leave it up in the air more than I would like.

 

[numone9er]

I'm intrigued by this. At times, yes, the numbers show the 49ers may have struggled against TEs this year:

Dallas TEs (mostly Witten) - 8 for 110
Cleveland TEs - 4 for 84
Pittsburgh TEs (mostly Miller) - 5 for 82
vs. New Orleans (playoffs)(mostly Graham) - 6 for 113, 2 TDs

Those were probably the worst games statistically. Some might say to throw Detroit in there because of the 51 yards and 1 TD but that was on 9 catches.

But then I turn to Football Outsiders and their formula and the 49ers came out as the 6th best defense at defending the TE this year so that makes me wonder if they were that bad. My eyes would say again that yes, at times this year the 49ers struggled defending the TE spot but that FO number really sticks in my head when you use it to compare to the rest of the NFL.

Thanks for that pozz. So, if Brooks really is looking for 8 mil. would be better off signing Manny and then drafting a guy like Chandler Jones, Nick Perry, or even Curry to have him rotate with Manny on 3rd downs? That way we get to save a little money and get a guy who can hold the edge and cover (in Manny) and have a guy who can come in and rush the passer possibly better than Brooks last year.

 

[Flyingiguana]

ideally we draft an every down OLB (eventually every down, not necessarily this season), but with Aldon Smith and Paris Haralson starting, we'll likely add a vet pass rusher.

someone like a Laboy who replaces Haralson on 3rd and longs. obviously, he won't be a Ware, Wakeman, Suggs, etc., but someone who's better than Haralson. this vet shouldn't cost like a starting OLB.

i'd rather just sign lawson who should be cheap and let him do what brooks did. he's much better in coverage, but won't get the few sacks brooks does.

but on passing downs, aldon is basically a defensive lineman so lawson won't be rushing much

 

[Flyingiguana]

Thanks for that pozz. So, if Brooks really is looking for 8 mil. would be better off signing Manny and then drafting a guy like Chandler Jones, Nick Perry, or even Curry to have him rotate with Manny on 3rd downs? That way we get to save a little money and get a guy who can hold the edge and cover (in Manny) and have a guy who can come in and rush the passer possibly better than Brooks last year.

let lawson cover on 3rd downs and send willis after the qb!

 

[numone9er]

let lawson cover on 3rd downs and send willis after the qb!

I think it actually would help Willis. It would free him up to be able to do some other things.

 

[deep9er]

i'd rather just sign lawson who should be cheap and let him do what brooks did. he's much better in coverage, but won't get the few sacks brooks does.

but on passing downs, aldon is basically a defensive lineman so lawson won't be rushing much

so who would start in your scenario, Lawson (do what Brooks did) and Haralson, where Aldon still comes in on passing downs?

why do you want to add an OLB who's good in coverage, but can't rush? isn't the ability to pressure key in today's NFL?

wouldn't it make more sense to start Aldon and Haralson, then have a pass rush specialist come in for Haralson? here you still add only one OLB, but he's better suited to apply pressure.

btw - Brooks had seven sacks which isn't "a few". plus as you noted above, Lawson won't even be rushing much?

 

[Ray_Dogg]

Haralson still has two years left on his deal.

 

[wartyOne]

I don't agree with that at all. I think the only real weakness in his game is he doesn't excel rushing the passer.

Yet, you're advocating bringing him in to be a surprise pass rusher? Am I missing something here?

If I'm GM, and it's pretty obvious I'm not, I wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole. And I was one of the ones salivating at the prospect of being able to draft him in 06.

Fact is, he has about the same amount of sacks in six years as a starter that Aldon Smith (does it drive anybody else crazy that we have so many Smiths on this team?) had in 16 games as a rotational player. Pass. Outright. Save the money for somebody who can do what he's hired to do.

I don't know what this is useful for, but I enjoy it:

 

[numone9er]

Yet, you're advocating bringing him in to be a surprise pass rusher? Am I missing something here?

If I'm GM, and it's pretty obvious I'm not, I wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole. And I was one of the ones salivating at the prospect of being able to draft him in 06.

Fact is, he has about the same amount of sacks in six years as a starter that Aldon Smith (does it drive anybody else crazy that we have so many Smiths on this team?) had in 16 games as a rotational player. Pass. Outright. Save the money for somebody who can do what he's hired to do.

I don't know what this is useful for, but I enjoy it:

lol

Fair enough. I still think he provides depth if nothing else. If we can't bring back Brooks than he becomes more valuable for what he can do against the rush and in coverage (not as a sack artist).

Always enjoy your posts warty. Wish there were more of them.

 

[NinerSickness]

Yet, you're advocating bringing him in to be a surprise pass rusher? Am I missing something here?

He could blitz on very rare occasions. The fact that the occasions would be rare would probably help him because of the element of surprise.

But mainly I'd like to see him back because Brooks may cost too much. I've probably been the biggest Brooks fan this offseason. I'v been saying since the SB that he;s more important to the team than any other FA.

Manny would be able to be a #3 OLB for cheap. That's why I'd want him back. He's solid in every aspect except rushing the passer, but he's not inept at that either. He got some decent pressure in 2009.

The guy I really want as the starting OLB is Nick Perry, but I doubt he'll be there. 2nd on my list would be Robert Mathis.

I'd LOVE to get Vinny Curry in the 2nd round after trading up. He came in with good size at the combine, and he has a natural knack for getting to the QB.